General Discussion Triathlon Talk » IMAZ & Arizona 70.3 Rss Feed  
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2015-03-05 10:45 AM

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Subject: IMAZ & Arizona 70.3
Got a question about the time between these races. IMAZ will be my first IM and take place on 11/15. Ironman just announced the Arizona 70.3 taking place on 10/18 on pretty much the same course. Are these too close together? It would be great to get a preview of the course and know what to expect. Thoughts?


2015-03-05 1:57 PM
in reply to: tmoran07

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Subject: RE: IMAZ & Arizona 70.3
That's not much time between races and comes at a pretty critical time for most training plans. More typical timing would be 8 to 10 weeks before the IM.

I wouldn't do it if it were my first IM.
2015-03-05 3:57 PM
in reply to: #5098186

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Subject: RE: IMAZ & Arizona 70.3
It is not pretty much the same course as far as the bike is concerned.
2015-03-06 7:30 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: IMAZ & Arizona 70.3

Per the thread on ST.  This is from Rich Strauss, one of the EN coaches.

On the closed FB group that WTC uses to communicate with tri clubs in their tri club program, they specified it was the Soma bike course, with some additional lane closures, and 3 x 18mi loops. 

Soma course is here, on RidewithGPS.com 

I'm highly recommending that my squad not do this race: 

  • I can't imagine how this bike course can not be a total cluster, with the increase in reg's that WTC is certain to see over Soma, likely confirmed by this thread. Dunno about a crashfest, MadMax-esque death ride, but I imagine that nearly everyone will spend most the ride dodging, working their way through, around, being passed by massive amounts of traffic. My head just hurts thinking about 1800-2500 athletes flipping 12-turns in a half IM, not to mention all of the 2-way traffic, etc. I'll tell you as a moto-driver at IMAZ for the past several years, no friggin way would I be out there with an official on the back with my moto.
  • Nevermind the very bad idea of racing an HIM 4-wks out from your IM, or the suboptimal nature of using an HIM as an IM race rehearsal, this bike course is in no way related to the Ironman Arizona bike course. The key terrain feature of IMAZ is 9mi out, 9mi back, times 3, on the Beeline, with increasing winds throughout the day. This creates some IMAZ-specific considerations for knowing how to pace yourself on a 9mi sorta-false flat / long gradual downhill, with a headwind, tailwind, crosswind, how pacing errors express themselves on the last lap of the course, etc. All of ^this^ is missing with this 70.3 course. Instead, you'll be riding your tri bike, mostly in the hoods, through one of the most crowded urban metric century courses you can imagine.


Still, I imagine that many athletes, and local coaches, will see this race a great tuneup for IMAZ. It's not. You're much better off, 4wks out from IMAZ, locking yourself in the bars with your IM hat on, putting in big miles. 


So I told my crew that if they're still thinking about doing the race, let everyone else be a beta-tester for '15 and consider holding out for 2016. 

2015-03-06 9:33 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: IMAZ & Arizona 70.3
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Per the thread on ST.  This is from Rich Strauss, one of the EN coaches.

On the closed FB group that WTC uses to communicate with tri clubs in their tri club program, they specified it was the Soma bike course, with some additional lane closures, and 3 x 18mi loops. 

Soma course is here, on RidewithGPS.com 

I'm highly recommending that my squad not do this race: 

  • I can't imagine how this bike course can not be a total cluster, with the increase in reg's that WTC is certain to see over Soma, likely confirmed by this thread. Dunno about a crashfest, MadMax-esque death ride, but I imagine that nearly everyone will spend most the ride dodging, working their way through, around, being passed by massive amounts of traffic. My head just hurts thinking about 1800-2500 athletes flipping 12-turns in a half IM, not to mention all of the 2-way traffic, etc. I'll tell you as a moto-driver at IMAZ for the past several years, no friggin way would I be out there with an official on the back with my moto.
  • Nevermind the very bad idea of racing an HIM 4-wks out from your IM, or the suboptimal nature of using an HIM as an IM race rehearsal, this bike course is in no way related to the Ironman Arizona bike course. The key terrain feature of IMAZ is 9mi out, 9mi back, times 3, on the Beeline, with increasing winds throughout the day. This creates some IMAZ-specific considerations for knowing how to pace yourself on a 9mi sorta-false flat / long gradual downhill, with a headwind, tailwind, crosswind, how pacing errors express themselves on the last lap of the course, etc. All of ^this^ is missing with this 70.3 course. Instead, you'll be riding your tri bike, mostly in the hoods, through one of the most crowded urban metric century courses you can imagine.


Still, I imagine that many athletes, and local coaches, will see this race a great tuneup for IMAZ. It's not. You're much better off, 4wks out from IMAZ, locking yourself in the bars with your IM hat on, putting in big miles. 


So I told my crew that if they're still thinking about doing the race, let everyone else be a beta-tester for '15 and consider holding out for 2016. 




Holy Smokes. That is more than enough information for me to not want to do it. Even the Ironman website called it the "perfect tune up for the full-distance race in November". I am absolutely going to go with what you said and pass on the race. This being my first IM I don't want to screw up and injure myself or set myself back.

Thanks for the insights and feedback!
2015-03-17 10:18 PM
in reply to: tmoran07

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Subject: RE: IMAZ & Arizona 70.3
I always thought these two races (when it was SOMA 70.3) and IMAZ were too close together. I've know plenty of people to do both, and use the 70.3 as a practice day - as long as you treat it as a practice day.

I asked my coach and she said that it was not enough distance to be considered a good enough training day, but too close to really race it and be recovered enough to train and complete the IMAZ training.

i've done the SOMA course (same bike) 3x and Leadman once (same course but 4 loops) and had just about enough of the U-turns. Tempe is landlocked in that we aren't allowed to go out on the reservation (IMAZ course) and with the lightrail, we can't cross the tracks. That and city permits etc etc etc creates a multiple, tight course that you MUST be careful on! With more athletes on the course, all doing the same distance, it can get quite crazy.

I am always happy during the 3rd loop because most of the crazy fast guys/girls have already passed me, but you are stuck passing a lot of the slower riders and MANY people still don't know proper riding etiquette - so it can be dangerous if you aren't paying attention!

I'll probably volunteer to see how everything goes, but definitely not signing up!


2015-03-18 9:31 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: IMAZ & Arizona 70.3
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Per the thread on ST.  This is from Rich Strauss, one of the EN coaches.

On the closed FB group that WTC uses to communicate with tri clubs in their tri club program, they specified it was the Soma bike course, with some additional lane closures, and 3 x 18mi loops. 

Soma course is here, on RidewithGPS.com 

I'm highly recommending that my squad not do this race: 

  • I can't imagine how this bike course can not be a total cluster, with the increase in reg's that WTC is certain to see over Soma, likely confirmed by this thread. Dunno about a crashfest, MadMax-esque death ride, but I imagine that nearly everyone will spend most the ride dodging, working their way through, around, being passed by massive amounts of traffic. My head just hurts thinking about 1800-2500 athletes flipping 12-turns in a half IM, not to mention all of the 2-way traffic, etc. I'll tell you as a moto-driver at IMAZ for the past several years, no friggin way would I be out there with an official on the back with my moto.
  • Nevermind the very bad idea of racing an HIM 4-wks out from your IM, or the suboptimal nature of using an HIM as an IM race rehearsal, this bike course is in no way related to the Ironman Arizona bike course. The key terrain feature of IMAZ is 9mi out, 9mi back, times 3, on the Beeline, with increasing winds throughout the day. This creates some IMAZ-specific considerations for knowing how to pace yourself on a 9mi sorta-false flat / long gradual downhill, with a headwind, tailwind, crosswind, how pacing errors express themselves on the last lap of the course, etc. All of ^this^ is missing with this 70.3 course. Instead, you'll be riding your tri bike, mostly in the hoods, through one of the most crowded urban metric century courses you can imagine.


Still, I imagine that many athletes, and local coaches, will see this race a great tuneup for IMAZ. It's not. You're much better off, 4wks out from IMAZ, locking yourself in the bars with your IM hat on, putting in big miles. 


So I told my crew that if they're still thinking about doing the race, let everyone else be a beta-tester for '15 and consider holding out for 2016. 




Thanks for this. I've been debating signing up and wasn't sure one way or the other.
2015-03-19 6:33 AM
in reply to: Emer

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Subject: RE: IMAZ & Arizona 70.3

In full disclosure, I did register for the race but I did that knowing the course wasn't the IMAZ bike course, and the bike course might turn into one giant clusterf**k.  It fit too perfectly in my schedule to pass it up.

I'm not doing IMAZ anyway but did it in the past.

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