General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Faster with a pull buoy? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2015-03-31 7:01 AM

User image

Bronze member
Subject: Faster with a pull buoy?

I have a friend that I swim with. She picked up swimming in the Fall of 2013 but her main focus is competitive marathon running. She thought about attempting triathlon which is why she started to swim but she is not the type that can let go of all the running to make time for the bike. She has come a long way with her swimming over these couple of years from being afraid to put her head in the water to yesterday - a 1:33/100 BUT she can only hit those times with the pull buoy. If she drops the buoy her time is drastically slower. For now she doesn't care, doesn't want to try to fix it because she is saving her legs for running anyway, she just swims because she likes it and she feels it has helped build her cardio even more for her marathons.

I am not faster by any means with the pull buoy so I find this pretty amazing. 1. that she can run a million miles in the early morning then meet me to swim and 2. that she can do practically the whole swim with a buoy! My arms would be fried! And I've been swimming for exercise for 13 years.

So it got me wondering. Maybe this is more common than I think. How many people are faster with the buoy? And if I am slower with the buoy does that mean my pull sucks?



2015-03-31 7:09 AM
in reply to: trigal38

User image

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: Faster with a pull buoy?

I'm faster with a pull buoy over longer distances - I don't know exactly where it switches over, maybe 300-400?  Top end speed for a 50/100 I definitely need to kick.

2015-03-31 7:28 AM
in reply to: trigal38

User image

Master
8247
50002000100010010025
Eugene, Oregon
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Faster with a pull buoy?
If she is drastically slower without the buoy, it almost certainly means that she has poor body position when swimming and can only swim efficiently with the extra buoyancy which corrects for that. Very typical of runners with limited swim experience plus little natural buoyancy. Her times with the buoy sound quite fast, so she might be a solid swimmer if she could fix her body position--her stroke might be otherwise quite efficient, but she's not getting full benefit of it due to poor position in the water.

As for swimming after running a million miles, it is pretty much different muscles. Because of time and pool availability, I usually do both my longest run (sometimes 2+ hours and including speed work) and my longest swim day (up to 3800m) AM and PM of the same day, and I've had plenty of good swims doing that. As long as one refuels and hydrates adequately, the hardest part in my experience is just psyching up to do another long workout! I know some people feel they're more likely to cramp if swimming after a long/hard run, but I haven't had that issue. It does feel good sometimes to do a pull set if my legs are very tired, but I'm bit slower with the buoy, an average of about 3-5 seconds/100m. Pulling with paddles cuts that to maybe 1-2 seconds/100m, but it's more tiring. For sprinting, definitely slower as the kick plays a bigger role.

2015-03-31 8:47 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

User image


489
100100100100252525
Subject: RE: Faster with a pull buoy?

Broadly speaking - people who swam when they were younger and have the correct body position will be slower with a pull buoy and people who have come late to swimming will be quicker with it.

 

2015-03-31 8:53 AM
in reply to: Dan-L

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Faster with a pull buoy?

Originally posted by Dan-L

Broadly speaking - people who swam when they were younger and have the correct body position will be slower with a pull buoy and people who have come late to swimming will be quicker with it.

 

That's me.......much faster with the buoy.

2015-03-31 8:57 AM
in reply to: 0

User image

Member
325
10010010025
Groningen, Netherlands
Subject: RE: Faster with a pull buoy?
I started swimming in earnest last November and I am definitely faster without a pullbuoy. I don't kick overly much either. Only possible explanation is that perhaps the pullbuoy is too small. But I don't really use the buoy that much in training anyway.

Edited by Snaaijer 2015-03-31 9:01 AM


2015-03-31 9:46 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

User image

Master
2406
2000100100100100
Bellevue, WA
Subject: RE: Faster with a pull buoy?

Originally posted by Hot Runner If she is drastically slower without the buoy, it almost certainly means that she has poor body position when swimming and can only swim efficiently with the extra buoyancy which corrects for that. Very typical of runners with limited swim experience plus little natural buoyancy. Her times with the buoy sound quite fast, so she might be a solid swimmer if she could fix her body position--her stroke might be otherwise quite efficient, but she's not getting full benefit of it due to poor position in the water.

This. And the pull buoy is aquatic crack. Easy to get hooked on them rather than fix the body position issues.

2015-03-31 10:42 AM
in reply to: brucemorgan


1660
10005001002525
Subject: RE: Faster with a pull buoy?

Quite a lot of folks are faster with  a buoy, and significantly so. 

And a good segment (like me) are actually around 5-7 sec/100 slower with one. 

A lot of the faster with the buoy crowd have body position (leg drag) issues, but some of them actually have excellent body position, and just kick too hard without the buoy, and thus expend more energy (kicking has more cardio cost than pulling for speed gained); once they remove the kick component, they have more power/cardio available for pulling. 

I barely kick so I get no gains from the buoy, and suspect the added drag actually offsets any energy savings for my minimal kick. 

In my masters group, most people are faster with the buoy , but I'm so much slower than there is a 2-lane differential of me+buoy vs me without. (With buoy, I should move 1 lane slower, whereas without buoy, I'm one, if not two lanes faster).

2015-03-31 12:01 PM
in reply to: trigal38


1055
10002525
Subject: RE: Faster with a pull buoy?
I'm slower with the buoy, by a noticeable amount.

2015-03-31 12:10 PM
in reply to: ziggie204

User image

Champion
10018
50005000
, Minnesota
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Faster with a pull buoy?

I am an untalented adult onset swimmer.  When I started triathlon, I went from zero in the pool to learning how to swim freestyle. I did that, for the whole first year, using a pull buoy.  Well, I actually started with a water aerobics dumbbell between my legs...    My wetsuit did the job on race day.

For years I could whip through pull sets happily and struggle without the buoy.   Now I have gotten to the point where it's all about the same.  My arms (or lats) don't get tired at all, either - maybe another problem?

She could probably manage a tri or two, assuming she has a wet suit, with just training how she has been.  But she will be very, very, very sorry to do a race without a wet suit.

2015-03-31 1:17 PM
in reply to: trigal38

User image

Veteran
495
100100100100252525
Calgary
Subject: RE: Faster with a pull buoy?
Originally posted by trigal38

I have a friend that I swim with. She picked up swimming in the Fall of 2013 but her mainĀ focus is competitive marathon running. She thought about attempting triathlon which is why she started to swim but she is not the type that can let go of all the running to make time for the bike. She has come a long way with her swimming over these couple of years from being afraid to put her head in the water to yesterday - a 1:33/100 BUT she can only hit those times with the pull buoy. If she drops the buoy her time is drastically slower. For now she doesn't care, doesn't want to try to fix it because she is saving her legs for running anyway, she just swims because she likes it and she feels it has helped build her cardio even more for her marathons.

I am not faster by any means with the pull buoy so I find this pretty amazing. 1. that she can run a million miles in the early morning then meet me to swim and 2. that she can do practically the whole swim with a buoy! My arms would be fried! And I've been swimming for exercise for 13 years.

So it got me wondering. Maybe this is more common than I think. How many people are faster with the buoy? And if I am slower with the buoy does that mean my pull sucks?



I'm faster with a pull buoy and swimming feels much easier / more relaxed when I use one. I like the pull buoy for drills because being more relaxed helps me stay focused, and fatigue is less distracting. For example - keeping one goggle lens in the water when I breath; faster arm turnover; quiet head position. Then I get rid of the pull buoy and try to translate the same movement and sensation to swimming without it.

I'm surprised by the concern about your arms being fried - my experience is the opposite, for the same turnover my arms feel fresher when I use the pull buoy.

I figure that I like the pull buoy too much which means that I should generally try to avoid it.

Maybe the fact that you don't like the pull buoy means that you should use it more.
Don


2015-03-31 1:40 PM
in reply to: donw

User image

Bronze member
Subject: RE: Faster with a pull buoy?

Interesting. I don't hate the buoy. I can take it or leave it. Makes me no difference. I don't feel more comfortable or swim faster with the buoy. Like someone else stated, I think it creates drag for me and I am slower with the buoy but I am also never trying to do speed intervals with the buoy. I'm usually using it when I am working on something specific in my stroke or just warming up.

And yes, we know that there is something off in her kick for sure. Like I said, she does not really care to try to figure it out. I'm just thinking in the back of my mind that if she ever got her legs to work with her arms she might be pretty fast!

 

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Faster with a pull buoy? Rss Feed  
RELATED POSTS

Faster with a pull buoy Pages: 1 2

Started by sandall81
Views: 3669 Posts: 37

2012-03-15 4:00 PM katieh816

Doing pull sets without a pull buoy

Started by suzielea
Views: 4276 Posts: 19

2011-06-16 1:05 PM em73

Faster with a pull buoy?

Started by Rattlesnake
Views: 1882 Posts: 22

2010-05-06 8:00 AM nerak11

Simming and pull buoys

Started by sranney
Views: 1222 Posts: 12

2006-03-10 8:26 PM sranney

Pull Buoys-useful or not?

Started by keepitup
Views: 1217 Posts: 9

2004-05-05 8:51 PM keepitup
RELATED ARTICLES
date : November 4, 2010
author : Sara McLarty
comments : 0
This installment of the BT Swim Series will focus on swimming tools and how best to use them. Includes pull buoys, kickboards, fins, paddles and snorkels.
 
date : April 23, 2009
author : Team BT
comments : 0
Not really a swim drill, but more of a focus on proper catch and pull technique to engage the lats and not the shoulders.
date : April 23, 2009
author : Team BT
comments : 0
Use this tutorial anytime you see a 'pull' workout indicating paddles. Use a pull buoy too.
 
date : March 4, 2009
author : Tri Swim Coach
comments : 0
Discussions on pull buoys and paddles, the backstroke, speedwork and drills to avoid the windmill arms.
date : December 24, 2008
author : Tri Swim Coach
comments : 0
Discussions on further swim improvements, spicing up endurance swims, kicking for triathlon, pull buoy usage, not moving while kicking and rest intervals for fast/short sets.
 
date : May 19, 2008
author : EnduRight
comments : 1
Next time you reach for your pull buoy, think again. By creating dependency on a buoy, the athlete never learns how to correctly create a more efficient freestyle stroke through better body position.
date : June 27, 2007
author : Tri Swim Coach
comments : 0
Questions and answers on swim drills and improvement, kicking in a wetsuit, swimming backwards and ankle flexibility, hand entry, the pull, hip rotation and using paddles and pull buoys.
 
date : June 18, 2006
author : Team BT
comments : 0
The lateral pulldown strength exercise instruction with picture and video