10th Overall and Still Don't Place in AG?? (Page 2)

I can see how you got that, but that's not how I meant it.  Your goals shouldn't have anything to do with place.....because your time is all that really matters.  People get wrapped up in what place they finished and it causes many of them to get demoralized to the point where they think they are not improving or can't reach their goals....then they quit.  Unless you are at the really pointy end, your place is absolutely irrelevant......or it should be IMO.  As I said, you can find a race that you can win with your time.....or you can't find one where your time will get you your arse handed to you.  Neither is important because all that really matters in your time against yourself.

30 years ago I ran with some pretty fast company......and some of them decided that since they/we were winning local races that they could branch out to the next level.  No way.  The bad part of that story is that none of them are involved in triathlon at any level anymore.....and they haven't been for many, many years.  The truth is, if you judge success by where you place the rate of failure is right at 100% as you improve and race against faster and faster folks, so why judge it that way?

Race yourself.  That's what keeps you going, not how you stack  up to others.  I would like to see more people stay active in triathlon, and help grow the sport.  As I said, the burnout race is huge.....part of that is the realization that the top end, or even AG podiums, are pretty elusive....and even unattainable for VAST majority of the folks participating.

Enjoy the participation and personal bests.

Let me try it this way......your 1:13 sprint time is actually an amazing accomplishment. You are absolutely at the VERY pointy end of fitness for the human population.  That's quite an accomplishment.  I talk to kids every year who want to quit XC because their 18:XX 5K time sucks to them.  They can't even sniff a decent place in their races.  That's crazy.  My advice to them is always to get them to understand what they are doing and how fast they are compared to the rest of us.  I want them to continue that lifestyle and their running "careers".  It's important to keep racing in perspective........almost nobody can do it when compared to the general population.

That's exactly right.....and it's everything.

I watch kids quit swimming because their 1:00 100 time isn't even in the game where they are playing.  They get beat by 12 and 13 year olds.  THEY SWIM A ONE MINUTE 100!!  It's an absolutely mind boggling accomplishment for 99.999% of the population.  The problem is, someone once told them, when they were swimming that 1:10 100 at age 10, that they were going to the Olympics, or going to college on a scholarship, or some other equally ridiculous comment.....and they set their sights there.  Imagine quitting swimming because all you could muster is a 1:00 in the 100.  It happens over and over again.

I use the other people to help determine how difficult the course was that day, not for how well I did. Otherwise just a few people can make a notable difference placement, as has been demonstrated already. I do have power on the bike to help with that, but this does help more with the swim & run. How have a few of the guys that did well here done elsewhere? It's not exact, but have found it helpful. And especially with more local races I'll tend to look outside my age group for this as well.

One way to get 'sort-of' objective comparison based performances is to wait a few weeks after the race is over, then head over the USA Triathlon website, where you can get a score compared to your AG for each race. The formula is a bit complex, but based roughly on taking the average score of your fellow AG competitors in the race and normalizing against the best time. While it's far from perfect, it's a way to compare a hard course result vs a easy course result or how you compare in a totally stacked field vs a soft field. 

My best USAT result was my slowest HIM result, because it was a hot, hilly course. My worst USAT result was in a triathlon in a soft field where there were only 1-2 guys to push me, so even at 1stAG/3rd OA, it was a pretty low USAT score (which I expected given my condition for that race.) 

Originally posted by TJHammer Maybe I'm unique, but I learned a long time ago and teach ALL my students this: Competition in it's truest and purest form is the competition within oneself, to always be getting BETTER. *I should have prefaced that with fact that I AM HIGHLY competitive against others always, but if the root of one's competitiveness is be to better than others, well, then , there's a degree of disappointment at every corner because there's always someone bigger, better, faster, stronger. I would run circles around my 30y.o. self, and plan to run circles around my 40 y.o. self when I turn 50. Like the earlier post said...all about perspective. THAT SAID....I BETTER PODIUM in my duathlon in a few weeks

Many of the posts are actually saying that, to look at getting better. The question is in how to determine that as it's not necessarily just placing higher or a better time.

I feel your pain.  One of my best executed races last year landed me 9th overall (if you exclude the Pros and the Elites) but 4th in my AG.

I'm in the male 40 to 44 AG and 6 of the top 10 age group racers that day were 40 or older.

It depends on the race.  It's done both ways.  In fact, at AG Nationals OA winners are not removed from AG standings, and yes, you go up twice. (THREE times to the podium if you also place in the "masters" division. )  Furthermore, in some races, like the AG ITU race in Chicago last year, they didn't even recognize OA winners.

I really do wish that triathlon had a category system like road racing.

That would be excellent.....but it would cut down on the awards....and we can't have that.

Personally, I would care more about how I do overall  anyway. If I'm not in the top 3 overall, I don't really consider it a podium.  To me, that is all that really matters in a particular, local race. If you care about how you stack up to other people in your age group, I'm a huge fan of the USATF age grade calculators http://www.usatf.org/statistics/calculators/agegrading/ 

Is this similar to what USAT does? 

I say keep on working. Nothing wrong with wanting to win. At this stage in my racing career I doubt I'll ever place OA, but I very much enjoy placing in my AG. Good news is, it's a bit easier as I get older. 

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by TJHammer Maybe I'm unique, but I learned a long time ago and teach ALL my students this: Competition in it's truest and purest form is the competition within oneself, to always be getting BETTER. *I should have prefaced that with fact that I AM HIGHLY competitive against others always, but if the root of one's competitiveness is be to better than others, well, then , there's a degree of disappointment at every corner because there's always someone bigger, better, faster, stronger. I would run circles around my 30y.o. self, and plan to run circles around my 40 y.o. self when I turn 50. Like the earlier post said...all about perspective. THAT SAID....I BETTER PODIUM in my duathlon in a few weeks

Many of the posts are actually saying that, to look at getting better. The question is in how to determine that as it's not necessarily just placing higher or a better time.

The USAT score that I mentioned above is a decent way to score yourself across AGs and courses.

I haven't thoroughly read all the replies, so I may be repeating something that was already said... Anywho...

I've been that "on the cusp" person. It can be a frustrating place to be. Years ago when I was at the top of my game, it was that "almost there" in the OA. Yeah, I was pretty fast, and when the big guns showed up I was the guy that was right behind them -- just out of the recognition. Fortunately I had a day job to depend on.

I still get AG placings in the few races I do, but really, I don't even pay attention to that when the race is on. I'm competing with whomever is around me, regardless of the number on their calf. And I judge my race by how I executed, and how spent I am at the finish, and if I'm in the medals, yahoo, and if not, I had a great time anyway. Fortunately I still have that day job...

Not saying you can't or shouldn't be disappointed by the "so close you can taste it", but really, who shows up on the day is totally our of your control. Look at the things you CAN control, work those, and let the chips fall where they may.

I did the Oly one year, and DNS'd the half 2 years in a row. Third time is a charm! CGI is a great race company and I expect the race to be well organized and extremely challenging.