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2015-07-28 8:21 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

I can knock out some solid kick sets with a kickboard, but I agree that the timing of my kick when swimming is off / weird.  I was actually surprised at how much I kick, as I don't feel like I kick much when I'm actually swimming.

I would be curious to see how a pull buoy affects where I ride in the water.  I am slower when I have a pull buoy (with or without paddles) than I am when I'm simply swimming.  I never thought I got a lot of benefit from wearing a wetsuit, but I might.  I do know that others tend to get a bigger benefit from a pull buoy or a wetsuit than I do.  For example: there was a guy who was a solid 1:55/100m swimmer without a wetsuit who wore it for his warm-up in the pool one day just to make sure it fit....and instantly was swimming right about a 1:40/100m pace -- he'd see solid gains with just a pull buoy as well, whereas I get slower with a pull buoy.  Also, I've noticed that people I'm consistently faster than in the pool can be nearly as fast as me when we both OWS in wetsuits, so I assume they're getting a solid benefit and I'm not seeing as much (this assumes we both swim similar lines, which I know can be a bad assumption...).

Thanks for the feedback, guys.  I'm going to share it with my masters coaches and see if they have any additional comments or any tips that will help me work on them.



2015-07-28 11:33 AM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Had a thought about the wetsuit possibly affecting your kick as well. The PB might be less propulsion, but also affect the timing in your rotation some. One of the guys at masters had a horrible time in pull sets as his stroke seemed kick dependent. He was an average kicker for the lane, but always slowed notably in pull sets. I don't know how to check, but wondered if the float of the wetsuit was triggering something similar for you.

2015-07-28 1:03 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

I am definitely faster in the wetsuit versus not being in a wetsuit, but I don't gain as much of an advantage as some others do (maybe I can gain a few seconds per 100m, but certainly nowhere near 15s per 100m!). 

Pulling without paddles, I am definitely slower (at least 5s/100m); pulling with paddles, I'm about equal or maybe a little slower than just swimming.  I do think it has some to do with the lack of kick affecting my rotation and stability.

2015-07-28 1:17 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by ligersandtions

I am definitely faster in the wetsuit versus not being in a wetsuit, but I don't gain as much of an advantage as some others do (maybe I can gain a few seconds per 100m, but certainly nowhere near 15s per 100m!). 

Pulling without paddles, I am definitely slower (at least 5s/100m); pulling with paddles, I'm about equal or maybe a little slower than just swimming.  I do think it has some to do with the lack of kick affecting my rotation and stability.




Have you ever swam with your 910 and gathered metrics such as strokes per length or strokes per minute ?

2015-07-28 3:47 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by marcag

Have you ever swam with your 910 and gathered metrics such as strokes per length or strokes per minute ?

I have, but not recently (at least not in the pool).  Maybe I'll use it a few times and gather some data.

2015-07-30 9:39 AM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Nicole, curious if you've had much of any work where the emphasis of the main set was going blazing fast in shorter intervals? Not something with 8 x 25 alternating fast/ez as that's more like strides at the end of a run workout. I can't remember entire sets, but have had bunches of 75s, like so:

3 rounds of:

3 x 75

1. 1:05  2. 1:00 3. 0:55

Or broken pyramid sets. I forget how big, but was something like:

1 x 75!     1 x 50 ez

2 x 75!     1 x 50 ez

3 x 75!     1 x 50 ez

4 x 75!     1 x 50 ez

3 x 75!     1 x 50 ez

2 x 75!     1 x 50 ez

1 x 75!     1 x 50 ez

These were almost touch and go at a very fast pace. Think I was on 1:00 for it, maybe :55? Caused some serious hurt. The second half of this workout was repeating this with 50's in place of 75's, adjusting the leave (this half was actually worse).

A couple Bo sets are:

3 x (20 x 25) in on ~:18-:19, leaving :25 or :30.

Or similar style with 50 x 50.

Bo used :25 as he's in on like :15. I used :25 since I was :16-17, but on scy, I think you're scm.

I don't know for sure, and would ask someone who would. With all the 100's to 200's in the sets over the past few months, I wonder if you need to get in more faster swimming more regularly for a period of time.

 



2015-07-30 4:17 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Seattle
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Here's my race report from the National Championships over the weekend. Most fun and best learning experience of all the races I have done. 

2015-07-30 5:07 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

My latest achievement is finally being able to sleep in my own bed with relatively little pain, after nearly five weeks

Oh, and figured out how to get the road bike with recessed dropouts on the trainer without ruining the frame.....Soon



Edited by ChrisM 2015-07-30 5:13 PM
2015-07-31 5:04 AM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by ChrisM

My latest achievement is finally being able to sleep in my own bed with relatively little pain, after nearly five weeks

Oh, and figured out how to get the road bike with recessed dropouts on the trainer without ruining the frame.....Soon




this is good news !! both sleep and being back on the trainer.
Oceanside, here he comes
2015-07-31 10:42 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Found the coolest race pic of me ever.  Turns out this guy was a bit of a bandit photographer, but I'll be happy to pay for this one.

http://martin-imaging.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/m2Imaging-Gravenhurst-2015-1430778.jpg

2015-07-31 11:08 AM
in reply to: GoFaster

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

New avatar/profile picture right there.



2015-07-31 11:12 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

I don't really get much say in what we do, since I'm part of a masters swim group.  In the past, we haven't done much in the way of speed work.  Every once in a while, one of the coaches will get on a speed work kick, but that only lasts a short period before we go back to doing 100's, 200's, 300's, etc. 

But here's the thing, if I'm "topped out" in terms of ability and making gains, I don't want to do something that I don't enjoy....and I don't enjoy speed work or stroke work.  If I were really convinced that doing those kinds of things would result in improvement, I would be willing to give it a shot.  But I do have some concerns that if I take the enjoyment out of it AND don't improve, I'll get frustrated and potentially go in the wrong direction (i.e. get worse).

2015-07-31 11:19 AM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Seattle
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Nicole, to answer your question in my RR, I ran to several of the breweries. Some are further out and I drove to those. I highly recommend downloading the app.

You have to complete 10 to get a free pint glass or you can go for 16 (which is all of them) for a pint glass and a bottle opener. The pint glasses are cool because there are made of silicone. 

What else are you doing in Oregon and where will you be? I have a ton of recommendations. Hot springs, hikes, bike rides etc. 

2015-07-31 2:24 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Elite
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by ChrisM

My latest achievement is finally being able to sleep in my own bed with relatively little pain, after nearly five weeks

Oh, and figured out how to get the road bike with recessed dropouts on the trainer without ruining the frame.....Soon

Awesome news!  

2015-07-31 2:25 PM
in reply to: GoFaster

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by GoFaster

Found the coolest race pic of me ever.  Turns out this guy was a bit of a bandit photographer, but I'll be happy to pay for this one.

http://martin-imaging.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/m2Imaging-Gravenhurst-2015-1430778.jpg

Wow, that's a great shot!  Someone that knows the kind of pic that people will pay for.

2015-07-31 3:38 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by GoFaster

Found the coolest race pic of me ever.  Turns out this guy was a bit of a bandit photographer, but I'll be happy to pay for this one.

http://martin-imaging.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/m2Imaging-Gravenhurst-2015-1430778.jpg

Wow, that's a great shot!  Someone that knows the kind of pic that people will pay for.

That's a very good shot!



2015-07-31 3:49 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

Master
10208
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by ligersandtions

I don't really get much say in what we do, since I'm part of a masters swim group.  In the past, we haven't done much in the way of speed work.  Every once in a while, one of the coaches will get on a speed work kick, but that only lasts a short period before we go back to doing 100's, 200's, 300's, etc. 

But here's the thing, if I'm "topped out" in terms of ability and making gains, I don't want to do something that I don't enjoy....and I don't enjoy speed work or stroke work.  If I were really convinced that doing those kinds of things would result in improvement, I would be willing to give it a shot.  But I do have some concerns that if I take the enjoyment out of it AND don't improve, I'll get frustrated and potentially go in the wrong direction (i.e. get worse).

Yeah, can make it tough if masters is the only place you can swim. They make the schedule. I think we had some more of that over the winter. Summer tends to be a bit longer sets. Coach reasoned it was more open water season. The first year the club hosted the state meet there was the fast work a few more times from Jan-March, and I think it showed. It's really intense while doing it, but also has that fast and smooth concept we've discussed here in running.

2015-07-31 6:44 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Feel like I am on a similar plateau with swimming. I haven't worried about it much in the past as I just figure my swim usually puts me at/near the top of my AG and I get a lot more bang for my buck working on the bike and run, but after my last race I'm wondering if I should stop kind of taking the swim for granted. I'm probably a similar speed in the pool (can do tons of 100's on 1:35-1:40) but my races are all over the place.

Normally my swim and run placings are really close, if not identical (which I think indicates that running is my strength, and swimming is a weakness for a lot of triathletes), but my swim placing was almost as weak as my bike in my last race. Still not sure why. Might have our school coach take a look at my technique to see if I've fallen into some sloppy habits. Not sure about others, but the way my pool access works out, I always tend to be swimming when I'm a bit fatigued from a previous workout and/or a long day at work. Running and biking is usually done early AM when I'm fresh. Wondering if that has something to do with my lack of progress on the swim. I'm definitely a lot faster and have better form on the rare occasions when I swim when rested (taper, vacation, etc.) Wondering if that could be a factor for you--fatigue tends to lead to technique issues.
2015-07-31 7:55 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Nicole, to answer your question in my RR, I ran to several of the breweries. Some are further out and I drove to those. I highly recommend downloading the app.

You have to complete 10 to get a free pint glass or you can go for 16 (which is all of them) for a pint glass and a bottle opener. The pint glasses are cool because there are made of silicone. 

What else are you doing in Oregon and where will you be? I have a ton of recommendations. Hot springs, hikes, bike rides etc. 

A good friend of mine is getting married in Silverton, OR on September 5th.  I fly in the day before, will be going to the rehearsal dinner that night, wedding the following night, and then have Sunday, Monday, and part of Tuesday to play.  My brother lives in Seattle and will be driving down to meet me (we were originally thinking Portland, but Bend might be a fun excursion).  I grew up in the PNW, so the area is not new to me, but I wasn't of drinking age, nor was I into endurance sports.  I won't be bringing my bike, but certainly up for some running!  Feel free to make suggestions

2015-07-31 10:18 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Not that familiar with Bend, but the nearby resort area of Sunriver has a great MUP that would be good for running--the Pac Crest Tri uses it. Portland--my favorite was a loop along the riverfront trail crossing the various bridges downtown. Can't recall the exact details but you can get on it in the waterfront park right downtown; to the south you can run all the way to Sellwood. I used to live near there so that (Sellwood/Woodstock to Steel Bridge and back) was my go-to weekend run. There are lots of signs along the way that give directions and distances. If your travels take you to Eugene, let me know--awesome running there, of course! (And no shortage of good beer, anywhere, of course.)
2015-08-01 7:17 AM
in reply to: #5079829

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Nicole - I haven't been able to progress in the water for a very long time and I understand your frustration. Wish I could swim as well as you.


2015-08-01 5:32 PM
in reply to: GoFaster

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
That race pic is a great shot
2015-08-01 6:36 PM
in reply to: GoFaster

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Thinking of doing a "swim focus" for the next four weeks or so.....assuming I have access to the pool at work. (It's never a given and the rules of engagement change a little every school year depending on which programs are using the pool and whether any maintenance is going on.) Normally I wouldn't do this but my next race (if I can manage to enter it--having technical difficulties right now) is swim-run only (Oly distance aquathlon) and with two races in the past three weeks (one a HIM) it doesn't feel like the right time for a full-on run focus. Maybe four days a week of each, and just a 2-hour-ish bike or trainer ride with some pick-ups once a week. I can always use more work on the bike, but with no triathlons planned until next February or March at the earliest, if I do want to take some time off now would be the best time. I'll be honest--in Saigon at least, the bike is the part I enjoy least--90% is trainer and most of the rest around an industrial park!
2015-08-03 1:45 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Seattle
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Nicole, to answer your question in my RR, I ran to several of the breweries. Some are further out and I drove to those. I highly recommend downloading the app.

You have to complete 10 to get a free pint glass or you can go for 16 (which is all of them) for a pint glass and a bottle opener. The pint glasses are cool because there are made of silicone. 

What else are you doing in Oregon and where will you be? I have a ton of recommendations. Hot springs, hikes, bike rides etc. 

A good friend of mine is getting married in Silverton, OR on September 5th.  I fly in the day before, will be going to the rehearsal dinner that night, wedding the following night, and then have Sunday, Monday, and part of Tuesday to play.  My brother lives in Seattle and will be driving down to meet me (we were originally thinking Portland, but Bend might be a fun excursion).  I grew up in the PNW, so the area is not new to me, but I wasn't of drinking age, nor was I into endurance sports.  I won't be bringing my bike, but certainly up for some running!  Feel free to make suggestions

Well, both places have excellent beer and excellent running (PDX and Bend.) Bend is pretty out of the way, for both of you but I certainly wouldn't dissuade anyone from making the trip! Just let me know which place you decide and I can give you lots of running and beer ideas. 

2015-08-03 2:14 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Starting to get my legs back under me on the bike.  I went through a 4-5 week rough patch where I thought I just needed more rest, but it was actually the opposite.  I was losing fitness because I wasn't riding hard enough.  My performance management chart had me close to a season low in terms of fitness.  Sure, maybe one of those weeks I actually did need rest, but the others were just making excuses.  Made more of an effort to join some group rides that would push myself and sure enough I can start to see the fitness coming back.

Road race this weekend which I'm probably not ready for, but will do it anyway.  12 lap circuit of 3 miles each, with about 200 feet of climbing each lap.  One short but steep climb were most of the action will take place.  I've had success at this race before, but I've also usually been a lot more fit at this time of the year.  Hoping though that maybe I can continue to build and peak at the end of the month which is the last road race of the season.  Normally by the end of August I'm kind of in the "I'm done" mode so maybe this will work out better for that race.

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