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2015-02-05 8:20 AM

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DC
Subject: Climbing & Weight
From another thread I posted, got me wondering: For some it's settled that even on climbs, aero wheels are still the better choice over the long haul despite the weight "penalty." For other it's also settled that lighter wheels are better to get you up the mountain. And then, the other, e.g., one of my bud whose not a great climber but good descender (picks up mad speed on the downhill), swear by heavier wheels to help them get down faster.

Wondering then, what BT'ers think about aero vs lightweight when climbing. For context, I'm thinking, say, climbing 1K feet over 2.5 miles.


2015-02-05 8:36 AM
in reply to: Porfirio

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight

Need to look at the entire course, so is that what you gave?

2015-02-05 8:39 AM
in reply to: Porfirio

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight

If all you are doing is climbing, lighter wheels are better. If they are technical descents that require you to break often, lighter wheels are still probably better.  On 99% of triathlon courses this isn't the case, and that would mean that aero wheels are better.

 

2015-02-05 9:15 AM
in reply to: Porfirio

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight
I live in a hilly area and the light wheels definitely make a difference when climbing.

Light weight and aero is the perfect wheel, but you have to balance that based on where you ride and your budget.

As for the heavy wheels on the descent. It's kind of true, he will descend faster but he will get killed going up hill which is what you have to do in order to go down hill. If you look at both the up hill and the down hill you will gain more going up with light wheels than you will going down with heavy wheels.
2015-02-05 9:30 AM
in reply to: mike761

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DC
Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight
Originally posted by mike761

I live in a hilly area and the light wheels definitely make a difference when climbing.

Light weight and aero is the perfect wheel, but you have to balance that based on where you ride and your budget.

As for the heavy wheels on the descent. It's kind of true, he will descend faster but he will get killed going up hill which is what you have to do in order to go down hill. If you look at both the up hill and the down hill you will gain more going up with light wheels than you will going down with heavy wheels.


Judging from your avatar location, I bet we have ridden the same hills. Thanks.
2015-02-05 10:03 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight

Originally posted by dmiller5

On 99% of triathlon courses this isn't the case, and that would mean that aero wheels are better. 

Especially here in North America.  I can't think of a single race (especially among the more well known national and regional brands) in which a "climbing" wheel would be an advantage over an aero wheel.



2015-02-05 10:05 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight

Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Originally posted by dmiller5

On 99% of triathlon courses this isn't the case, and that would mean that aero wheels are better. 

Especially here in North America.  I can't think of a single race (especially among the more well known national and regional brands) in which a "climbing" wheel would be an advantage over an aero wheel.

Savageman

2015-02-05 10:06 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight

Originally posted by mike761 I live in a hilly area and the light wheels definitely make a difference when climbing. Light weight and aero is the perfect wheel, but you have to balance that based on where you ride and your budget. As for the heavy wheels on the descent. It's kind of true, he will descend faster but he will get killed going up hill which is what you have to do in order to go down hill. If you look at both the up hill and the down hill you will gain more going up with light wheels than you will going down with heavy wheels.

Of course light wheels make a difference when climbing. The question is what will make your total time faster. The answer is in a triathlon 99% of the time it is the more aero wheel. You get the aero beneftis going downhill, and recover the potential energy due to the wheel weight when you are going back down the hill.

2015-02-05 10:15 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Originally posted by dmiller5

On 99% of triathlon courses this isn't the case, and that would mean that aero wheels are better. 

Especially here in North America.  I can't think of a single race (especially among the more well known national and regional brands) in which a "climbing" wheel would be an advantage over an aero wheel.

Savageman




depends...

If your only goal was to make it up the wall (or savage mtn) then yeah, lightweight wheels would be helpful. As an overall profile though, aero wheels would still save you more time (even if you had to walk up the wall) since there's still a bigger portion of the course that is rollers/downhill.
2015-02-05 10:16 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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DC
Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by mike761 I live in a hilly area and the light wheels definitely make a difference when climbing. Light weight and aero is the perfect wheel, but you have to balance that based on where you ride and your budget. As for the heavy wheels on the descent. It's kind of true, he will descend faster but he will get killed going up hill which is what you have to do in order to go down hill. If you look at both the up hill and the down hill you will gain more going up with light wheels than you will going down with heavy wheels.

Of course light wheels make a difference when climbing. The question is what will make your total time faster. The answer is in a triathlon 99% of the time it is the more aero wheel. You get the aero beneftis going downhill, and recover the potential energy due to the wheel weight when you are going back down the hill.




Agree 100%. I reckon I failed to set the context of non-race group roadie rides, e.g., 15+% graded hills.
2015-02-05 10:19 AM
in reply to: Porfirio

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight

Originally posted by Porfirio
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by mike761 I live in a hilly area and the light wheels definitely make a difference when climbing. Light weight and aero is the perfect wheel, but you have to balance that based on where you ride and your budget. As for the heavy wheels on the descent. It's kind of true, he will descend faster but he will get killed going up hill which is what you have to do in order to go down hill. If you look at both the up hill and the down hill you will gain more going up with light wheels than you will going down with heavy wheels.

Of course light wheels make a difference when climbing. The question is what will make your total time faster. The answer is in a triathlon 99% of the time it is the more aero wheel. You get the aero beneftis going downhill, and recover the potential energy due to the wheel weight when you are going back down the hill.

Agree 100%. I reckon I failed to set the context of non-race group roadie rides, e.g., 15+% graded hills.

Oh, then obviously not aero wheels. In the group aero doesn't matter much.  And I wouldn't waste my nice wheels in a group ride anyhow.



2015-02-05 10:29 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by mike761 I live in a hilly area and the light wheels definitely make a difference when climbing. Light weight and aero is the perfect wheel, but you have to balance that based on where you ride and your budget. As for the heavy wheels on the descent. It's kind of true, he will descend faster but he will get killed going up hill which is what you have to do in order to go down hill. If you look at both the up hill and the down hill you will gain more going up with light wheels than you will going down with heavy wheels.

Of course light wheels make a difference when climbing. The question is what will make your total time faster. The answer is in a triathlon 99% of the time it is the more aero wheel. You get the aero beneftis going downhill, and recover the potential energy due to the wheel weight when you are going back down the hill.



I was just referring to climbing in general, not really in the context of tri's.

Yes in triathlon the aero always trumps the weight of the wheel.
2015-02-07 2:54 PM
in reply to: Porfirio


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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight
Originally posted by Porfirio

From another thread I posted, got me wondering: For some it's settled that even on climbs, aero wheels are still the better choice over the long haul despite the weight "penalty." For other it's also settled that lighter wheels are better to get you up the mountain. And then, the other, e.g., one of my bud whose not a great climber but good descender (picks up mad speed on the downhill), swear by heavier wheels to help them get down faster.

Wondering then, what BT'ers think about aero vs lightweight when climbing. For context, I'm thinking, say, climbing 1K feet over 2.5 miles.


Pro cycling has your answer. On mountain stages, none of them are running deep dishes.

2015-02-08 3:17 AM
in reply to: ziggie204

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight
Originally posted by ziggie204

Originally posted by Porfirio

From another thread I posted, got me wondering: For some it's settled that even on climbs, aero wheels are still the better choice over the long haul despite the weight "penalty." For other it's also settled that lighter wheels are better to get you up the mountain. And then, the other, e.g., one of my bud whose not a great climber but good descender (picks up mad speed on the downhill), swear by heavier wheels to help them get down faster.

Wondering then, what BT'ers think about aero vs lightweight when climbing. For context, I'm thinking, say, climbing 1K feet over 2.5 miles.


Pro cycling has your answer. On mountain stages, none of them are running deep dishes.




Pros don't always do what is best. Either they don't know it, don't want it or are contractually obligated not to do it. In other words: the 'pro way' is neither a necessary nor sufficient gauge for what is best.

To the OP, take a read on this article: http://flocycling.blogspot.com/2014/03/flo-cycling-aero-vs-weight-f...
It is computed and under the quasi-control of a wheel company, so keep that in mind.
2015-02-08 9:00 AM
in reply to: dfroelich

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight

Aerodynamics matter much less to the pro cycling race due to drafting.  Exception being TT stages.

2015-02-08 9:18 AM
in reply to: Porfirio

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight
I'm not buying that heavier wheels are faster on descents. Acceleration due to gravity is a constant. During high speed descents is when I would expect aero wheels to be most important.


2015-02-08 9:55 AM
in reply to: dfroelich

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DC
Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight



To the OP, take a read on this article: http://flocycling.blogspot.com/2014/03/flo-cycling-aero-vs-weight-f...
It is computed and under the quasi-control of a wheel company, so keep that in mind.


Thanks, man. I did see this. This is actually what prompted me to post the thread.

I'm going to sell my "lighter" boxed wheels afterall & stick to the Flo 30's as my EVERYthing wheel.
2015-02-08 10:17 AM
in reply to: donw

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Subject: RE: Climbing & Weight

Originally posted by donw I'm not buying that heavier wheels are faster on descents. Acceleration due to gravity is a constant. During high speed descents is when I would expect aero wheels to be most important.

In a vacuum, yes, but we're not riding in a vacuum.

Heavier isn't necessarily going to be faster even if it may trend that way. It's still going to depend on the forces pulling vs the forces resisting, just like anywhere else riding the bike.

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