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2015-03-08 12:53 PM


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Subject: Barefoot Running 'Debate'
Think this is an interesting article...just sharing.

http://www.chrismcdougall.com/born-to-run/the-barefoot-running-deba...


2015-03-08 1:20 PM
in reply to: SGirl

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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'
It looks like that article is from 2010 and there has been quite a bit of research done since then.

barefoot running in general, forces people to land differently, the question is how this relations to things like injuries & efficiency.

in general terms, some padding in the shoe or under the foot appears to improve efficiency. There have been a couple different ways this was studied.
They have also looked at native barefoot kenyan runners and noted that some land midfoot naturally and some land heel first naturally. In other studies. the same runners when natural midfoot or heel strikers are asked to land the "other" way then show higher efficiency with heel landing, but lower impact forces with forefoot landing, even when it's not their natural strike pattern.

A recent successful lawsuit supported the evidence that simply changing shoes to a minimalist/barefoot type may actually increase injuries.


I have my own personal thoughts about what all this evidence sums up to, but the last paragraph of the article sums it up nicely:


But ultimately, the debate isn’t about Bare Soles vs. Shoes. It’s about learning to run gently. Master that, and you can wear — or not wear — anything you please.

2015-03-08 2:28 PM
in reply to: AdventureBear


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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'
Originally posted by AdventureBear

It looks like that article is from 2010 and there has been quite a bit of research done since then.

barefoot running in general, forces people to land differently, the question is how this relations to things like injuries & efficiency.

in general terms, some padding in the shoe or under the foot appears to improve efficiency. There have been a couple different ways this was studied.
They have also looked at native barefoot kenyan runners and noted that some land midfoot naturally and some land heel first naturally. In other studies. the same runners when natural midfoot or heel strikers are asked to land the "other" way then show higher efficiency with heel landing, but lower impact forces with forefoot landing, even when it's not their natural strike pattern.

A recent successful lawsuit supported the evidence that simply changing shoes to a minimalist/barefoot type may actually increase injuries.


I have my own personal thoughts about what all this evidence sums up to, but the last paragraph of the article sums it up nicely:


But ultimately, the debate isn’t about Bare Soles vs. Shoes. It’s about learning to run gently. Master that, and you can wear — or not wear — anything you please.




i agree with the last part too.
I prefer minimalist shoes, I run better, more efficiently, faster, although I'll never be an elite runner. I don't attribute my gains with running to minimalist footwear certainly, but definitely has lessened the strain from regular running shoes. I didn't realize the article was that dated, sorry about that!
2015-03-08 8:47 PM
in reply to: SGirl

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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'
I've decided that barefoot running is one of those topics that separates people completely, there is no fence sitting!

I believe it is beneficial, I have read Born to Run (which makes a huge case for it, or at least, minimal foot wear and learning to actually run) 3 or 4 times now. I will speak from my experience. I started running 3 times a week two years ago, and started tri-ing at the start of last year. Since then the amount I have read on the subject has increased my knowledge, but I feel nothing compares to actually trying it out for yourself!

Barefoot running on grass a few times a week WILL help your technique immensely. I am not saying you can't do it in shoes, but when you go barefoot (and grass makes it gentle) you can't land hard. You will smooth out your technique and foot landing hugely. Since I started doing it once or twice a week, and paying attention to how many strides you make it a minute (it should be around 180), I have gotten faster, going further, and, touch wood, no injuries. I am no longer landing on my heels and have progressed from a reasonably padded shoe to a pair of 'racing flats' and I love them!

This is all from my experience, so I hope it helps!
2015-03-09 6:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'

Originally posted by AdventureBear It looks like that article is from 2010 and there has been quite a bit of research done since then.

Some lawsuits done since then too. 

(decided to go half pink font)



Edited by GMAN 19030 2015-03-09 6:46 AM
2015-03-09 7:54 AM
in reply to: SGirl

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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'

Is there a debate anymore?  I thought the hype died out.  I think the whole movement was just another attack on heel strikers. 



2015-03-09 8:42 AM
in reply to: Clempson

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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'

I think the debate was settled with a more, it doesn't matter about the "strike" as it is about loading the foot under your center of gravity.

2015-03-09 9:02 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'

Originally posted by dmiller5

I think the debate was settled with a more, it doesn't matter about the "strike" as it is about loading the foot under your center of gravity.

Yes, but accomplishing that with a heel strike would be awkward as hell for most.

2015-03-09 10:17 AM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'

Originally posted by AdventureBear It looks like that article is from 2010 and there has been quite a bit of research done since then. barefoot running in general, forces people to land differently, the question is how this relations to things like injuries & efficiency. in general terms, some padding in the shoe or under the foot appears to improve efficiency. There have been a couple different ways this was studied. They have also looked at native barefoot kenyan runners and noted that some land midfoot naturally and some land heel first naturally. In other studies. the same runners when natural midfoot or heel strikers are asked to land the "other" way then show higher efficiency with heel landing, but lower impact forces with forefoot landing, even when it's not their natural strike pattern. A recent successful lawsuit supported the evidence that simply changing shoes to a minimalist/barefoot type may actually increase injuries. I have my own personal thoughts about what all this evidence sums up to, but the last paragraph of the article sums it up nicely:
But ultimately, the debate isn’t about Bare Soles vs. Shoes. It’s about learning to run gently. Master that, and you can wear — or not wear — anything you please.

x2.

Plus, the caveat that anytime you change something (footwear, mechanics, etc.), you reduce volume and intensity drastically, and begin progression again from there to allow your body to adapt to the changed stresses.

 

2015-03-09 10:18 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

I think the debate was settled with a more, it doesn't matter about the "strike" as it is about loading the foot under your center of gravity.

Yes, but accomplishing that with a heel strike would be awkward as hell for most.

I think you'd be surprised how many excellent runners' heel is the first thing to touch the ground.

 

2015-03-09 10:46 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'

Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

I think the debate was settled with a more, it doesn't matter about the "strike" as it is about loading the foot under your center of gravity.

Yes, but accomplishing that with a heel strike would be awkward as hell for most.

I think you'd be surprised how many excellent runners' heel is the first thing to touch the ground.

 

Probably, but it seems like it would be awkward to hit with heel first while said heel is under your center of gravity.



2015-03-09 11:54 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

I think the debate was settled with a more, it doesn't matter about the "strike" as it is about loading the foot under your center of gravity.

Yes, but accomplishing that with a heel strike would be awkward as hell for most.

I think you'd be surprised how many excellent runners' heel is the first thing to touch the ground.

 

Probably, but it seems like it would be awkward to hit with heel first while said heel is under your center of gravity.

That would be, however, use of the term "strike" tends to be misleading. The first contact out front can be with whatever. More load is applied as the foot comes underneath. It doesn't all happen the instant the foot contacts the ground.

2015-03-09 12:16 PM
in reply to: engima

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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'

Originally posted by engima ... Barefoot running on grass a few times a week WILL help your technique immensely. I am not saying you can't do it in shoes, but when you go barefoot (and grass makes it gentle) you can't land hard. ...

if the whole idea is to change your stride, you don't need to go barefoot to do it.  I made a playlist of 180bpm music and just run to it.  It's near impossible to overstride at that cadence.

but, if you like running barefoot on grass (we don't have any where I live in the desert), by all means... enjoy.

2015-03-09 8:48 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest


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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

I think the debate was settled with a more, it doesn't matter about the "strike" as it is about loading the foot under your center of gravity.

Yes, but accomplishing that with a heel strike would be awkward as hell for most.

I think you'd be surprised how many excellent runners' heel is the first thing to touch the ground.

 




I've read this, and was surprised. I hate heel striking, and like the minimalist shoes because it 'broke' me of that 'habit.' I found myself running better, more efficiently with minimalist shoes.

Maybe it's all in my head? lol

2015-03-09 8:53 PM
in reply to: engima


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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'
Originally posted by engima

I've decided that barefoot running is one of those topics that separates people completely, there is no fence sitting!

I believe it is beneficial, I have read Born to Run (which makes a huge case for it, or at least, minimal foot wear and learning to actually run) 3 or 4 times now. I will speak from my experience. I started running 3 times a week two years ago, and started tri-ing at the start of last year. Since then the amount I have read on the subject has increased my knowledge, but I feel nothing compares to actually trying it out for yourself!

Barefoot running on grass a few times a week WILL help your technique immensely. I am not saying you can't do it in shoes, but when you go barefoot (and grass makes it gentle) you can't land hard. You will smooth out your technique and foot landing hugely. Since I started doing it once or twice a week, and paying attention to how many strides you make it a minute (it should be around 180), I have gotten faster, going further, and, touch wood, no injuries. I am no longer landing on my heels and have progressed from a reasonably padded shoe to a pair of 'racing flats' and I love them!

This is all from my experience, so I hope it helps!
Thank you for this comment. I have never run barefoot, but this makes a ton of sense. No injuries, that is so amazing. I think I might try it. I found a grassy area during my run today, (I took a different route than I normally do) and could easily run on that barefoot for maybe 15 minutes to get the hang of it.

Funny, we did this as kids. lol I remember running barefoot as a kid, anyway.

Again, thanks...and glad this has helped you.
2015-03-09 9:11 PM
in reply to: SGirl

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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'

Originally posted by SGirl
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

I think the debate was settled with a more, it doesn't matter about the "strike" as it is about loading the foot under your center of gravity.

Yes, but accomplishing that with a heel strike would be awkward as hell for most.

I think you'd be surprised how many excellent runners' heel is the first thing to touch the ground.

 

I've read this, and was surprised. I hate heel striking, and like the minimalist shoes because it 'broke' me of that 'habit.' I found myself running better, more efficiently with minimalist shoes. Maybe it's all in my head? lol

Notice how he phrased it as the "heel being the first thing to touch the ground". The heel being first part of the foot to make contact isn't necessarily going to be the issue. It's how effective one is at absorbing the load that comes from the landing. With good timing, it'll ramp up more smoothly and be heaviest when right underneath you. Or under or center of gravity, as mentioned earlier. When not done so well, that ramp up will have a spike in it. Some braking ends up getting in there and the forces being absorbed can be higher.

I've used things like Vibrams and other similar things, but had little effect. They sure said "no" a lot to when things were wrong, but weren't a big help in finding what was right. Running faster in more regular shoes helped to do that. Running very fast repeats for rather short durations did much more in figuring out how things should change. I guess some people learn differently than others, but a barrage of "no" wasn't really effective for me.



2015-03-10 1:21 AM
in reply to: SGirl

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Subject: RE: Barefoot Running 'Debate'
Originally posted by morey000

Originally posted by engima ... Barefoot running on grass a few times a week WILL help your technique immensely. I am not saying you can't do it in shoes, but when you go barefoot (and grass makes it gentle) you can't land hard. ...

if the whole idea is to change your stride, you don't need to go barefoot to do it.  I made a playlist of 180bpm music and just run to it.  It's near impossible to overstride at that cadence.

but, if you like running barefoot on grass (we don't have any where I live in the desert), by all means... enjoy.




Thus why I said you don't HAVE to go barefoot. I run with shoes 95% of the time, I would like to do barefoot repeats (and have done hill sprints etc bare) but I don't do it very consistantly, but I HAVE made a habit of making sure I am close to 180 rpm ALL the time. I merely meant if you do shun the shoes, you can't land poorly because it hurts



Originally posted by SGirl Thank you for this comment. I have never run barefoot, but this makes a ton of sense. No injuries, that is so amazing. I think I might try it. I found a grassy area during my run today, (I took a different route than I normally do) and could easily run on that barefoot for maybe 15 minutes to get the hang of it.

Funny, we did this as kids. lol I remember running barefoot as a kid, anyway.

Again, thanks...and glad this has helped you.


Not a problem. As I said, I read about it, and thought, that makes a lot of sense and I gave it a shot. A lot of people harp on about things without ever having tried them. This is something that I fully believe has helped me, but if you give it a shot and it doesn't work, that's fine as well. No two people are the same

I would suggest starting gently, you're feet won't be used to the different after being shod for their whole lives, I had a little bit of pain in my knee the first few times, and that was from trying to much, to quickly I believe.

The kid point is a good one! Bear in mind I am no barefoot running hippie :P I have merely tried it a little bit and enjoyed what I did!
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