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2015-01-18 5:15 PM

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Subject: Pros/Cons of living off the course
have done a couple of half IMs and am now prepping for IMTX. I am considering living off the course just due to the convenience of it. Mainly the bike portion I am considering this for. I have ordered and am using Gatorade Endurance in training and it is fine so far. Just want to hear from those more experienced than me the pros and cons of this. I was self sufficient other than water in my previous HIM races.


2015-01-18 5:51 PM
in reply to: #5084675


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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course
Obvious con is having to have the extra weight since you would have to carry your own drink, or having to deal with drop bags.

For IM distance, I'd say best bet is to use your own liquid nutrition, Perpetuem or Infinit or whatever in one bottle, and in a second bottle use the on the course electrolyte drink, you can dilute it, and when needed just go for plain water. Find out whatever drink they will use on course and make sure you can tolerate it. Fill up at bottle exchange and go. Pros are quick in and out at the aid station, and you will be lighter.

HIM distance I'd still go with one bottle hydration, but may be more inclined to go even lighter and drop the liquid nutrition and use gu's or gels.

To me it seems silly to get to race weight, have a light bike and wheels, then load up with 5 extra pounds of drink.
2015-01-18 8:48 PM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

Cons: Dealing with sketchy riders in Feed Zones. Make sure that you can ride your bike with one hand, grab a water/nutrition bottle, dump bottle into front aero hydration system and throw it away in a feed zone. 

2015-01-18 9:01 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course
Really depends on your goals. Pure speed? Being able to stay in aero for the full ride rather than sitting up and slowing for aid stations will negate any weight penalty (and aero trumps weight). A bottle doesn't weigh that much, and weighs less and less as you drink. As noted living off the course you also risk the potential of others taking you out at an aid station, or missing a bottle handup, etc. Also have to rely on accuracy of maps and aid station locations. I had a 70.3 where the aid stations were at mile 12 and 44, the maps were wrong. Kinda screwed the nutrition plan on that one.

just finishing? Stopping at stains and filling a bottle won't be as much of an issue.

there's also risks of being self sufficient. I've had race bottles leak overnight leaving less than the expected liquid, or if you drop a bottle, etc

Edited by ChrisM 2015-01-18 9:03 PM

2015-01-19 7:28 AM
in reply to: KatieLimb

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course
When living off the coarse you have to depend on the competency of volunteers at the aid station.

I had a 1/2 IM where I grabbed a bottle and went to fill my torpedo bottle with it. The cap was barely on when I turned it over to fill the cap came off and it emptied out all over the front of my bike. So I was a bottle shorter than planned, and the whole front of my bike was sticky for the rest of the ride.

Carried the extra weight is no big deal if its a flat coarse, if its hilly you will feel it if the hills are early.
2015-01-19 8:24 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course
Originally posted by mike761

I had a 1/2 IM where I grabbed a bottle and went to fill my torpedo bottle with it. The cap was barely on when I turned it over to fill the cap came off and it emptied out all over the front of my bike. So I was a bottle shorter than planned, and the whole front of my bike was sticky for the rest of the ride.



Same thing happened to me. I also really didnt like the Ironman branded drink and wasnt able to train with it before the race.


2015-01-19 9:03 AM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

Originally posted by ImSore Obvious con is having to have the extra weight since you would have to carry your own drink, or having to deal with drop bags.

Weight is not really a con unless it's a very hilly course... which certainly isn't the case with Ironman Texas, and probably not the case with any N.A. Ironman or 70.3 race to include the two hilliest in Tahoe and Whistler.

The con to having all this extra stuff attached to your bike is aerodynamic drag.  Regular water bottles on the frame or parachuting behind the saddle can cause a fair amount of drag.  Proper equipment choices can minimize that.  Ironman Texas can be a fairly windy course so lowering your aerodynamic profile is something that needs attention.  

2015-01-20 6:59 AM
in reply to: #5084675

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course
For me I find being able to avoid the chaos in the nutrition zones is a major pro to carrying your own nutrition. But carrying all your own nutrition in my case does mean you have to stop at special needs which is plenty chaotic.

So it's kind of a wash in my opinion.
2015-01-20 9:34 AM
in reply to: KatieLimb

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

What are your nutrition needs other than Gatorade? Does your stomach agree with the items that will be available on the bike course? (last year it was Bananas, Bonk Breaker Bars, GU Original Energy Gels, Roctane Ultra Endurance Gels, GU Chomps)? Will you be okay if they run out of one or more of these? Are you OK with whatever flavor they hand you or if they only have one available? How many items will you need to grab at each aid station - water, gatorade, a gel, a bar, a banana, etc. can add up to a lengthy stop and/or missing one or more items in the chaos of the area.

I'd suggest considering all of the "worst case" scenarios you can think of (just read race reports to learn that they DO happen) and ask yourself if any of them would significantly impact your race, make you want to carry some supplemental nutrition "just in case," or even just carry everything yourself. Your call!

2015-01-20 10:24 AM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

 

I went with one bottle with a high concentrate of my Infinit blend and one bottle of water. Switched water at the aid stations and had another bottle of concentrated Infinit in my special needs bag. Work well for me, was able to avoid most of the aid stations. I also had a bento box with pre-cut clif bars.

Really depends on what your goals are and what you are comfortable with. I prefer my own Infinit blend, keeps the stomach issues away so I was not willing to risk living off the course in that regard. Also it was nice to sail past the aid stations and not have to worry about the poor bike handling skills of my fellow triathletes. 

2015-01-20 10:36 AM
in reply to: KatieLimb

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

Much easier to live off the course as you will have what you need available every 10 miles or 1 mile on bike/run.

If you have special drink or nutrition, you drop it or loose it, what are you going to do? Go with an unproven and new strategy at your most important race.

For my first IM, I did my long rides toward the end of training doing different nutrition plans each week based on stuff on the course. One week it was water, gels,  and electrolytes.  It helped me learn what I could use that would work for me and gave me confidence on my ability to adapt if necessary.

I had one coach that had a very precise way of doing nutrition which meant for IM #2 I carried everything. It was worst nutrition IM yet...super hot, I threw up for hours, and I was fortunate I was able to adapt and actually finish. I would never do that again....mostly having all my nutrition in a self carried liquid form.

Last two IMs I didn't like the drink on the course after trying it in training, so I went with water adding in nuuns for electrolytes and flavoring and had another plan for calories with gels, ect.



2015-01-20 12:04 PM
in reply to: KathyG

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

I always live of the course.  I find out before I enter what the sponsor brand is and I train with it from day 1.  Minimises gastric issues and is one thing I don't have to worry about on race day.

I've never in all my days of triathlon (going since 2007, all distances in 3 IM) had any problems with any other riders at the station.  Sit up nice and early, slow down to a crawl, make eye contact with the volunteer and speak loudly and clearly to them.  A smile on the way in and a thank you on the way out.

The people I see making mistakes either stop as if they're at a buffet or race through it like their life depends on it and the volunteers are their employees.

Ease off the testosterone for a second, make the most of having a human to interact with and get back to riding.

2015-01-20 1:40 PM
in reply to: KatieLimb

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course
In my opinion, the big pro of living off the course is you don't have to carry all that stuff on your bike. For an IM, I go with one bottle up front, and backup on the downtube, and a bento box with a few emergency items.

In my opinion, the big cons of living off the course are: 1) other participants seem to block off the volunteers by stopping in the worst spot, and 2) if you miss the volunteers (crowded station) or drop a bottle (and keep going), then you have to wait until the next station, which could be 20+ miles away.

Although aero trumps weight, I would never consider 5 bottles, plus nutrition, for an IM, regardless of how aero they might be. It's just too much to worry about and I don't want to lug it up a hill.
2015-01-20 2:00 PM
in reply to: d00d

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

Originally posted by d00d

Although aero trumps weight, I would never consider 5 bottles, plus nutrition, for an IM, regardless of how aero they might be. It's just too much to worry about and I don't want to lug it up a hill.

Something a lot of folks do to simplify is concentrate an all-in-one drink like Infinite. Start with a 3-hour bottle on the bike, plus an aero-bottle for water - and switch out the empty Infinite bottle with a fresh one that's been sitting in my back jersey pocket.

For me, and the flip side of dood's comment, is that 1 Infinite and 1 water bottle is way more simple than messing with aid stations handing up gels and bars and chews and fruit and Gatorade and water --- all I worry about at aid stations is topping off my aero bottle with water. But obviously it all comes down to personal preference. 

2015-01-20 3:03 PM
in reply to: Dan-L

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

Originally posted by Dan-L

I always live of the course.  I find out before I enter what the sponsor brand is and I train with it from day 1.  Minimises gastric issues and is one thing I don't have to worry about on race day.

I've never in all my days of triathlon (going since 2007, all distances in 3 IM) had any problems with any other riders at the station.  Sit up nice and early, slow down to a crawl, make eye contact with the volunteer and speak loudly and clearly to them.  A smile on the way in and a thank you on the way out.

The people I see making mistakes either stop as if they're at a buffet or race through it like their life depends on it and the volunteers are their employees.

Ease off the testosterone for a second, make the most of having a human to interact with and get back to riding.

I think it's really smart to try out what will be offered on the course.  If your stomach can handle it and it seems to work for you go with it.  The big pro is in case where you launch or lose a bottle or something you know you won't be ruining your day. Plus the not having to carry it all thing

I kind of did a hybrid. I brought enough liquid to get started and skip aid stations on the bike for the first loop.  But I couldn't do the solids they had so i brought my own (Bonk Breakers) for the bike.  On the run, I had my own gels (the Honey stingers were too hard on my teeth) and I grabbed liquids at the aid stations. 

And having some liquid with me did mitigate the curved aid station they had which I just couldn't manage on the bike. I tried both loops to get water there but just couldn't coordinate myself on the curve. 

 

2015-01-20 3:44 PM
in reply to: juniperjen

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course
I would be worried about getting enough nutrition. If you are attempting 300 calories an hour and planning to ride 6 hours, you will somehow need to get 1800 calories in the course of the ride. That amount is going to be tough to grab from aid stations.

Personally I carry everything myself. 1000 calories of Perpetuem in a bottle, plus a bottle of Scratch. I also carry ~8 gels in a bento. I will consume the Perpetuem first and chuck that bottle at the first aid station after I finish it, and grab a spare plain water bottle or maybe whatever sports drink they have.

This way there is no question I have enough nutrition, and it's exactly the nutrition I know will work for me.


2015-01-20 6:24 PM
in reply to: #5085225

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course
I should probably clarify a few things. First off, I would be getting mainly the Gatorade at every station. I would carry my own Shot blocks and Bonk breaker bars to supplement that on the bike, however, the Gatorade would be my main nutrition source. I would also get water from the aid stations. I have thought about an extra bottle in a cage as insurance as well. On the run, I would probably carry my own Gu and supplement with what is on course, probably only water/coke.

I have used Perpetuem and liked it in my HIM races, but anything more than a 2-3 hour bottle and I can't stand the taste/consistency. I have been training so far with the Gatorade Endurance with zero issues.

Great things to think about though!

2015-01-20 6:51 PM
in reply to: KatieLimb

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course
I think your plan sounds solid. I did pretty much the same thing, and it worked well. If you tolerate the Gatorade and just go back between water and Gatorade I wouldn't worry too much about carrying extra fluids. I like to carry my own gu, chomps, food, etc. Also, I didn't have any problems going through the aid stations, and if anyone was going to crash there it would have been me! You'll do great!
2015-01-20 6:56 PM
in reply to: noofus

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

Originally posted by noofus I would be worried about getting enough nutrition. If you are attempting 300 calories an hour and planning to ride 6 hours, you will somehow need to get 1800 calories in the course of the ride. That amount is going to be tough to grab from aid stations.

I went over 400 calories per hour my last three IM's and it was all on course nutrition with the exception of a Stinger Waffle I had in my Bento.  I was drinking at least two bottles of Perform per hour and never had an issue getting enough to drink.

2015-01-20 8:37 PM
in reply to: KatieLimb

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

For me personally, I use my own bars and gels and just take bottles of water and sport drink from the aid stations.  I limit how much I have to carry with me by splitting it up and putting the second half of my calories in special needs.

I view aid stations at crowded races as a danger zone, so I want to spend as little time in them as possible.  I don't want to be yelling out for 3 different things at any given aid station.  I usually just get one bottle of whatever I need...if it's easy to get two, then I'll do so and skip the next aid station.

Stopping at special needs isn't that big a deal.  My stop only cost me about 40 seconds waiting for my bag to be delivered and restocking.  You could easily lose that much time sitting up at aid stations trying to get bar and gel handouts.

Of course I always know that if for whatever reason my special needs is lost, I can just stop at the next aid station and stock up there...knowing my stomach can handle the bonk breakers and GU they were handing out.

2015-01-21 6:46 AM
in reply to: KatieLimb

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

Originally posted by KatieLimb I should probably clarify a few things. First off, I would be getting mainly the Gatorade at every station. I would carry my own Shot blocks and Bonk breaker bars to supplement that on the bike, however, the Gatorade would be my main nutrition source. I would also get water from the aid stations. I have thought about an extra bottle in a cage as insurance as well. On the run, I would probably carry my own Gu and supplement with what is on course, probably only water/coke. I have used Perpetuem and liked it in my HIM races, but anything more than a 2-3 hour bottle and I can't stand the taste/consistency. I have been training so far with the Gatorade Endurance with zero issues. Great things to think about though!

Why would you carry your own GU if they have that at the aid stations?  



2015-01-21 7:27 AM
in reply to: McFuzz

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

Originally posted by McFuzz

Why would you carry your own GU if they have that at the aid stations?  

Because she doesn't like the flavors.

2015-01-21 8:29 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030


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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Originally posted by McFuzz

Why would you carry your own GU if they have that at the aid stations?  

Because she doesn't like the flavors.




DUH!!!!!!
2015-01-21 9:08 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

Originally posted by Jason N

For me personally, I use my own bars and gels and just take bottles of water and sport drink from the aid stations.  I limit how much I have to carry with me by splitting it up and putting the second half of my calories in special needs.

I view aid stations at crowded races as a danger zone, so I want to spend as little time in them as possible.  I don't want to be yelling out for 3 different things at any given aid station.  I usually just get one bottle of whatever I need...if it's easy to get two, then I'll do so and skip the next aid station.

Stopping at special needs isn't that big a deal.  My stop only cost me about 40 seconds waiting for my bag to be delivered and restocking.  You could easily lose that much time sitting up at aid stations trying to get bar and gel handouts.

Of course I always know that if for whatever reason my special needs is lost, I can just stop at the next aid station and stock up there...knowing my stomach can handle the bonk breakers and GU they were handing out.

This. My gels, on course bottles. After 10 Ironman races, I've found this is the best balance. It's a very well supported race and its really not worth it to bother with the weight and bulk of liquids.

2015-01-21 9:32 AM
in reply to: AllNewMe

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Subject: RE: Pros/Cons of living off the course

Originally posted by AllNewMe
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Originally posted by McFuzz

Why would you carry your own GU if they have that at the aid stations?  

Because she doesn't like the flavors.

DUH!!!!!!

No pink or condescending tone needed.

I carry my own gels on the run because yep, my palate is sensitive and I will literally gag with most of the more common flavors offered on IM courses. I don't think a safety net like that is uncommon at all.

Also in the last stand-alone marathon I ran, it was advertised there would be gels at 3 aid stations on the back half. NONE of them had any when I reached them. None. 2 of the gals I ran with were depending on them for their race nutrition (because why would you carry your own if they are offered on the course?) and I ended up lending my back-ups to them so they could finish the race.

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