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2015-03-25 10:19 AM
in reply to: GeauxHard

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Originally posted by GeauxHard

So besides a protein supplement, does anyone else take anything else in the supplement department? Creatine, BCAA's, beta alanine? I personally have cycled off my creatine and BCAA's for the time being, but may reintroduce them to my training regimen soon, still taking a GOOD multivitamin pack though.

Seems as though it's hard to find supplement info that multisport athletes use..


I have picked back up on the creatine but I don't see the need for BCAA's if you are taking enough protein. All BCAA's are is partial proteins where whey is the whole protein (this is from our nationalists who also works for ECU, grad of ETSU). If you are not getting enough protein then maybe they will help, but if your buying them instead why not just get the whole protein. I use magnesium, calcium/D, fish oil, and of course a multi vitamin. I actually take the multi vit (with calcium and D) in morning then calcium/D later because I had a stress facture last year.


2015-03-25 10:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business

Originally posted by GeauxHard So besides a protein supplement, does anyone else take anything else in the supplement department? Creatine, BCAA's, beta alanine? I personally have cycled off my creatine and BCAA's for the time being, but may reintroduce them to my training regimen soon, still taking a GOOD multivitamin pack though. Seems as though it's hard to find supplement info that multisport athletes use..

Creatine doesn't have much use to a triathlete. The recommended dose of Creatine on most products (usually 5g 3 times per day) causes muscles to retain water and become more 'bulgy' without enhancing performance (at least in terms of endurance). 2.5g per day, however, has been shown to not to increase weight or have any significant water retention but increase short term high intensity output (better 5 second sprint power). Because of that, I usually start dosing myself with 2.5g per day about a week before a big bike race. In general though, and for purely endurance activity like triathlons or running events, I don't bother with it. I infrequently take a multivitamin but the science on their effectiveness is inconclusive. Most studies show very poor absorption rates from multivitamins (vitamins in general) so I'm just not sure if they have any real benefit.



Edited by adempsey10 2015-03-25 10:24 AM
2015-03-25 10:51 AM
in reply to: #5075170

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Who is on Garmin connect?
Connect with me on there!(fifthcircle or Kurt Fossen)

I will add my approval of the Garmin stuff. I got the fenix 3 over the 920 simply for the aesthetics of an everyday watch. I'm loving it so far! Just got a software update, and now have music controls (Bluetooth to phone). I added the speed & cadence sensors to my bike, and love that there is just one sensor on the chain stay, no wires, and nothing on the bars now.
2015-03-25 10:52 AM
in reply to: adempsey10

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
The multivitamins I take are designed around absorption to retain your RDVs, instead of just containing your RDVs which as you said has been shown to be ineffective. Some of the amounts of vitamins contained are way over the RDV, and again this is based on the absorption.

For example the Vitamin E for a day's worth of vitamins (4 tabs) might be 1000% RDV. This does not mean you're getting 10x your RDV, what it means is you need to ingest 10x your RDV to absorb your RDV.

Certain vitamins are fat soluble, some are water soluble. So the vitamins are taken with food 2x a day.

It's not perfect, the absorptions are obviously different based on lots of factors, and even with all that, trying to package that many ingredients into an easy tablet form is not always possible, so you're not able to get everything out of them. It's just a supplement to a proper diet.

For minerals and athletes the multi definitely needs to be supplemented - we sweat too many minerals away!

Also, I wouldn't place any performance benefit based on meeting my RDVs for vitamins and minerals. It's more a matter of health maintenance.
2015-03-25 10:58 AM
in reply to: firebert

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business

Originally posted by firebert The multivitamins I take are designed around absorption to retain your RDVs, instead of just containing your RDVs which as you said has been shown to be ineffective. Some of the amounts of vitamins contained are way over the RDV, and again this is based on the absorption. For example the Vitamin E for a day's worth of vitamins (4 tabs) might be 1000% RDV. This does not mean you're getting 10x your RDV, what it means is you need to ingest 10x your RDV to absorb your RDV. Certain vitamins are fat soluble, some are water soluble. So the vitamins are taken with food 2x a day. It's not perfect, the absorptions are obviously different based on lots of factors, and even with all that, trying to package that many ingredients into an easy tablet form is not always possible, so you're not able to get everything out of them. It's just a supplement to a proper diet. For minerals and athletes the multi definitely needs to be supplemented - we sweat too many minerals away! Also, I wouldn't place any performance benefit based on meeting my RDVs for vitamins and minerals. It's more a matter of health maintenance.

 

There are ways to get minerals and vitamins through regular diet though and I don't think most supplements are necessary if you're savvy about your food choices. 

2015-03-25 11:07 AM
in reply to: #5103395

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
All supplements....

I'm learning to eat better, and starting really think the supplement game is just crap you shouldn't be putting in your nutrition hole.

Eat real food! The less processed the better!

I'm think I'm going to start taking a whole wheat pb&j sandwich, and or hard boiled eggs for post weight training days. If I don't get protein soon after weights, I'm hungry all day!

I'm also a big fan of Larabars.
Ingredients for peanut butter cookie larabar: Peanuts, dates, sea salt.


2015-03-25 11:21 AM
in reply to: fifthcircle

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
I suppose I should add - my diet is as whole/non-processed as is reasonable without going completely overboard. We cook most of our meals ourselves from whole ingredients. Our grocery shopping is almost entirely at Trader Joes so we know what we're getting. I'm definitely eating healthy (with a once/week break for restaurant food ). Given that, I don't really know if I'm getting, say, my manganese for the day, or my vitamin B6, without a bunch of research to figure out what foods are going to get me what vitamins/minerals. And then daily tracking of all of it to be sure I actually got them today. Ya know? The supplements are at worst a waste of money. But at least the one I am taking is research based and not just 'look we managed to cram 100% of a bunch of things into a convenient one a day even though you won't absorb most of it!'. It's quite possible that I'm getting what I need from my diet and don't need the supplement, but this way I'm more sure of where I stand.
2015-03-25 11:30 AM
in reply to: firebert

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business

Originally posted by firebert I suppose I should add - my diet is as whole/non-processed as is reasonable without going completely overboard. We cook most of our meals ourselves from whole ingredients. Our grocery shopping is almost entirely at Trader Joes so we know what we're getting. I'm definitely eating healthy (with a once/week break for restaurant food ). Given that, I don't really know if I'm getting, say, my manganese for the day, or my vitamin B6, without a bunch of research to figure out what foods are going to get me what vitamins/minerals. And then daily tracking of all of it to be sure I actually got them today. Ya know? The supplements are at worst a waste of money. But at least the one I am taking is research based and not just 'look we managed to cram 100% of a bunch of things into a convenient one a day even though you won't absorb most of it!'. It's quite possible that I'm getting what I need from my diet and don't need the supplement, but this way I'm more sure of where I stand.

Which multi-vitamin do you use? 

2015-03-25 11:37 AM
in reply to: #5103409

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
I read that magnesium is best absorbed through the skin. So, I try to once a week or so take a hot bath with Epsom salts. It is wonderful for sore muscles and/ PMS ;-)
2015-03-25 1:04 PM
in reply to: adempsey10

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Originally posted by adempsey10

Which multi-vitamin do you use? 




It's called perfect family:

http://www.iherb.com/Super-Nutrition-Perfect-Family-Multivitamin-Mi...
2015-03-25 1:54 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business

Originally posted by firebert
Originally posted by adempsey10

Which multi-vitamin do you use? 

It's called perfect family: http://www.iherb.com/Super-Nutrition-Perfect-Family-Multivitamin-Mi...

hmm... I'm still skeptical. I get the principle of having 1000% RDV because of how much is actually absorbed. The problem is, absorbed or not, the kidneys and liver still have to process it and a lot of the vitamins and minerals in multivitamins, while useful in the properly absorbed amounts, are really hard on the kidneys and liver in those quantities. If you do a brief search on some of the vitamins and minerals the body needs, the RDV values, and what common foods offer in terms of those, you'll probably find you're already getting more than enough. Take manganese for example, You get your RDV for manganese from 50g of sunflower seeds. 2 pieces of whole wheat bread is more than half the RDV for manganese. 67g of kale is over half the RDV. 85% of RDV comes from 1 cup of cooked spinach. And there a plethora of other typically consumed foods that contain enough manganese for the whole family. 

Multivitamins are a billion dollar business so it's easy to see why so many push their 'benefits' but numerous studies have shown that they really do nothing at all and can actually have negative effects on the body. 



Edited by adempsey10 2015-03-25 1:57 PM


2015-03-25 3:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Bad news: I've been benched for 2-3 months by my podiatrist due to reoccurring plantar faciitis and new nerve damage from pushing myself too hard and not listening to my body. Started oral prednisone today for inflammation, and fingers crossed I can avoid the cortisone shots. Back to 5x daily stretches and aqua jogging in the pool!

My new plan is 6-7 days a week of swimming/aqua jogging, yoga, and spinning for two months, and then get re-evaluated and hopefully start incorporating short runs back in. Found a tri in DC in September, so I'm staying focused on that as well as getting my swim times faster for Master's.

Fingers crossed I can be patient and kick it this time.

Edited by whichwayisdown 2015-03-25 3:19 PM
2015-03-25 3:53 PM
in reply to: #5075170

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
What a bummer Mel! I'm sorry. Do you have any aqua bikes in your area where you can skip the running? I've seen more and more crop up around here where it's an option. Or even just an open water swim? Just to do something fun.
2015-03-25 3:57 PM
in reply to: whichwayisdown

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
That's terrible news! Gotta take care of the body though. Then you can come back stronger and ready to run.
2015-03-25 5:40 PM
in reply to: Moonrocket


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Colorado Springs, Colorado
Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Sorry to hear that Mel :/ hope you recover fast!

Got back in the pool for the first time this morning...had a pretty good workout, did 4100ish yds, focused a lot on getting my form and feel for the water back.

Little photo from behind the blocks..



Laid down for a nap for a little bit, and the ups man woke me up...my trainer is here!



Feels a bit..gritty? Maybe I've just gotta get used to it...definitely would like to get a riser block for it..adjusted the seat a bit more, but my stem still feels way to far out...need to get my fit done for sure..
2015-03-25 7:47 PM
in reply to: fifthcircle

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, Vermont
Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Originally posted by fifthcircle

Who is on Garmin connect?
Connect with me on there!(fifthcircle or Kurt Fossen)

I will add my approval of the Garmin stuff. I got the fenix 3 over the 920 simply for the aesthetics of an everyday watch. I'm loving it so far! Just got a software update, and now have music controls (Bluetooth to phone). I added the speed & cadence sensors to my bike, and love that there is just one sensor on the chain stay, no wires, and nothing on the bars now.


I am! I'll look for you!


2015-03-25 7:49 PM
in reply to: Moonrocket

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, Vermont
Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Originally posted by Moonrocket

I read that magnesium is best absorbed through the skin. So, I try to once a week or so take a hot bath with Epsom salts. It is wonderful for sore muscles and/ PMS ;-)


I need to do this.
2015-03-25 7:51 PM
in reply to: Moonrocket

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, Vermont
Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Originally posted by Moonrocket

What a bummer Mel! I'm sorry. Do you have any aqua bikes in your area where you can skip the running? I've seen more and more crop up around here where it's an option. Or even just an open water swim? Just to do something fun.


Yes, Mel! That is what I'm doing! See if there's an Aquabike!
That stinks about your foot but it's great you're looking ahead and also focusing on what you can do and not what you can't. Good for you. Hoping for quick healing for you!
2015-03-25 7:53 PM
in reply to: whichwayisdown

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Originally posted by whichwayisdown

Bad news: I've been benched for 2-3 months by my podiatrist due to reoccurring plantar faciitis and new nerve damage from pushing myself too hard and not listening to my body. Started oral prednisone today for inflammation, and fingers crossed I can avoid the cortisone shots. Back to 5x daily stretches and aqua jogging in the pool!

My new plan is 6-7 days a week of swimming/aqua jogging, yoga, and spinning for two months, and then get re-evaluated and hopefully start incorporating short runs back in. Found a tri in DC in September, so I'm staying focused on that as well as getting my swim times faster for Master's.

Fingers crossed I can be patient and kick it this time.


So sorry to hear it. You have such a great attitude.

Are you already going to Masters Swim? It's such a great workout. I wish I could fit it into my schedule. I think you'll gain a lot of fitness if you can go regularly.
2015-03-25 8:00 PM
in reply to: chayes

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Question of the day: Who worries about cadence when running? Pros/ Cons?
I had never thought about it, but have randomly read a few things that made me start to think about it. On my tempo run Sunday I counted steps and got up to like 85 if I concentrated- I nailed the paces but was trashed for my long run the next day and cut it short. But I don't know if that was a function of higher cadence trashing me, having slept poorly the night before, or some other factor.
Today on my random mid-week run I started counting and found I naturally sped way up. My heart rate sped up too but my legs didn't hurt as bad. I alternated one minute high cadence with one minute "normal" running to keep my heart rate in check, somewhat.
Is this something I should keep practicing? Marathon is ~ 6 weeks away, obviously I don't want to injure myself but if I can have a faster or more enjoyable marathon, obviously I want that.
2015-03-25 8:02 PM
in reply to: chayes

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
mel- sorry about the injury. prayer for a speedy recovery

jenn- you can add me b2b14 (garmin connect)


2015-03-25 8:03 PM
in reply to: chayes

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Also, I ran in warm (60*) sunshine today. Oh my goodness. It was so pleasant! I know the 10-day forecast is mostly 30s and 40s. I cannot WAIT to have warm weather to train in!
2015-03-25 8:46 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business

Originally posted by chayes Question of the day: Who worries about cadence when running? Pros/ Cons? I had never thought about it, but have randomly read a few things that made me start to think about it. On my tempo run Sunday I counted steps and got up to like 85 if I concentrated- I nailed the paces but was trashed for my long run the next day and cut it short. But I don't know if that was a function of higher cadence trashing me, having slept poorly the night before, or some other factor. Today on my random mid-week run I started counting and found I naturally sped way up. My heart rate sped up too but my legs didn't hurt as bad. I alternated one minute high cadence with one minute "normal" running to keep my heart rate in check, somewhat. Is this something I should keep practicing? Marathon is ~ 6 weeks away, obviously I don't want to injure myself but if I can have a faster or more enjoyable marathon, obviously I want that.

Cadence is pretty significant in my opinion. I find that I don't run a certain cadence that I injure myself more frequently. About 180Bpm (90 per leg) is the recommended cadence. Higher cadence is actually better for your joints because by virtue of having to take more steps you must decrease stride length which lowers the impact on your body for each stride.

 

Speaking of HR, have you ever done a LTHR test for running? If you have, you should base your HR on what your LTHR pace is. There are zones for pace just like HR. Pace is often considered to be the running equivalent of power (in cycling). If you increase cadence your HR will increase slightly for the same effort. The same effect occurs in cycling as well. If you're using pace zones along with HR you can get a better grasp on how hard you're pushing. What I mean to say is if your HR jumps up when you increase cadence (but not necessarily pace) then that's okay. Don't worry about trying to lower your HR back down. Most studies show that a higher cadence run (or bike) increases HR but lactate build up in the muscles decreases. This why you noticed that you were able to run faster with lower perceived exertion. Keep practicing higher pace and slowly work towards doing it all the time. You'll probably find that that alone will increase your LTHR slightly and allow you to run a little faster in your marathons. 



Edited by adempsey10 2015-03-25 8:49 PM
2015-03-25 9:30 PM
in reply to: #5075170

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Scott and Fifth, I sent you requests from Garmin Connect.
2015-03-25 9:33 PM
in reply to: adempsey10

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Quakertown, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Open For Business
Check-in: Workout 3 for the week. 1600 in the pool. My normal day off ended up getting cancelled since my buddies bailed on me today. My daughter then drug me to the YMCA for a workout, not that I wouldn't have gone anyway...

So 15 minutes into my workout the "Conditioning Class" started with a bunch of triathletes. See what I'm missing on my Wednesday day off? Other than watching, I also talked to the coach and found out that their exercise plans are laminated in a book available to everyone. Score! Even though I was into my workout, I was watching to see how I would have done compared to those folks. Sometimes you want a benchmark. I would have been just fine. Not the fastest but I would have held my own. Good to know....

Weight Loss I've lost a decent amount of weight in the past, though I'm doing it way more intelligently this time. I have identified two benchmarks for me that I thought others might find interesting.

- Lose 15 pounds and people will start to comment about how you'll looking thinner. Specifically in the face.
- Lose ANOTHER 15 pounds and then some people take you aside and ask if you're healthy and doing ok. 2 people were worried I had cancer the last time I lost weight.

I'm not sure what it is with the 15 pound increments and my body, but I'm looking forward to telling them "Nope, I've been training for a triathlon since January" when the cancer discussions come again. That's a much better answer anyway.
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