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2015-02-13 5:23 PM

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Subject: My swim technique
Would love to hear feedback re my technique. In this video I'm swimming at approximately 2-2:15/100. I know it's limited views. Thanks.


2015-02-13 5:26 PM
in reply to: Jpro19

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Subject: RE: My swim technique




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2015-02-13 7:08 PM
in reply to: Jpro19

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Subject: RE: My swim technique

Not bad although I'm not seeing a lot of propulsion from your pull.  Your turnover seems decent but I bet your hand is slipping through the water in your pull.  If you catch the water propertly out front, you're going to feel a good amount of water resistance from your fingertips up to your armpit. 

Sculling drills like this one my help you to get a better feel for the water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKsmw6Sq2Pg

This drill will help you to find the right pitch of the hand to gain the most resistance when you initiate your pull. 

2015-02-13 8:28 PM
in reply to: JoelO

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Subject: RE: My swim technique
I agree with you 100%. I feel like my technique is pretty good but my pull is my weakness. I move slow in the water. You're right. Thanks.

Other feedback is welcomed as well.
2015-02-14 12:18 AM
in reply to: Jpro19

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Subject: RE: My swim technique

Your body position isn't bad.  You're scissoring your legs a bit... try to keep them more together.

Your pull is... well... not good.

2015-02-14 3:59 AM
in reply to: #5093235

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Subject: RE: My swim technique
Yeh, there's a little bit of scissor in the legs but it's not too bad.

You could also try this to work on both things we mentioned:

Cut a length of old bike tube to go around your ankles, knot it and wear it with a pull buoy. The pull buoy will keep your hips up so you don't have to kick and the band around your ankles will keep your feet together. With this setup you can concentrate on the pull portion of your stroke. Slow your turnover down and concentrate on setting the high elbow catch out front. You're forming a paddle with your hand and forearm and you should feel the water resistance along this "paddle". If you don't feel much resistance, then a) your hand/forearm is not pulling straight back and/or b) your elbow is leading your pull.


2015-02-14 5:37 AM
in reply to: JoelO

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Subject: RE: My swim technique
Excellent. Thanks again for your feedback guys. Much appreciated.
2015-02-15 3:08 AM
in reply to: Jpro19

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Subject: RE: My swim technique
One thing that helped me is to understand how a curvilinear path helps create more propulsion when you pull. Check out the photos that I'm attaching. You can get a sense of it. You don't pull straight back. You pull in a curved pattern. Also notice how his hand and forearm look like paddles. His hand continues to apply pressure on the water even toward the finish of the pull.



(Freestyle Stroke.jpg)



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2015-02-15 7:46 AM
in reply to: #5093288

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Subject: RE: My swim technique
Nice point and good photo description. There's a diagonal phase of the pull as seen in the pictures. The orientation of the hand needs to be such that you don't lose that water resistance as you go through the diagonal phase. This is a part of the stroke where I have to concentrate on mechanics. You'll notice in pics 4,5 and 6 the elbow stays even with the forearm and hand...to me that's important to keep the hand oriented correctly and maintain the most traction. It takes some strength to maintain that form through that section of the stroke. When I start to get tired, my elbow starts to lead through that phase and I lose some traction.
2015-02-15 9:43 AM
in reply to: ecpasos

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Subject: RE: My swim technique

Be careful promoting the S-pull technique.  The current prevalent thought on the matter is that it's not the fastest stroke pattern out there: Delineating the Perfect Swim Stroke and http://www.swimsmooth.com/catch.html and http://www.swimsmooth.com/contentious.html

 

You should pull through like you're describing an ‘S-Pull shape' under the body.

INCORRECT. In centuries past, swimmers were taught to enter into the water thumb-first, then press out, sweep back in, and then finally back out as their hands swept past their thighs. This would make an S-shape. It was believed this technique would increase the length of your stroke as you were moving your hand on a longer pull-pathway under the body than if you pulled straight through. However, the benefits of doing this have since been disproved - it does not offer any advantage in propulsion versus a straight pull (see below), in fact it is slower.

Perhaps the greatest danger of an S shaped pull is that entering thumb-first is one of the leading causes of shoulder injury and pain. We suggest you avoid thumb-first entry like the plague.

2. the s-shape pull

The concept of the 'S-Pull' was conceived in the late 1970s by JE Counsilman - who aimed to show how the duration of the pull could be increased by following an S shape: Enter at the front of the stroke with thumb down, sweep outwards, then sweep back in and then finally sweep out again by the hip. You may well have heard of this technique and be trying to follow it yourself.

Any advantage of the S-Pull was disproved in the '80s. It is fundamentally flawed because it was based on a 2-dimensional analysis of the stroke and didn't take account of body roll when swimming.

When trying to perform an S-Pull many swimmers overdid the sweeping action, causing the hips to swing - increasing drag.


These days all great swimmers enter with a flat hand and pull straight back to the wall behind them. It's faster and has a much reduced risk of shoulder injury.

A major disadvantage of the S-Pull technique is that it requires a palm-out, thumb first entry in to the water. This commonly leads to shoulder injuries. If you suffer from any shoulder pain from swimming then you should avoid an S shape pull and read Fix Shoulder Injury.

Instead of trying to create an S-Pull, focus on entering with a flat hand finger tips first and press directly back behind you with the catch and pull. Find out more about this superior technique in our article on Catch And Pull.

Sheila Taormina is still a proponent of the S-Pull.  I really respect her and her Swim Speed Secrets book is awesome but she got tore up for promoting the S-Pull technique in her new book.

2015-02-15 10:16 AM
in reply to: #5093422

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Subject: RE: My swim technique
Look at pictures 3-8 and mentally block out the right it stoking arm. PVK maintains a long, tall, extended, streamlined posture. This takes a lot of deliberate practice. He is also waiting patiently with that arm, staying essentially still for 5/8 of the right arm stroke cycle, assuming those photos are equally spaced in time.

With this excellent balance and posture in the water, he can do just about anything with his striking arm and he'll go really really fast.

The OP is missing this component and would be the first thing that I would have him work on. Balance & streamlining.


2015-02-15 10:17 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: My swim technique
Thanks for the comment GMAN. I did just read her swim secrets book and that pic comes from it. I just googled what you're pointing out and here's a response snippet from her. She's may have gotten some flak about it, but she holds strongly to her beliefs about it. I'm not saying she's right, but I do know that I do this kind of pull and it works fine for me personally.


"Coaches, and the federations certifying coaches, are not delivering the proper message.

Because the focus is now on pressing back on the water rather than stroking in the manner Doc encouraged, the phrases used to coach today are “Train Tracks” and “push straight back.”

If you are a coach using these phrases, I strongly encourage you stop.

If you are a swimmer who has adopted these phrases, I encourage you to stop.

The underwater pull path is complicated and involves a unique manipulation/rotation of the upper arm, which affects the path the hand/arm takes through the water. The path is curved. You can even call it “S-shaped” if you like—that word choice doesn’t bother me.

Swim Speed Strokes is full of photographic evidence of elite swimmers, Olympians, and gold medalists who show the same curvilinear path in their stroke. The fastest swimmers in the world show the curvilinear path in all four competitive strokes."

See link for all the content of her post back in October 2014.

http://swimspeedsecrets.com/page/2/

Cheers!
2015-02-15 4:24 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: My swim technique
Barely any catch followed by dropping the entire arm.
2015-02-17 7:11 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo


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Subject: RE: My swim technique
As others have mentioned, no catch really, your arms are not generating much forward propulsion hence your slow speed. You need a high vertical elbow, this enables you to have less drag and generate more power. Your stroke rate is really high too.Not much body roll, hard to see, but looks like your left hand entry is not good, enters the water, fingers point up and hand acts as a brake. Couldn't see any bubbles, are you breathing out underwater? Body position is OK, but are you you wearing wetsuit shorts? There's probably 20+ things for you to work on, your best bet is to get some one on one swim coaching or pay for a video analysis session. They cost about $250 in Australia and are very good. At your speed you could spend months trying to fix your swimming using the internet, youtube etc unless of course you're not that bothered about improving your swim times?
2015-02-18 6:47 AM
in reply to: zedzded

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Subject: RE: My swim technique

Originally posted by zedzdedBody position is OK, but are you you wearing wetsuit shorts?  

Good catch.  If they are Roka Sim Shorts my guess is his body position without the shorts is not good at all.

2015-02-22 7:42 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: My swim technique
I am wearing tri shorts, not wetsuit shorts. These shorts have no buoyancy advantage to them.

When I was training/swimming a lot my swim paces were close to 1:40/100m. Now I'm closer to 2-2:10/100m. To be honest, I'm looking more at 70.3 distances (I've done several in the past) and my goal for the swim isn't necessarily to have a fast time, but to finish the swim comfortably and ready to go for the bike. I'm a much stronger cyclist/runner than I am swimmer. I do very much enjoy swimming though.

I won't have a lot of time to get to a pool, so 1-2x/week is my reasonable maximum. I'm realistic about my expectations but always looking to improve and seek feedback.

I'm going to work very hard on my catch, pull and kick.

Any specific drills you guys recommend for the catch part?

Edited by Jpro19 2015-02-22 7:43 AM


2015-02-22 11:41 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: My swim technique
Originally posted by Jpro19

I'm going to work very hard on my catch, pull and kick.

Any specific drills you guys recommend for the catch part?


I get a lot out of my finis agility paddles. They're designed to give feedback to you about the correct position and technique. Check out the below links.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2b6Bl77rlI

http://www.amazon.com/FINIS-Finis-Agility-Hand-Paddles/dp/B00ACOWZ1... (98 reviews, 4.5 stars)



Edited by ecpasos 2015-02-22 11:42 AM
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