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2015-01-02 6:10 PM

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Subject: Sufferfest Suggestion
I have a friend coming over to try a Sufferfest video this weekend. He is looking for a challenge and wants the hardest one. I can't decide which one will be the most punishing. All of them to me are brutal. This guy is an elite biker and can take anything thrown at him. We are both doing it on wahoo kickers. any suggestions? P.S. Tour of Suferlandria is starting soon!!!


2015-01-02 6:24 PM
in reply to: Jayabusa

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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion
It really depends on how hard you do them (one person's "7" might be someone else's "9") but I'll suggest the Blender, mostly because of its length. Once you get done the warmup, the long interval session really gets you working, and you're nearly 40 minutes in when the "pain shakes" section starts up, which is brutal short high intensity intervals, and when you finally finish that you've still got a bunch of time trial efforts to finish off the hour and forty minute session. It's an ordeal.

The Revolver is pretty nasty too.

Haven't done Fight Club or the Wretched, but they look pretty nasty too.
2015-01-02 6:34 PM
in reply to: Jayabusa

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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion

Find out what his strengths are and do the opposite.

2015-01-02 7:29 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion
Originally posted by brigby1

Find out what his strengths are and do the opposite.



haha I like your thinking. This guy is an 11 x Ironman and is a beast on the bike. Whatever his ftp is I am going to jack it up on trainer road.
2015-01-02 7:33 PM
in reply to: SenatorClayDavis

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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion
I guess I should have mention we are using trainer road program. If he is honest about his ftp. he will be in pain. Trainer road will communicate with the wahoo and he will be stuck with whatever it gives him. You can not take it easy with the combo unless you lower your ftp.
2015-01-03 7:47 AM
in reply to: #5078948

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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion
Definitely (for me) Revolver, but Blender is a close second. It's not Sufferfest, but if you/he has already done those two a bunch, two "nice" changes of pace are Trainerroad's Disaster and Rockhouse. 4:10 and 3:00 long and absolutely soul crushing...


2015-01-03 10:24 AM
in reply to: danimal123

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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion
Originally posted by danimal123

Definitely (for me) Revolver, but Blender is a close second. It's not Sufferfest, but if you/he has already done those two a bunch, two "nice" changes of pace are Trainerroad's Disaster and Rockhouse. 4:10 and 3:00 long and absolutely soul crushing...


Very difficult question, because everyone responds differently to the different types of workouts. Personally, Blender is actually among the "easiest" of the workouts for me. There's lots of variety so maybe my body is have to enjoy a bit of recovery. Revolver obviously hurts. AVDP and HHNF are probably the ones I like the least.

The thing is, if you're using a KickR and he is honest about his FTP, there's no possible way for him to not be in pain on really any of the Sufferefest videos, as riding above threshold for extended periods of time hurts. If it doesn't hurt, than it's not threshold and you're doing it wrong. No one is so "bad " that they can ride above their limit without tremendous discomfort.
2015-01-03 10:33 AM
in reply to: Jayabusa


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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion

Originally posted by Jayabusa I guess I should have mention we are using trainer road program. If he is honest about his ftp. he will be in pain. Trainer road will communicate with the wahoo and he will be stuck with whatever it gives him. You can not take it easy with the combo unless you lower your ftp.

 

I will add the caveat that someone using a Kickr will find it significantly easier to complete the Sufferfest than someone doing it legitimately on a fluid trainer. 

 

I know it seems like the Kickr would make it harder in that you HAVE to hit the %FTP power targets, but that doesn't include the full picture. 

 

Here is why the Kickr will be easier (signifcantly so in my case):

- Slower rampup time to target power on intervals. Even if it's a 10sec ramp, if you're doing 30-40 interval accelerations over the course of an hour, you've just added almost 30 x 10sec of subtarget power to your workout, which is a lot. On a fluid trainer, you'll hit that target power in <3 seconds most of the time.

- On the Kickr, your average power per interval will always be LOWER than the target interval power because of the slow rampup. So if the target is 200 watts, and you take 10sec to ramp up on a Kickr, even if you hold 200 watts for the rest of it, you'll end up averaging <200watts by a small amount. On a fluid trainer, if you're monitoring your avg power, what usually happens is that you fluctuate enough above/below that you end up averaging the TRUE full 200 watts by the end of it. (At least I do almost every time.)

- Smoother power riding on the kickr with less power spikes = less matches burned

- Less mental fatigue on the Kickr for hitting those targets since it's controlled for you

 

I know it sounds like I'm just nitpicking, but these things actually make a very big difference given that the Sufferfest pushes you to the edge of your ability if done at the prescribed FTP, and thus even tiny variances in power/efficiency can mean the difference between surviving the workout or having to bail out early.

 

I used to think ISLAGIATT was absolutely impossible on a fluid trainer, and this was with true, multi-tested FTP (2 x 20) tests AND over 7hrs/week on the bike so I was in very good shape for my ability. I was surprised when on slowtwitch, many people said 'it wasn't that bad.' I then got a Kickr, retested my power on it a few times, and tried it on a Kickr, and lo and behold, it was hard, but totally survivable and indeed ''not that bad.' I had to go recheck all the numbers because I was worried that my Kickr was broken, but the reasons above were likely why it felt significantly easier on the Kickr than fluid trainer.

 

(I still would not go back to a fluid trainer now that I have a Kickr!)

 

 

2015-01-03 12:06 PM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion
Like the suggestion of "do the opposite" - GvA would be quite happy with your attitude.

I've always liked The Hunted, Downward Spiral, Fight Club, Revolver if you want to keep it to 1:00 or less.
2015-01-03 1:33 PM
in reply to: danimal123

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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion
I've just finished Blender, and found ISLAGIATT was tougher.

I also have a soft spot for A Very Dark Place though.
2015-01-03 2:23 PM
in reply to: Eucid

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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion
I have always enjoyed Fight Club and A Very Dark Place


2015-01-03 3:14 PM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion
Originally posted by yazmaster

Originally posted by Jayabusa I guess I should have mention we are using trainer road program. If he is honest about his ftp. he will be in pain. Trainer road will communicate with the wahoo and he will be stuck with whatever it gives him. You can not take it easy with the combo unless you lower your ftp.

 

I will add the caveat that someone using a Kickr will find it significantly easier to complete the Sufferfest than someone doing it legitimately on a fluid trainer. 

 

I know it seems like the Kickr would make it harder in that you HAVE to hit the %FTP power targets, but that doesn't include the full picture. 

 

Here is why the Kickr will be easier (signifcantly so in my case):

- Slower rampup time to target power on intervals. Even if it's a 10sec ramp, if you're doing 30-40 interval accelerations over the course of an hour, you've just added almost 30 x 10sec of subtarget power to your workout, which is a lot. On a fluid trainer, you'll hit that target power in <3 seconds most of the time.

- On the Kickr, your average power per interval will always be LOWER than the target interval power because of the slow rampup. So if the target is 200 watts, and you take 10sec to ramp up on a Kickr, even if you hold 200 watts for the rest of it, you'll end up averaging <200watts by a small amount. On a fluid trainer, if you're monitoring your avg power, what usually happens is that you fluctuate enough above/below that you end up averaging the TRUE full 200 watts by the end of it. (At least I do almost every time.)

- Smoother power riding on the kickr with less power spikes = less matches burned

- Less mental fatigue on the Kickr for hitting those targets since it's controlled for you

 

I know it sounds like I'm just nitpicking, but these things actually make a very big difference given that the Sufferfest pushes you to the edge of your ability if done at the prescribed FTP, and thus even tiny variances in power/efficiency can mean the difference between surviving the workout or having to bail out early.

 

I used to think ISLAGIATT was absolutely impossible on a fluid trainer, and this was with true, multi-tested FTP (2 x 20) tests AND over 7hrs/week on the bike so I was in very good shape for my ability. I was surprised when on slowtwitch, many people said 'it wasn't that bad.' I then got a Kickr, retested my power on it a few times, and tried it on a Kickr, and lo and behold, it was hard, but totally survivable and indeed ''not that bad.' I had to go recheck all the numbers because I was worried that my Kickr was broken, but the reasons above were likely why it felt significantly easier on the Kickr than fluid trainer.

 

(I still would not go back to a fluid trainer now that I have a Kickr!)

 

 



I agree with what your saying. I wonder if a 10% increase on the ftp would make it more of a level playing field with the fluid trainer. I have also done sufferfest on a fluid trainer. I will never go back
2015-01-03 6:08 PM
in reply to: Jayabusa

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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion

Originally posted by Jayabusa I guess I should have mention we are using trainer road program. If he is honest about his ftp. he will be in pain. Trainer road will communicate with the wahoo and he will be stuck with whatever it gives him. You can not take it easy with the combo unless you lower your ftp.

If you're using Trainer Road (and because of what Yaz said in the adjustment time), take a look at the specifics of the workout in TR. If you can. My experience actually using the program is very limited as it was just between power meters. What really stood out to me was on HHNF that the first 20' ended up at 97% and the second at 104%. They should have come in fairly close to each other, so TR can have their own ideas at times.

All of the SF videos can be hard. How hard depends on what one has been training and how hard the programming is set to.

2015-01-05 7:11 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Sufferfest Suggestion
I'm better at intervals and revolver is hard but I find the ones that require at FTP for a long period of time to be harder.

I've finished ISLAGIATT and literally almost herfed. That one has everything.
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