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2015-03-27 9:03 AM

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Subject: Most Difficult

Just for fun, which of these do you think is the most difficult.

2:00 Olympic

4:30 Half

sub 10:00 Ironman

 



2015-03-27 9:06 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult
I would think the longer distances are harder to get a faster time coming from an AG perspective. Mostly based on distance and effort/speed you need to maintain over said distance
2015-03-27 9:08 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult
I think the 4:30 half would be the most difficult.
2015-03-27 9:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

None of these are anywhere near easy, but I'm looking at the Olympic for most difficult.



Edited by brigby1 2015-03-27 9:21 AM
2015-03-27 9:22 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

They're all equally impossible for me.

Mark

2015-03-27 9:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Most Difficult
Sprint 1.00.20
Oly 2.02.40
HIM 4.41
IM 11.28 (only 1 race)

I would say it's course dependent. My sprint PR was on an average course with tough competition. Oly was an easy course with a couple of fast guys, HIM was average difficulty with a little slack on the bike. IM Whistler is not easy...

All things equal I will say 2.00 Oly. Esp. for AG racers ... swim matters more in Oly and mosy AGers are not great swimmers (speaking as an AGer who beats many Pros in the swim).

Edited by simpsonbo 2015-03-27 9:30 AM


2015-03-27 9:29 AM
in reply to: RedCorvette

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

There are people who have hit 10 hours in an IM who can't do a 2 hour Oly.....so there is that.  But you pretty much need 2 hour Oly speed to hit 4:30 in a HIM.. For those reasons I'm going to say the HIM mark is toughest.

2015-03-27 9:33 AM
in reply to: #5103993

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult
None of those would ever be easy but a sub-2:00 Olympic is, IMO, the way more unattainable time. That's just raw speed that's genetically out of reach for most no matter the hard work and dedication.
2015-03-27 10:07 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

Originally posted by GMAN 19030 None of those would ever be easy but a sub-2:00 Olympic is, IMO, the way more unattainable time. That's just raw speed that's genetically out of reach for most no matter the hard work and dedication.

Agree on the raw speed and genetics.  You could throw in a 54-56 minute sprint for that matter.......there is a HUGE segment of the triathlon population (almost everybody) who could never attain that no matter how much they worked.  Your point about what is actually attainable, no matter the difficulty, is valid.

2015-03-27 10:20 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

so splits for the 2 hour Olympic.

assume 2 min for transitions

21 min swim

58 min bike

39 min run

2015-03-27 10:21 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult
I was just thinking about time distributions on races the other day. I see a lot of variability person to person. Some folks are super fast on the short races and slow way down on long ones. Others stay flat. Looking back at my PRs (granted this is from a whopping 10 months of data) I'm pretty flat across distances. I actually graphed it the other day...cause I love graphs. Regarding your specific question, I can't speak for the IM yet, but I'm 28 minutes from the Oly goal and 29 minutes from the HIM....so about the same time for a race that's over twice as long. I don't believe I personally have the inherent speed to ever go under 2:00 in an Oly...but a 4:30 HIM and a sub 10 IM I think are attainable. Once I'm at a pace I can keep going all stinkin day. After my 4:59 HIM I ate a half a pizza, then ran a mile out to run the last mile in with my brother, so I wasn't exactly out of gas. The paces for a sub 10 IM are pretty close to my "all day" pace. The Oly just won't happen for me.



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2015-03-27 10:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

Originally posted by dmiller5

so splits for the 2 hour Olympic.

assume 2 min for transitions

21 min swim

58 min bike

39 min run

I think you have to give yourself more than 2 minutes in transition or pick your course well.  There are quite a few loooong runs out of the water these days.  knowing your times, you have the speed to do it......but you're going to have to have a really good day and good course.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-03-27 10:27 AM
2015-03-27 10:27 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

Originally posted by dmiller5

Just for fun, which of these do you think is the most difficult.

2:00 Olympic

4:30 Half

sub 10:00 Ironman

 

That's the exact order I would put them in.

2015-03-27 10:35 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by dmiller5

so splits for the 2 hour Olympic.

assume 2 min for transitions

21 min swim

58 min bike

39 min run

I think you have to give yourself more than 2 minutes in transition or pick your course well.  There are quite a few loooong runs out of the water these days.  knowing your times, you have the speed to do it......but you're going to have to have a really good day and good course.

haha, I want a 2:05 first, then can start thinking about 2 hours.

really I think the hardest part of the 2 hour Olympic is that you have to be ON in every event. You can't lose concentration.  For the Half ironman you can have one event be a few minutes off and still hit that 4:30, you have the room to make it up.

2015-03-27 10:42 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by dmiller5

so splits for the 2 hour Olympic.

assume 2 min for transitions

21 min swim

58 min bike

39 min run

I think you have to give yourself more than 2 minutes in transition or pick your course well.  There are quite a few loooong runs out of the water these days.  knowing your times, you have the speed to do it......but you're going to have to have a really good day and good course.

haha, I want a 2:05 first, then can start thinking about 2 hours.

really I think the hardest part of the 2 hour Olympic is that you have to be ON in every event. You can't lose concentration.  For the Half ironman you can have one event be a few minutes off and still hit that 4:30, you have the room to make it up.

I would think in your specific case hitting the bike right is key.  You don't have a ton of room to play with on the run so if you miss your bike numbers you'll be sunk.

2015-03-27 12:08 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult
Originally posted by dmiller5

Just for fun, which of these do you think is the most difficult.

2:00 Olympic

4:30 Half

sub 10:00 Ironman

 




I would say the 2hr oly is the hardest to hit. screw anything up in your race and you won't hit it.


2015-03-27 1:04 PM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult
All of these fall in the NO WAY IN HELL category for me, so I have no idea how to begin to classify...
2015-03-27 1:31 PM
in reply to: KatieLimb

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult
The only one that I hit was a sub 10 hour Ironman (branded) Triathlon (70.3).
2015-03-27 2:09 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult
Originally posted by dmiller5

Just for fun, which of these do you think is the most difficult.

2:00 Olympic

4:30 Half

sub 10:00 Ironman

 





Only speaking from my experience and abilities.

The sub 10 hour ironman would be my most difficult race. My best was 12:20

Under 2:00 Oly. would be next difficult on my list. Best was 2:30.

Only did one HIM and it was 5:05. I didn't push myself since it was my first HIM so maybe could get closer to the 4:30. I had some really long transitions on that race as well.

My best races have been sprints. Have hit the 1:00 hour mark once.

My age is 51 so improving on the above times would be a challenge.
2015-03-27 2:41 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult
Originally posted by dmiller5

so splits for the 2 hour Olympic.

assume 2 min for transitions

21 min swim

58 min bike

39 min run



Assume the same 2hr Oly athlete does a HIM

As per your splits

The 21min Oly is 1:24/100m.
Add 2sec (at most) over 1900m and it gives a 27 15 min HIM swim


To get 58min bike, assume 290 watts with a CRR of .004 and a cda of .3 will give you 58 minutes. Those assume very little wind and flat for a 70kg male.
This requires a FTP of about 305watts if you do it at 95% of FTP. This is a solid 4.35 w/kg, which makes sense
This means you could do the HIM at 244 watts and at the same cda/crr would give 2h19. (assuming you do it at 80% of FTP)

For the run, to do 39min, let’s assume 38min open 10k. That’s a 55 VDOT and HIM run of about 1h30

Add them up 27m15 swim + 2h19 bike + 1h30 run = 4h16ish HIM without transitions

Maybe a slightly longer transition, but a 2h Oly is probably close to a 4h20 HIM.


A 2hr Oly gets you top 3 at Worlds in the 40-44AG. A 10h IM doesn't even get you a KQ same AG.


2015-03-27 2:43 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by dmiller5

so splits for the 2 hour Olympic.

assume 2 min for transitions

21 min swim

58 min bike

39 min run

Assume the same 2hr Oly athlete does a HIM As per your splits The 21min Oly is 1:24/100m. Add 2sec (at most) over 1900m and it gives a 27 15 min HIM swim To get 58min bike, assume 290 watts with a CRR of .004 and a cda of .3 will give you 58 minutes. Those assume very little wind and flat for a 70kg male. This requires a FTP of about 305watts if you do it at 95% of FTP. This is a solid 4.35 w/kg, which makes sense This means you could do the HIM at 244 watts and at the same cda/crr would give 2h19. (assuming you do it at 80% of FTP) For the run, to do 39min, let’s assume 38min open 10k. That’s a 55 VDOT and HIM run of about 1h30 Add them up 27m15 swim + 2h19 bike + 1h30 run = 4h16ish HIM without transitions Maybe a slightly longer transition, but a 2h Oly is probably close to a 4h20 HIM. A 2hr Oly gets you top 3 at Worlds in the 40-44AG. A 10h IM doesn't even get you a KQ same AG.

well look at 25-29 and you don't sniff podium



2015-03-27 2:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Most Difficult
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by dmiller5

so splits for the 2 hour Olympic.

assume 2 min for transitions

21 min swim

58 min bike

39 min run

Assume the same 2hr Oly athlete does a HIM As per your splits The 21min Oly is 1:24/100m. Add 2sec (at most) over 1900m and it gives a 27 15 min HIM swim To get 58min bike, assume 290 watts with a CRR of .004 and a cda of .3 will give you 58 minutes. Those assume very little wind and flat for a 70kg male. This requires a FTP of about 305watts if you do it at 95% of FTP. This is a solid 4.35 w/kg, which makes sense This means you could do the HIM at 244 watts and at the same cda/crr would give 2h19. (assuming you do it at 80% of FTP) For the run, to do 39min, let’s assume 38min open 10k. That’s a 55 VDOT and HIM run of about 1h30 Add them up 27m15 swim + 2h19 bike + 1h30 run = 4h16ish HIM without transitions Maybe a slightly longer transition, but a 2h Oly is probably close to a 4h20 HIM. A 2hr Oly gets you top 3 at Worlds in the 40-44AG. A 10h IM doesn't even get you a KQ same AG.

well look at 25-29 and you don't sniff podium




Top 3 in 25-29 went under 2h. 4th went just above 2h
3rd went 1h59.14.....not that far

Edited by marcag 2015-03-27 2:46 PM
2015-03-27 2:53 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by dmiller5

so splits for the 2 hour Olympic.

assume 2 min for transitions

21 min swim

58 min bike

39 min run

Assume the same 2hr Oly athlete does a HIM As per your splits The 21min Oly is 1:24/100m. Add 2sec (at most) over 1900m and it gives a 27 15 min HIM swim To get 58min bike, assume 290 watts with a CRR of .004 and a cda of .3 will give you 58 minutes. Those assume very little wind and flat for a 70kg male. This requires a FTP of about 305watts if you do it at 95% of FTP. This is a solid 4.35 w/kg, which makes sense This means you could do the HIM at 244 watts and at the same cda/crr would give 2h19. (assuming you do it at 80% of FTP) For the run, to do 39min, let’s assume 38min open 10k. That’s a 55 VDOT and HIM run of about 1h30 Add them up 27m15 swim + 2h19 bike + 1h30 run = 4h16ish HIM without transitions Maybe a slightly longer transition, but a 2h Oly is probably close to a 4h20 HIM. A 2hr Oly gets you top 3 at Worlds in the 40-44AG. A 10h IM doesn't even get you a KQ same AG.

Could such an assessment be made from pro women times as well?

I think the IF for the Oly bike is a bit more aggressive than the IF for the HIM, relative to each race.

2015-03-27 2:53 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by dmiller5

so splits for the 2 hour Olympic.

assume 2 min for transitions

21 min swim

58 min bike

39 min run

Assume the same 2hr Oly athlete does a HIM As per your splits The 21min Oly is 1:24/100m. Add 2sec (at most) over 1900m and it gives a 27 15 min HIM swim To get 58min bike, assume 290 watts with a CRR of .004 and a cda of .3 will give you 58 minutes. Those assume very little wind and flat for a 70kg male. This requires a FTP of about 305watts if you do it at 95% of FTP. This is a solid 4.35 w/kg, which makes sense This means you could do the HIM at 244 watts and at the same cda/crr would give 2h19. (assuming you do it at 80% of FTP) For the run, to do 39min, let’s assume 38min open 10k. That’s a 55 VDOT and HIM run of about 1h30 Add them up 27m15 swim + 2h19 bike + 1h30 run = 4h16ish HIM without transitions Maybe a slightly longer transition, but a 2h Oly is probably close to a 4h20 HIM. A 2hr Oly gets you top 3 at Worlds in the 40-44AG. A 10h IM doesn't even get you a KQ same AG.

well look at 25-29 and you don't sniff podium

Top 3 in 25-29 went under 2h. 4th went just above 2h 3rd went 1h59.14.....not that far

Take a look at US nationals in milwuakee's times, Edmonton was a very hilly and slow course.

2015-03-27 2:55 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Most Difficult

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by dmiller5

so splits for the 2 hour Olympic.

assume 2 min for transitions

21 min swim

58 min bike

39 min run

Assume the same 2hr Oly athlete does a HIM As per your splits The 21min Oly is 1:24/100m. Add 2sec (at most) over 1900m and it gives a 27 15 min HIM swim To get 58min bike, assume 290 watts with a CRR of .004 and a cda of .3 will give you 58 minutes. Those assume very little wind and flat for a 70kg male. This requires a FTP of about 305watts if you do it at 95% of FTP. This is a solid 4.35 w/kg, which makes sense This means you could do the HIM at 244 watts and at the same cda/crr would give 2h19. (assuming you do it at 80% of FTP) For the run, to do 39min, let’s assume 38min open 10k. That’s a 55 VDOT and HIM run of about 1h30 Add them up 27m15 swim + 2h19 bike + 1h30 run = 4h16ish HIM without transitions Maybe a slightly longer transition, but a 2h Oly is probably close to a 4h20 HIM. A 2hr Oly gets you top 3 at Worlds in the 40-44AG. A 10h IM doesn't even get you a KQ same AG.

well look at 25-29 and you don't sniff podium

Top 3 in 25-29 went under 2h. 4th went just above 2h 3rd went 1h59.14.....not that far

Take a look at US nationals in milwuakee's times, Edmonton was a very hilly and slow course.

Yep.....top 18 were 2 hours or under at USA nationals in 25-29 AG.  There is no comparison to that course and the course in Edmonton. 

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