General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Run intervals-How Hard Rss Feed  
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2015-03-26 2:00 PM


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Subject: Run intervals-How Hard
Any time I have done run intervals, I always do them extremely hard. However when I read about different run workouts, I rarely see them call for anything faster than race pace. Let me clarify. No matter what distance I'm training for, if I am doing 0.25 or 0.5 mile repeats, I am doing them much harder than my 5k race pace. So if my current 5k pace is around 6:20, I'm going to be doing intervals at 6 or below. Basically I always go as hard as I can maintain for the interval. Am I going about this wrong?

To me, it seems like doing 0.5 mi intervals at 5k race pace would not make me faster. If I can sustain a pace for 20 min, what good is it doing me for 3 min? I can't help but compare it to weightlifting. If I can bench 225 10 times, am I going to do a workout that involves doing 225 3 times? Nope.

So how do you approach your run repeats? Does it actually help to run intervals at a pace you can already sustain for a longer period of time?


2015-03-26 2:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Run intervals-How Hard

Originally posted by mchadcota2 Any time I have done run intervals, I always do them extremely hard. However when I read about different run workouts, I rarely see them call for anything faster than race pace. Let me clarify. No matter what distance I'm training for, if I am doing 0.25 or 0.5 mile repeats, I am doing them much harder than my 5k race pace. So if my current 5k pace is around 6:20, I'm going to be doing intervals at 6 or below. Basically I always go as hard as I can maintain for the interval. Am I going about this wrong? To me, it seems like doing 0.5 mi intervals at 5k race pace would not make me faster. If I can sustain a pace for 20 min, what good is it doing me for 3 min? I can't help but compare it to weightlifting. If I can bench 225 10 times, am I going to do a workout that involves doing 225 3 times? Nope. So how do you approach your run repeats? Does it actually help to run intervals at a pace you can already sustain for a longer period of time?

Probably.

You should do your intervals at a pace that you can maintain for the set.  If you are doing 10 X 400 then your pace and rest time should be one that you can maintain for each interval.  You cannot go all out for 10 intervals and hold the same pace.  Once your interval time starts falling you are losing  the benefit of the intervals.  This is why you see "race pace" so often used.

To use your analogy.....if you can bench press 225 10 times then you would do 225 3 times but for 10-15 sets.  Over time, your 225 X 10 will increase because of it.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-03-26 2:08 PM
2015-03-26 2:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Run intervals-How Hard

Same answer as last time you asked the question.  Yes, you are wrong.  Or more precisely, there are reasons to run run intervals at a variety of different intensities as you try to elicit different adaptations and as you work them into an entire training program.  So, sometimes, what you are doing is "good".  Other times, it may be "bad".  Of course, it's not just the pace, it's also the duration.  Intervals of 1/4 - 1/2 mi may or may not be appropriate for what you are trying to achieve.  And, as LB notes, the number of reps (and rest interval) can be altered as well.



Edited by JohnnyKay 2015-03-26 2:10 PM
2015-03-26 2:10 PM
in reply to: mchadcota2

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Seattle
Subject: RE: Run intervals-How Hard

Buy/check out this book: Jack Daniels' Running Formula

It very specifically details out what different adaptations are being made from different workouts, how those paces are determined, how often you should do them and how to orient a training structure.

I know you probably want a quicker answer. And someone will likely give it. But I feel it's important to understand the bigger picture. 

2015-03-26 2:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Run intervals-How Hard

 

http://www.coacheseducation.com/endur/jack-daniels-aug-00.htm

Here is an abbreviated version of JD's workouts.  In part 4 link are tables that give specific pace targets.



Edited by popsracer 2015-03-26 2:17 PM
2015-03-26 2:21 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Run intervals-How Hard

Originally posted by JohnnyKay

Same answer as last time you asked the question.  Yes, you are wrong.  Or more precisely, there are reasons to run run intervals at a variety of different intensities as you try to elicit different adaptations and as you work them into an entire training program.  So, sometimes, what you are doing is "good".  Other times, it may be "bad".  Of course, it's not just the pace, it's also the duration.  Intervals of 1/4 - 1/2 mi may or may not be appropriate for what you are trying to achieve.  And, as LB notes, the number of reps (and rest interval) can be altered as well.

The last time I remember was with bike intervals. And fortunately there is a lot of overlap in the methods between the two. But still need to do them for each sport to get the adaptations.



2015-03-26 2:26 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Oakville
Subject: RE: Run intervals-How Hard

http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm

If you're lazy like me and don't want to scroll through the tables, above is the link to the JD VDOT calculator which will give you various interval paces based on a recent race time.

2015-03-26 2:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Run intervals-How Hard

Originally posted by mchadcota2 Any time I have done run intervals, I always do them extremely hard. However when I read about different run workouts, I rarely see them call for anything faster than race pace. Let me clarify. No matter what distance I'm training for, if I am doing 0.25 or 0.5 mile repeats, I am doing them much harder than my 5k race pace. So if my current 5k pace is around 6:20, I'm going to be doing intervals at 6 or below. Basically I always go as hard as I can maintain for the interval. Am I going about this wrong? To me, it seems like doing 0.5 mi intervals at 5k race pace would not make me faster. If I can sustain a pace for 20 min, what good is it doing me for 3 min? I can't help but compare it to weightlifting. If I can bench 225 10 times, am I going to do a workout that involves doing 225 3 times? Nope. So how do you approach your run repeats? Does it actually help to run intervals at a pace you can already sustain for a longer period of time?

Matt Fitzgerald triathlon plans have all kinds of speedwork workouts.  Here's a few examples:

WU: Run 10 minutes @ low aerobic intensity
MS: 18 x 30 seconds @ VO2max intensity with 30-second active recoveries @ low aerobic intensity
CD: Run 10 minutes @ low aerobic intensity

WU: Run 10 minutes @ low aerobic intensity
MS: 6 x 3 minutes @ VO2max intensity with 3-minute active recoveries @ low aerobic intensity
CD: Run 10 minutes @ low aerobic intensity

WU: 10 minutes @ low aerobic intensity
MS: 16 x 30 seconds @ Speed with 2-minute active recoveries
CD: 10 minutes @ low aerobic intensity

For me VO2 pace is ~6:00 which was ~my 5k pace and speed was anything below 5:36.  Basically all out.  Fitzgerald uses a modified version of VDOT in his plans.

I suggested this to you in ST, but you really should spend the $65 bucks for a Matt Fitzgerald plan on Training Peaks. Get one of his plans for sprint or olympic, and follow it for the 16 weeks.  You'll get faster and learn a lot about properly pacing yourself throughout the week in training as well as learning how to balance your training load.  Before his plans I realized I never had a proper recovery week, which led to burnout for a while.  It sounds like you pretty much go through this every season.



Edited by msteiner 2015-03-26 2:57 PM
2015-03-26 3:03 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Run intervals-How Hard

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by JohnnyKay

Same answer as last time you asked the question.  Yes, you are wrong.  Or more precisely, there are reasons to run run intervals at a variety of different intensities as you try to elicit different adaptations and as you work them into an entire training program.  So, sometimes, what you are doing is "good".  Other times, it may be "bad".  Of course, it's not just the pace, it's also the duration.  Intervals of 1/4 - 1/2 mi may or may not be appropriate for what you are trying to achieve.  And, as LB notes, the number of reps (and rest interval) can be altered as well.

The last time I remember was with bike intervals. And fortunately there is a lot of overlap in the methods between the two. But still need to do them for each sport to get the adaptations.

You are probably right it was the bike before and run now.  But it's the same answer for the same reasons.

OP, I suggest you get a book like the Daniels one suggested.  Don't look at a bunch of trianing plans.  Read the book.  Understand the concepts.  Then look at a (good) training plan and see how it integrates those concepts and why you will want to use a variety of intensities even within 'interval' training.  Then, if you still have questions, ask away.  You'll be in a much better place to ask questions that give you the information you need to make a decision about your training.  Right now, you are likely to get a jumble of ideas.  None of them may necessarily be 'bad' or 'wrong', but it does not seem like you will have a good idea how to integrate them into your full training program.  A good plan is more than just an assortment of good workouts.

2015-03-26 3:43 PM
in reply to: mchadcota2


439
10010010010025
nashville, Tennessee
Subject: RE: Run intervals-How Hard
Thanks. I'm going to check out some of these sources.
2015-03-26 4:39 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Run intervals-How Hard

Originally posted by JohnnyKay

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by JohnnyKay

Same answer as last time you asked the question.  Yes, you are wrong.  Or more precisely, there are reasons to run run intervals at a variety of different intensities as you try to elicit different adaptations and as you work them into an entire training program.  So, sometimes, what you are doing is "good".  Other times, it may be "bad".  Of course, it's not just the pace, it's also the duration.  Intervals of 1/4 - 1/2 mi may or may not be appropriate for what you are trying to achieve.  And, as LB notes, the number of reps (and rest interval) can be altered as well.

The last time I remember was with bike intervals. And fortunately there is a lot of overlap in the methods between the two. But still need to do them for each sport to get the adaptations.

You are probably right it was the bike before and run now.  But it's the same answer for the same reasons.

OP, I suggest you get a book like the Daniels one suggested.  Don't look at a bunch of trianing plans.  Read the book.  Understand the concepts.  Then look at a (good) training plan and see how it integrates those concepts and why you will want to use a variety of intensities even within 'interval' training.  Then, if you still have questions, ask away.  You'll be in a much better place to ask questions that give you the information you need to make a decision about your training.  Right now, you are likely to get a jumble of ideas.  None of them may necessarily be 'bad' or 'wrong', but it does not seem like you will have a good idea how to integrate them into your full training program.  A good plan is more than just an assortment of good workouts.

This is great advice.  It really transformed my training when the actual physical adaptations gained from different types of workouts/paces were explained. 



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