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2015-03-31 11:17 AM


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Subject: Flip turn mechanical question
Not starting any debate on this, I'm just looking for some technical guidance to see if I can learn how to do this.

On the flip, I find myself rather low in the pool. In a 3' foot pool, I'm often darn near scraping bottom with my backside. Is this likely because I'm sinking a fair bit because I'm not going into the wall fast enough? It seems that way. When I have a little more guts and swim in a little harder it doesn't seem 'as bad'.

The other thing that seems to happen when I feel I get the flip a little bit better, is that when I push off (working on this in two parts: flip then worry about the twist/turn later....now I'm just trying to push off and more or less stay facing up for now). It seems that I push off and just sort of 'sink' towards my backside or more or less come to a dead stop just under the surface. I feel like I should be 'coming' up a little more. I know I'm not as fat as I used to be, but I feel like I should be a bit more buoyant. That make sense? If I start incorporating the twist part, would that naturally help?

Also, what should I be doing with my hands after I make the flip? Should both be reaching out/up at all? or should I be looking to restart the stroke cycle with one arm/hand?

I've watched tons of videos, but I'm having trouble finding really solid technique ones. It seems like it's one of those things that people do naturally, but have a hard time breaking down a bit more mechanically.

Edited by jhaack39 2015-03-31 11:18 AM


2015-03-31 11:30 AM
in reply to: #5105007

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Subject: RE: Flip turn mechanical question
As you are on final approach leave your hands by your sides. As you tuck up pull them to your face and then shove them up outstretched but one on top of the other in as good of a streamline as you can.

In kid speak, soldier, ball, swordfish. If that makes sense.
2015-03-31 11:31 AM
in reply to: #5105012

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Subject: RE: Flip turn mechanical question
Oh, if you're coming off deep stay in ball a little longer to rotate up a little more before you push off.
2015-03-31 11:57 AM
in reply to: jhaack39


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Subject: RE: Flip turn mechanical question
Yeah, when I first started doing them, I would come off really deep too and even scrap the bottom of the pool. Rather annoying. It just takes practice and determination to stick with it. Already a good comment on what to do with your hands. And speed does matter for me, the faster I'm going, the quicker and tighter the flip becomes. If I'm just loafing around, the flip is ugly. A couple of things that helped me. . . keeping my feet together and tucking my head in/down to start the flip (with my arms already at my sides).

2015-03-31 12:51 PM
in reply to: 0


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Subject: RE: Flip turn mechanical question
This is all a huge help.
I hadn't even thought about what to do with my hands/arms "before/during".
In fact, thinking about it right now is a bit like thinking about how you eat pudding. Do you 'chew' it or just sort of suck it down?
I can't really recall what I was doing. Which means I wasn't thinking about it. If I had to guess, they were sort of up near my head and I'm using them a bit like in a dive...kinda like a puppy dog beg that I then throw down towards almost my mid section, not side...in an effort to help flip. I can see that where my hands are my head might be going, which means my body is going to follow....down, not pivoting at the hips.

Back to the pool on Thursday for more!

Also, it fees like my swim cap is about to flutter off.

On a positive note, I didn't consume half the pool up my nose this morning.



edit:
Ahh..... keeping the feet together. I'll have to look into that. I'm definitely cowboying my knees. My feet are pretty wide when I plant them on the wall.


Edited by jhaack39 2015-03-31 12:52 PM
2015-03-31 4:18 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: Flip turn mechanical question

Exhale through your nose while you flip and you won't ingest nearly as much water.  

Which is also true while just "swimming" too.  When I taught swim lessons, I'd tell the kids to hum.  



2015-03-31 5:30 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Flip turn mechanical question
Originally posted by jhaack39

Not starting any debate on this, I'm just looking for some technical guidance to see if I can learn how to do this.

Spending some time at the end of a workout just working on turns is helpful. Then once you get better at it you can start incorporating it in to your actual workout. It will take time getting used to swimming a set with a flip turn so I would suggest incorporating 1 turn per 100 and work from there.

On the flip, I find myself rather low in the pool. In a 3' foot pool, I'm often darn near scraping bottom with my backside. Is this likely because I'm sinking a fair bit because I'm not going into the wall fast enough? It seems that way. When I have a little more guts and swim in a little harder it doesn't seem 'as bad'.

Speed is definitely a factor. I flip turn 100% of the time but if go in to the wall too slow it is sloppy. Use the T on the bottom and the X on the wall as visual cues on when to flip. (everyone flips at a different starting point. I'm taller than my training partner and I end up starting to flip earlier than she does)

The other thing that seems to happen when I feel I get the flip a little bit better, is that when I push off (working on this in two parts: flip then worry about the twist/turn later....now I'm just trying to push off and more or less stay facing up for now). It seems that I push off and just sort of 'sink' towards my backside or more or less come to a dead stop just under the surface. I feel like I should be 'coming' up a little more. I know I'm not as fat as I used to be, but I feel like I should be a bit more buoyant. That make sense? If I start incorporating the twist part, would that naturally help?

Flip straight, don't worry about twisting at first. When you flip and come off the wall stay in a hyper-streamline (arms tight on the head, gut sucked in, bum tight) and get a feel for how to feels off the wall on your back. Once you get that down then you can add the twist to get back on you belly.

Also, what should I be doing with my hands after I make the flip? Should both be reaching out/up at all? or should I be looking to restart the stroke cycle with one arm/hand?

Try a tighter tuck with hands at your side, initiate the flip with your head, using your core. Then once you have flipped your hands will be in position to streamline off the wall. The Race Club (Gary Hall Sr.) has alot of useful videos but they are a little more technical. There is a good USA swimming video about using your hands for a faster flip but one step at a time. :)

I've watched tons of videos, but I'm having trouble finding really solid technique ones. It seems like it's one of those things that people do naturally, but have a hard time breaking down a bit more mechanically.

Check technique videos on USA Swimming. I believe there are also flip turn articles and videos on the US Master's website.

Good luck!

Edited by autigers_1998 2015-03-31 5:32 PM
2015-03-31 5:58 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: Flip turn mechanical question
First of all in a 3' pool I'd probably be on the bottom too. So, I think that's normal.

Let me tell you how I do it as a new flipper who learned in masters swim.

I'm swimming to the wall. I know that I'm 3 strokes from the T to the flip. (without fins)

So ... stroke, stroke (leave that hand by my hip), stroke (follow that hand down), tuck the chin and do a little flip kick with my feet to propel my feet over. Bring my knees to my chest ... really tight. Thinking chin down knees in tight. Push my feet against the wall and put my arms out in a tight stream line (this part I'm not good at) Chin still tucked hands out in front elbows near my ears and push hard on the wall.

a few things that helped me a lot. My masters teacher made me do several laps where every few strokes I would flip and keep swimming. Makes you want to barf but you get the feeling down of flipping after a stroke.

You can flip super close to the wall if you bring your knees in tight. Flipping too far away (and I was much farther than I needed to be even when I thought I was right) removes most of the power from your flip. You turn almost where your fingers would touch the wall.

Keep practicing.

Amy
2015-04-01 9:25 AM
in reply to: miamiamy

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Subject: RE: Flip turn mechanical question
Originally posted by miamiamy

leave that hand by my hip.... You turn almost where your fingers would touch the wall.



If you leave yours hands on your hip I hope you turn before your fingers touch the wall! :D :D :D

Thx for the tips!
2015-04-04 8:59 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: Flip turn mechanical question
2015-04-04 10:42 PM
in reply to: Moonrocket

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Subject: RE: Flip turn mechanical question
Originally posted by Moonrocket

Oh, if you're coming off deep stay in ball a little longer to rotate up a little more before you push off.


Tuck tighter as well. 3' is plenty, I can flip in 2' and I'm 6' tall.


2015-04-05 9:52 AM
in reply to: #5105007

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Subject: RE: Flip turn mechanical question
A tighter , faster flip will help, and when you are used to it and aware of your body position you can use your push off from the wall to influence your depth.
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