General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Go ahead, your allowed to use it now! Rss Feed  
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2014-12-10 6:58 AM
in reply to: k9car363

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Champion
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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Go ahead, your allowed to use it now!
Originally posted by k9car363

No, putting in lots of yards with paddles is a good way to develop shoulder problems.  I have the swimmers I work with do 1 set a week with paddles and bands around the ankles (preferably without a buoy), maybe a second set every other week.  I use paddles as a stroke technique tool.  I have them do a pull set, something like 6-8 x 100 at [threshold pace + 3 sec] with 20 sec rest.  The focus is on proper technique, including leg position.  By slowing down a bit during the pull set, you have the time to experience the feedback you are getting from the paddles.  Really concentrate on what the hands are doing throughout the entire stroke: entry, through the catch, the pull, ALL the way to full extension, then the recovery.  Immediately after the pull set, take the paddles off and do 2 x 100 and use the same technique you were just using with the paddles.  It will feel awkward because you no longer have the resistance from the paddles but force yourself to use the same technique as when the paddles were on.  Then a bit of rest and on the remainder of your workout.

Do that for a month and I think you will be pleasantly surprised with your technique.



I assume you are also recommending smaller paddles and having the athletes only use the strap over the middle finger as well? I also prefer paddles with lots of holes so that you can still feel the water when swimming with paddles as I find it helps when the paddles come off.

Shane


2014-12-10 7:06 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Master
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Subject: RE: Go ahead, your allowed to use it now!
I usually do this myself, alternating pull and swim sets to work on technique, and also use the paddles for building strength. Never more than about 25% of a workout, usually less. Not sure what this means for someone like me who isn't an adult-onset swimmer. I have decent, though surely not perfect, technique (no matter what I do, it takes me 22-24 strokes to swim 25m, so not textbook style!). I swim a bit faster without the pullbuoy than with it (on most days, at least. Wetsuit doesn't make much difference in my times, maybe because all my non-wetsuit swims have been in saltwater.

I've heard everything from never use pool toys, just swim, to swim more yards, to swim less and faster, and now use the pull buoy all the time. To be honest, the only thing I've ever noticed about swim training is that as long as I'm consistent, it really doesn't matter what I do--mostly threshold, mostly distance, mostly speed, more pulling, less pulling, even swimming with a master's group and doing a ton of stroke/IM work is okay--I'm always about the same speed. My swimming is probably the most consistent year-round of my three sports (because it has to be--our pool access can be a use it or lose it situation), so maybe that's why.
2014-12-10 8:27 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Official BT Coach
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Subject: RE: Go ahead, your allowed to use it now!

Originally posted by gsmacleod

I assume you are also recommending smaller paddles and having the athletes only use the strap over the middle finger as well? I also prefer paddles with lots of holes so that you can still feel the water when swimming with paddles as I find it helps when the paddles come off. Shane

Shane,

Yes, I suggest the smallest paddles that will cover the hand.  I'm not so concerned about the holes.  My first thought on the holes is that they would lessen the resistance and thereby lessen the feedback the paddles provide.  Now I need to go buy a set of paddles with holes in them so that I know first hand what the difference is.

2014-12-10 8:48 AM
in reply to: k9car363

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Champion
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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Go ahead, your allowed to use it now!
Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by gsmacleod

I assume you are also recommending smaller paddles and having the athletes only use the strap over the middle finger as well? I also prefer paddles with lots of holes so that you can still feel the water when swimming with paddles as I find it helps when the paddles come off. Shane

Shane,

Yes, I suggest the smallest paddles that will cover the hand.  I'm not so concerned about the holes.  My first thought on the holes is that they would lessen the resistance and thereby lessen the feedback the paddles provide.  Now I need to go buy a set of paddles with holes in them so that I know first hand what the difference is.



They don't need to be huge holes but I've used some that are pretty solid (forget which brand - whatever was at the pool) and I own some Speedo ones with some holes in the palm so you can feel the water pretty well and there are also some holds that align with finger placement. It may not actually be the case but I find this helps when transitioning from wearing paddles to not wearing them.

Shane
2014-12-10 10:38 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Master
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Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: Go ahead, your allowed to use it now!
Originally posted by gsmacleod

I assume you are also recommending smaller paddles and having the athletes only use the strap over the middle finger as well? I also prefer paddles with lots of holes so that you can still feel the water when swimming with paddles as I find it helps when the paddles come off.

Shane


Shane, points out a excellent point about the single strap. The single strap will help promote good hand position in the catch and recovery. If those that are using paddles, try the single strap and see. Especially if the recovery is not clean the paddle will kick out.


My paddles are flat, 7" wide by 9" long and with holes. Not for the beginner. I also feel the flat paddle is the way to go because you really have to control the pitch for a correct pull as the press is exerted evenly across the paddle. Small concave paddles are good for the beginner as the pressure is primarily focused in the center.

2014-12-10 1:15 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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2014-12-10 1:39 PM
in reply to: Fred D

Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: Go ahead, your allowed to use it now!

This is what my pool has - no straps!

2014-12-10 2:21 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
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Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: Go ahead, your allowed to use it now!
Originally posted by axteraa

This is what my pool has - no straps!




Strapless................NICE!
2014-12-10 2:22 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Coach
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Stairway to Seven
Subject: RE: Go ahead, your allowed to use it now!
Originally posted by axteraa

This is what my pool has - no straps!



Those are helpful for so many different things
2014-12-11 1:30 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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2014-12-11 2:03 PM
in reply to: Fred D

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penticton
Subject: RE: Go ahead, your allowed to use it now!
I m a big user of the Pull Buoy with my squad of athletes. Joel Filliol does a very similar use. That is from beginners to world class athletes.


Here's a few reason i like the pull buoys:


- a newish swimmer that struggle with good body position. ( yes, we need to adress body position first) It become a lot easier for me to teach them a high elbow and strong catch with a pull buoy without them sinking. I allow them to focus on one element and not worrie about staying afloat. They are already ahead of the game by at least learning something new and a proper catch. It dosnt eliminate the body position issue but we are still moving forward in the process. MY goal is still to acheive good body position but in the back of my mind, i know this point is taken care of itself when they put on the wetsuit. I see it as very easy to overwhelmed a swimmer with technical elements. I try to reduce the mental/technical load for them. One element at the time


- I do have some very accomplish athletes, 9:15-9:45 ironman athlete that are very poor at swimming. They dislike swimming with all there heart. They will skip swim practice if any reason comes up. I find those training aid help me create a more ''fun'' environement where those swimmers experience more success and come back more often and swim more. The swim more is the key part. I get more consistancy, more volume, more load.


-We just finish a hard 4h ride and i want to get a great 2000m of main set out of them. I get them in the pool for a nice ''exemple'' 10X200m on 20 sec rest hold best average with pull buoy. They learn to swim when tired, they enjoy it...they can manage it....i get to put more volume into them. I would not get them in the pool at the first place after such long ride if it wasnt from some aid. They would simply go home. That is the reality of many...they dont like swimming.


-Relaxation: swimming with a pull buoey help teaching non swimmer to relax....feel good, fluid etc instead of been caugh into a fight against the elements. I see some positive out of it.


-Specificity: i would say 80-90% of the races for most of my athletes are wetsuit legal. pull buoy does a good job at putting you into a similar position/effect. As there reality is, they will be swimming with wetsuit in races, i train them to be at there best for those events. Yes, there is a downfall to this when we cant wear a wetsuit.....(hawaii) but most of the time, if i get them to the kona start line....i did most of my work.


For the professional, strong swimmers and accplish top age group: my main use of the PB is to get more out of them after hard bike or run sessions....


For weaker swimmers.... i see it as a specific training tools. we go for the 90% races knowing we are expose to a 10% more problematic event. But to get them in the pool more often, enjoying it.,.relaxing etc...usually offset that small issue.






2014-12-12 2:49 AM
in reply to: Beer League Champ

Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: Go ahead, your allowed to use it now!

Originally posted by Beer League Champ

I use just a strap around my middle finger to hold my paddle in place. I assume that the Finnis are just held via the thumb being in the hole?

Yup, your hand can be completely relaxed wearing them and they stay in place.

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