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2015-03-31 9:18 AM

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DC
Subject: Fasted Runs
Been looking through the forum histories & haven't found any on-point on the pros/cons of long runs (cardio sessions) on empty stomachs. Seems like the "research" has changed since I last looked into the matter several years ago. Wondering what the BT'ers think about running on empty.

Form an article (http://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/marathon-long-runs-on-an-empty-stomach-or-fully-fueled/):

You should run your early training segment long runs in a glycogen depleted state:
This will teach your body to boost glycogen stores and increase fat as a fuel source early in the training cycle. However, because the long runs won’t be too long, you don’t run a high risk of bonking and sacrificing a critical 20 or 22 mile long run.

Run your last 3 quality long runs in a glycogen loaded state:
In doing so, you will increase the overall quality of these important long runs, enabling you to finish faster, and recover more quickly. Likewise, you can practice your marathon nutrition strategy to acclimatize your stomach to processing simple sugars and fluids efficiently.
By implementing both glycogen depleted and glycogen loaded long runs, you can improve the critical fuel efficiency element of the marathon while maintaining consistency in your training. Do you have questions about how to incorporate these types of long runs in your training? Just ask one of our coaches and we would be glad to help.


2015-03-31 10:36 AM
in reply to: Porfirio

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Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Fasted Runs
I do a lot of training in the EARLY morning hours. The only thing I have prior is a big glass of water and a coffee. If the workout is an hour or less I don't eat anything until after. If it's going to be over an hour I'll pop a gel at 45 minutes and then every 30 minutes thereafter if it's a long one. You still get the majority of the benefits of the fasted workout this way without catabolism of too much muscle. That's what I read anyway.
2015-03-31 11:41 AM
in reply to: Jet Black

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Subject: RE: Fasted Runs

this is the kind of stuff that distracts people from properly executing their training programs. Unless you're on the very pointy end and looking for an edge (although I'd argue this is stupid anyway), it is a bad idea to do your long runs in a depleted state.  

If you only have enough glycogen for 2 hours of running, and you start the run fasted, aka glycogen stores not full, you're going to end your run smashed.

Fuel the body, take care of your recovery, and run well.

2015-03-31 11:50 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Fasted Runs

Originally posted by dmiller5

this is the kind of stuff that distracts people from properly executing their training programs. Unless you're on the very pointy end and looking for an edge (although I'd argue this is stupid anyway), it is a bad idea to do your long runs in a depleted state.  

If you only have enough glycogen for 2 hours of running, and you start the run fasted, aka glycogen stores not full, you're going to end your run smashed.

Fuel the body, take care of your recovery, and run well.

 

Agreed. I've tried this on long runs and I don't feel like I really got anything out of it other than feeling miserable

2015-03-31 11:50 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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538
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Brooklyn, New York
Subject: RE: Fasted Runs
Only morning fasted cardio I ever did was in the bodybuilding days as pre contest fat burning. They were effective at utilizing stores of fat and water as energy in the absence of glycogen stores; however, they were done at a low level intensity and just long enough. If they were taken too hard or too long, muscle stores, amino acid breakdown of existing muscle would be risky...the dreaded catabolic state!

I don't compete in b.b. anymore, but into 2nd year of training for du's and tri's, I could never imagine bothering to train for physical performance development in a depleted state. For what benefit? burn off more fat and water (and possible more) to serious depleted point that it'd affect my recovery and successive training sessions? Count me out
2015-03-31 11:56 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Fasted Runs
Originally posted by Porfirio



In doing so, you will increase the overall quality of these important long runs, enabling you to finish faster, and recover more quickly. Likewise, you can practice your marathon nutrition strategy to acclimatize your stomach to processing simple sugars and fluids efficiently.
By implementing both glycogen depleted and glycogen loaded long runs, you can improve the critical fuel efficiency element ...


This implies that by training fasted, one can train the body to better utilize simple sugars and fluids. I have had great success by doing so with ultra sound, consistent diet and prep. Is there some scientific research that supports this? I do agree in the benefit of fat and water utilization during fasted aerobic activity; but even that has been contended over time, but, as I mentioned, it did work for me at the time

Edited by TJHammer 2015-03-31 12:00 PM


2015-03-31 12:25 PM
in reply to: Porfirio

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DC
Subject: RE: Fasted Runs
What about the idea that you burn more fat on empty?

Also, the fact that I can run 2 hours on empty... does that suggest that I should continue doing so? Of course, I fuel immediately thereafter.
2015-03-31 1:05 PM
in reply to: Porfirio

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Subject: RE: Fasted Runs

Originally posted by Porfirio What about the idea that you burn more fat on empty? Also, the fact that I can run 2 hours on empty... does that suggest that I should continue doing so? Of course, I fuel immediately thereafter.

Is there proof you burn more fat on empty?  Pretty sure you burn the same calories whether you ate earlier or not.  

2015-03-31 1:11 PM
in reply to: Porfirio

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Subject: RE: Fasted Runs
Originally posted by Porfirio

What about the idea that you burn more fat on empty?

Also, the fact that I can run 2 hours on empty... does that suggest that I should continue doing so? Of course, I fuel immediately thereafter.


You can absolutely train your body to use more fat than glycogen.
This becomes more important the longer the event and if you are trying to do fast & long events. Pointy end IMers and ultra marathoners, people with GI issues should take a look at this
What you eat is the biggest element here. The "what" is more important than the "when". Low carb high fat is the way to become a fat burner.
There are consequences, or better said considerations in going low carb/high fat.
Never let a lack of fueling compromise a workout.



2015-03-31 2:26 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Fasted Runs
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Porfirio What about the idea that you burn more fat on empty? Also, the fact that I can run 2 hours on empty... does that suggest that I should continue doing so? Of course, I fuel immediately thereafter.

Is there proof you burn more fat on empty?  Pretty sure you burn the same calories whether you ate earlier or not.  




Yes. Ketosis.
2015-03-31 2:31 PM
in reply to: Jet Black

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Subject: RE: Fasted Runs

Originally posted by Jet Black
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Porfirio What about the idea that you burn more fat on empty? Also, the fact that I can run 2 hours on empty... does that suggest that I should continue doing so? Of course, I fuel immediately thereafter.

Is there proof you burn more fat on empty?  Pretty sure you burn the same calories whether you ate earlier or not.  

Yes. Ketosis.

Fasting for ~12 hours does not put you in Ketosis.



2015-03-31 2:59 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Fasted Runs
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by Jet Black
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Porfirio What about the idea that you burn more fat on empty? Also, the fact that I can run 2 hours on empty... does that suggest that I should continue doing so? Of course, I fuel immediately thereafter.

Is there proof you burn more fat on empty?  Pretty sure you burn the same calories whether you ate earlier or not.  

Yes. Ketosis.

Fasting for ~12 hours does not put you in Ketosis.




Right. You have to be there already, then during a fasted workout you burn more stored fat by being on empty.
2015-03-31 3:41 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Fasted Runs
Originally posted by marcag

You can absolutely train your body to use more fat than glycogen.
This becomes more important the longer the event and if you are trying to do fast & long events. Pointy end IMers and ultra marathoners, people with GI issues should take a look at this
What you eat is the biggest element here. The "what" is more important than the "when". Low carb high fat is the way to become a fat burner.
There are consequences, or better said considerations in going low carb/high fat.
Never let a lack of fueling compromise a workout.


There's lots of good stuff here and I've bolded the two points that I think are key when considering fasted training.

There is some much misinformation and pseudoscience out there surrounding the idea of fasted training that it is hard to figure out fact from fiction.

Shane
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