How do you run so damn fast!!? (Page 2)

Curious, what do people think is "fast?"

What kind of speed do you need on the men's and women's sides to AG podium, win local races, be competitive on a national level?

I have no idea about AG podiums.  For overall podiums in AG sprint races on the men's side you need right at 17:00 5K off the bike to consistently win races and get on the podium on a national level.....maybe a tad lower if you can't swim well....the bike becomes a wash at that distance in that distance at the top end.  You can likely get by on 18-19 minutes in some/most local races, depending on who shows up and how well you bike.  From what I've seen you need an open 5K of 15:30-16:00 to consistently hit that 17 minute mark in a sprint tri.

What distance, for sprints

win local races (men)-  

Swim: 1 - 1:10 / 100 yd

Bike: + 25MPH

Run: sub 6:00 / M

men's sides to AG podium

Unfortunately for me in M40 - 44, very close to the above.

It does irritate he how fast BT gets to the genes being your limiter argument.

There's nothing factually wrong with what LB says but I think there are sooo many people that never achieve their best because they don't train smart, eat smart and rest smart.  Once you've done all those things - consistently - for a long time.  Then you're down to that genetic limiter but hardly anyone gets there.

It's like intelligence.  Some people get it faster, some people seem more naturally smart - but there are just as many lazy smart people as others and the majority of them can be caught given time and patience.  

It's the same with training - it might take many people longer to get to xx:xx time for a certain discipline/triathlon but it's very likely that you'll be able to get pretty dam close given the right application.

Not having a go at LB, we've had this discussion a few times.  Like I said, he's right but don't tell yourself you can't do something until you've really tried. Then accept your lot.

Your swim time is really fast on the local level in open water......your right at that sub 1:00 in the pool.  Yeah, in a big regional race that would be expected for the very front end.....but I haven't seen it in local racing much.  I don't see many sub 6 pace miles at the local level either.....I see quite a bit of 6:30ish.  Those times you listed would put you in the top 20, out of 1100 or so overall at Sprint Nationals.  Yeah.....some of those guys run local races too, but I agree with 3mar that quite a few local races are won in 1:05-1:08.

The top male in the 40-44 AG at Sprint Nationals last year was 14th overall.  1:21/100 swim, 24.8 bike, 5:30/mile run.  In 2013 he top males in that AG were 6th and 7th.....virtually identical paces.  Between 24-25 on the bike, ~1:20/100 on the swim, and 5:30/mile run.  To be fair.....a lot of really fast people run the Oly and not the sprint so that would likely put more from that AG in the top end.....but you're still flirting with that sub 1:00.00 sprint......that's pretty damn quick for a local race.

I actually don't disagree with that.  There are folks out there who don't even know they are genetically "gifted".....and for sure they could be left out of the conversation of "you can't do it if you didn't run fast early".    I was raised the same way and it was drilled into my head....."you can do anything you set your mind to".....well, ok....go run a 4 minute mile.   There is a point where that time honored lesson falls off the page when it comes to physical ability.    Still, your point is a good one for sure.

Where do you live?

Philadelphia so I race in PA, NJ mostly 

"I'm in the same area, and yes the OA winners are in these time ranges(Duffy comes to mind)

Depending on AG not quite that fast.
I  usually swim about 1:15-1:20/100 and come out of the water in the top 5% depends if I've been practicing the swim or not.
I bike a flat sprint somewhere between 23-25mph
Many times I start the run in one of the top spots for my age group, however my run is not that good. I hold about a 8-8:30/mile and cane usually watch 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in my AG go past me on the run  I've taken 4th a lot in sprints."

You and I are in the same boat, splits are close but you have me on the bike.  I feel your pain.... I now prefer races with no age on the calf.

I was going to use Duffy as an example and the fact that a few guys are close to him at the end of the day.  But I wasn't sure that would be in the spirit of a "local" race.

This is becoming a disease!

I'm only accepting the genes argument from people who have dedicated time to training and proper nutrition.  And not for six months -for years.  Until the vast majority of amateur athletes limiters are their own minds and lack of dedication.  Lack of dedication isn't a bad thing from most AG's - we've got families, jobs, friends and a social life.

I really don't know why people are so fast to talk about genes being their limiter on here - is it because it's a good excuse that's out of their hands so they don't have to face up to the fact they don't eat and train properly?

I sort of agree... YES there is some natural talent... BUT... here's my $0.02

Started training for the Army Tri Team. To be considered, I need a 2:35 Oly. 

I trained HARD, and in a year, my sprint tri paces became my Olympic tri paces. I went a 2:33. Good enough for consideration, but not good enough to make the team.

The Army's #1 female triathlete and I had a conversation. She told me that she was about my speed three years ago. She now knocks out sub-2:15s on a regular basis, and I think her PR is a 2:08.

You know what she did? Focus, hard work, dedication for 3 years.

Her times, to me, seem nearly impossible NOW, but what's stopping me from getting there? It sure isn't genetics.

Work hard, and reframe what is possible.

Like I said, your point is valid as far as reaching potential.  Let me ask you, do you think you can train yourself to a 4:15 mile?  A 15:00 5K?  A 32 minute 10K?  Do you think anyone can? 

I agree that it isn't just the act of "running" that develops some kids......in most it's the simple act of playing.  Still, when you line the kids up and say, "run"....it's not hard to pick out the "runners". 

I trained retriever dogs for many years.  I started with what I could afford in a dog as far a pedigree, and eventually was training dogs who came from "championship" lines.  It was night and day.  It was, simply, genetics.  I had to work them to get the most out of them, but "lesser" dogs very rarely could get to the same level.  Of course it's genetics.  Only in humans do we try to deny that there are people who are genetically superior in some ways (sorry, we aren't all the same, or equal).....and that just doesn't make any sense from a biological standpoint.....we are made up of DNA that allows us to do some things really well, and some things not so well.

You can't take any human at a young age and make them a 4 minute miler.....it's actually genetically impossible.....most people just can't do it. 

I think it's common for us to deny quite a bit of the genetic idea because we aren't raised that way (at least most of us with loving, caring parents).  We are taught that we can do anything we set our minds to. Actually, no we can't when it comes to physical tasks.

That being said, I agree that few of us reach our absolute potential in anything.