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Lets talk about polarized training for IM
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 2014-12-19 11:16 PM |
 643   |  Subject: Lets talk about polarized training for IMThis topic is discussing polarized training and to hopefully help come up with training plans with a HIM and IM focus. Maybe someone has trained like this before. If so, chime in. Suggested workouts are encouraged! So the idea of polarized training has really got my attention. More so, since my running hasn't really improved much the past 2 years. My race times are better but not by as much as I like. I've been doing a tiny amount of research and, at least for running, one place recommends: 75% easy runs, 10% tempo, and 15% hard runs. For biking?...I don't know. I assume something close. Here's an example for me: The Run My long Z2 runs (HR based) are 7:00-8:00/mile depending on my fitness, weather, and how I'm feeling. With polarized, I'm going to push that up to 9:00 or 9:30/mile. I'm still trying to figure out if I should end this with a ~20-30 minute tempo with surges to get some of my hard time in. Tonight I ran for an hour and had tried to do (3 mins @ 10mph, 2 min RI, 2 mins @ 11mph, 3min RI) x 4. This was a little harder than I thought and I couldn't get it all. I'm running about 4.5 hours/week right now and following the 15% rule, I'd need about 40 minute of hard intervals. This took care about 1/2 that so my other running day needs hard intervals too. The Bike This was seems easier to plan for with a power meter but I still don't know which percentages I should aim for. A focus of Z2 and Z5 work is what I'm going to aim for. I created a workout, which I doubt I can do yet, which is 4x8min Z5. Long rides will mainly be Z2 with maybe some random Z5 work and Z3 with surges as well. Here's my question though: Will doing this hurt my endurance and should I add more Z3 into the program the closer I get to my HIM or IM or should I stay the course? Looking at my bike data from last year, I did a lot of Z4/Z5 work in the early/pre-season. I had a higher FTP and my HR was lower at the same effort as I got more into the season and focused only on Z2-Z4 workouts for my IM. My HR slowly increased throughout the months for the same wattage and my FTP slowly went down (although not by much). Discuss! Lets keep this clean and fun. |
| 2014-12-20 9:08 AM in reply to: Blastman |
Extreme Veteran 1986  Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Lets talk about polarized training for IM I posted this over on ST a month or two ago. I got some good feedback but nothing saying the schedule or structure was the problem. Been tinkering with training plan setup for 2015. I want to move away from the threshold training regimen that I've been using for years and try a more polarized training approach. My performance was stagnant this year and I got into a bad fatigue rut as I just wasn't doing enough easy or recovery. I'd like to try something different and see how it goes. Move up to M45-49 in 2015 so recovery is becoming more and more important. |
| 2014-12-20 9:16 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Lets talk about polarized training for IM Originally posted by BlastmanHere's my question though: Will doing this hurt my endurance and should I add more Z3 into the program the closer I get to my HIM or IM or should I stay the course? Looking at my bike data from last year, I did a lot of Z4/Z5 work in the early/pre-season. I had a higher FTP and my HR was lower at the same effort as I got more into the season and focused only on Z2-Z4 workouts for my IM. My HR slowly increased throughout the months for the same wattage and my FTP slowly went down (although not by much). Discuss! Lets keep this clean and fun. Yes, move to more race specific workouts the closer the race. I think the HIM distance is the hardest distance for a polarized concept. For an IM, the easy workouts are already kind of race specific. For sprint and oly, the hard workouts are already race specific. HIM pacing falls way more into the sweet spot/mid-zone levels that the polarized concept looks to avoid. That's why you need to gravitate towards HIM pacing specificity. If you strictly followed the polarized concept and only did your bike workouts at 65% or 110% that 56 mile ride at 80-85% is going to probably kill you as you haven't spent enough time training to ride that distance at that intensity. Edited by GMAN 19030 2014-12-20 9:16 AM |
| 2014-12-20 9:33 AM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Lets talk about polarized training for IM Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Originally posted by BlastmanHere's my question though: Will doing this hurt my endurance and should I add more Z3 into the program the closer I get to my HIM or IM or should I stay the course? Looking at my bike data from last year, I did a lot of Z4/Z5 work in the early/pre-season. I had a higher FTP and my HR was lower at the same effort as I got more into the season and focused only on Z2-Z4 workouts for my IM. My HR slowly increased throughout the months for the same wattage and my FTP slowly went down (although not by much). Discuss! Lets keep this clean and fun. Yes, move to more race specific workouts the closer the race. I think the HIM distance is the hardest distance for a polarized concept. For an IM, the easy workouts are already kind of race specific. For sprint and oly, the hard workouts are already race specific. HIM pacing falls way more into the sweet spot/mid-zone levels that the polarized concept looks to avoid. That's why you need to gravitate towards HIM pacing specificity. If you strictly followed the polarized concept and only did your bike workouts at 65% or 110% that 56 mile ride at 80-85% is going to probably kill you as you haven't spent enough time training to ride that distance at that intensity. Would consider taking a look at how much race pacing one might need in training for the HIM. More so as volume goes up, it might not really go that far from polarized. The ratios between the zones will likely change, but the middle zone may still not dominate time. Maybe consider looking at the ratios over a period of at least a month. |
| 2014-12-20 9:39 AM in reply to: Blastman |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Lets talk about polarized training for IM Originally posted by Blastman 0 or 9:30/mile. I'm still trying to figure out if I should end this with a ~20-30 minute tempo with surges to get some of my hard time in. Tonight I ran for an hour and had tried to do (3 mins @ 10mph, 2 min RI, 2 mins @ 11mph, 3min RI) x 4. This was a little harder than I thought and I couldn't get it all. I'm running about 4.5 hours/week right now and following the 15% rule, I'd need about 40 minute of hard intervals. This took care about 1/2 that so my other running day needs hard intervals too. There isn't anything on what you're trying to base any of those run paces off of. |
| 2014-12-20 10:00 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Lets talk about polarized training for IM Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Originally posted by BlastmanHere's my question though: Will doing this hurt my endurance and should I add more Z3 into the program the closer I get to my HIM or IM or should I stay the course? Looking at my bike data from last year, I did a lot of Z4/Z5 work in the early/pre-season. I had a higher FTP and my HR was lower at the same effort as I got more into the season and focused only on Z2-Z4 workouts for my IM. My HR slowly increased throughout the months for the same wattage and my FTP slowly went down (although not by much). Discuss! Lets keep this clean and fun. Yes, move to more race specific workouts the closer the race. I think the HIM distance is the hardest distance for a polarized concept. For an IM, the easy workouts are already kind of race specific. For sprint and oly, the hard workouts are already race specific. HIM pacing falls way more into the sweet spot/mid-zone levels that the polarized concept looks to avoid. That's why you need to gravitate towards HIM pacing specificity. If you strictly followed the polarized concept and only did your bike workouts at 65% or 110% that 56 mile ride at 80-85% is going to probably kill you as you haven't spent enough time training to ride that distance at that intensity. Would consider taking a look at how much race pacing one might need in training for the HIM. More so as volume goes up, it might not really go that far from polarized. The ratios between the zones will likely change, but the middle zone may still not dominate time. Maybe consider looking at the ratios over a period of at least a month. Yes, it's going to be a little bit of lab rat/guinea pig trial and error thing at the beginning. |
| 2014-12-20 4:59 PM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
| 643 | Subject: RE: Lets talk about polarized training for IM Well today I did my long run. I went out for 2 hours and decided to go even slower. Normally I try to stay at 155bpm on my long slow runs (mid/upper Z2). Today I decided to go 130-135, which got me to 9:00-9:30/mile range. Tomorrow I plan meet up with a friend for a trainer session. I think the videos he has planned have a lot of SS and Z5 intervals, so not completely what I'm looking for but I should be more rested going into it than I normally am. Thinking it's 2-3 hours long total. I want to try this out but I know I'll need to switch up my schedule. It seems almost impossible to have easy and then hard days for a triathlete training all 3 sports. I have issues moving my long run until it's warmer. I don't mind running in the dark but it needs to be warmer and less windy than it is now. It was upper 30's today and drizzling today and I was frozen! Being wet doesn't help and going slower so I don't warm up at all doesn't help either. I want to try this for 2-3 months or so and then do some testing to see where I am. My FTP is about 20watts lower than what it was a few months ago. My runner seems to be about on par to where I know I could knock out a decent HM but not a full marathon right now. |
| 2014-12-21 7:28 AM in reply to: Blastman |
Champion 6503 NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: Lets talk about polarized training for IM Is polarized training just a way of saying, "Make sure your long / slow training is slow and make sure your speed training is actually fast?" |
| 2014-12-21 7:29 AM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Champion 6503 NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: Lets talk about polarized training for IM Originally posted by GMAN 19030 I posted this over on ST a month or two ago. I got some good feedback but nothing saying the schedule or structure was the problem. Been tinkering with training plan setup for 2015. I want to move away from the threshold training regimen that I've been using for years and try a more polarized training approach. My performance was stagnant this year and I got into a bad fatigue rut as I just wasn't doing enough easy or recovery. I'd like to try something different and see how it goes. Move up to M45-49 in 2015 so recovery is becoming more and more important. No rest days? Do you have a job or other responsibilities? |
| 2014-12-21 8:06 AM in reply to: 0 |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Lets talk about polarized training for IM Originally posted by pga_mike Is polarized training just a way of saying, "Make sure your long / slow training is slow and make sure your speed training is actually fast?" It adds in about how easy and how fast. People can run easier and faster on their respective days, but not necessarily with enough separation. Or perhaps more importantly, above & below some physiological marker points. Originally posted by pga_mike No rest days? Do you have a job or other responsibilities? Complete rest days don't always need to be scheduled in. Some athletes can handle, and do better with, some lighter activity instead of being completely off. Also, some prefer to schedule in workouts every day, and then take the day off when they need it every few weeks or longer. Life happens and things can't always be controlled to happen on the scheduled rest day. Edited by brigby1 2014-12-21 8:10 AM |
| 2014-12-21 8:33 AM in reply to: pga_mike |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Lets talk about polarized training for IM Originally posted by pga_mike Originally posted by GMAN 19030 I posted this over on ST a month or two ago. I got some good feedback but nothing saying the schedule or structure was the problem. Been tinkering with training plan setup for 2015. I want to move away from the threshold training regimen that I've been using for years and try a more polarized training approach. My performance was stagnant this year and I got into a bad fatigue rut as I just wasn't doing enough easy or recovery. I'd like to try something different and see how it goes. Move up to M45-49 in 2015 so recovery is becoming more and more important. No rest days? Do you have a job or other responsibilities? The easy days are the rest/recovery days. There is no need for a rest day if you have a well thought out plan that factors in recovery. Like Ben also mentioned... if I need to take a day off I will take a day off. Yes, 50 hour a week job, wife and kids. Finding time to workout 10-15 hours a week really isn't that hard. |
| 2014-12-21 7:24 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 643 | Subject: RE: Lets talk about polarized training for IM I agree. I don't really do rest days except when my job has me working stupid hours randomly. My "rest day" is normally the day I spent an hour at the gym lifting weights (upper, lower, and core workouts). This month I started doing 30 minutes of super easy running (6-6.5mph) at the end of lifting weight to help up my run volume. Anyway...I thought I'd post this up here as something to look at since a lot of people aren't posting anything: 2014 zone workouts This doesn't include all my workouts since sometimes I'm on the spin bike (winter) 1 day/week since I like to run afterwards. I have some injuries and races in there (also there was a period where I was just burned out and slacked for almost a month...) but it's pretty clear that I spend a lot of time in the yellow zone (I tried to color code my workouts like the 3 zone video). In July I went tempo crazy before my HIM. I did well in it but wonder if tried a little more polarized if it would have been better. This is the first time I really looked at this chart (Gold Cheetah). I plan to try more Z2/Z5 biking this week and see how I like it. I know it won't be fun. My FTP is currently 15 watts below last year's best and I have a very hard time holding anything above lower Z3 for a while (e.g., there's no way I could ever hold my FTP for an hour). This something I'm hoping a mix up in my workouts will change. For the record, I did almost all sweet spot training and hardly any FTP or above training after March. March is also when I peaked my FTP for the year. Almost a pattern if more people experienced the same thing. Still worried about lowering Z3 as I get close toHIM/IM but the elites seem like this kept this workout schedule their entire timing time for marathons. I assume it would carry over to biking as well. Edited by Blastman 2014-12-21 7:26 PM |
| 2014-12-21 8:46 PM in reply to: Blastman |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Lets talk about polarized training for IM Originally posted by Blastman Anyway...I thought I'd post this up here as something to look at since a lot of people aren't posting anything: 2014 zone workouts So how will the actual workouts change to fit the new concepts? I'm still not sure where the pace selection came from for a hard run posted earlier. |
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