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2015-04-01 11:36 AM

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Subject: Car Talk

I drive a 2007 Mazda 3. 129,000 miles. 

The A/C system just went out. The compressor seized. Replacing the entire A/C system was quoted at $2200. The car is worth MAYBE $4000. Mechanically, the rest of the car runs just fine. I did spend a few hundred bucks on brakes, transmission flush, and other basic things back in February. I do live in Tucson, so the A/C is nice to have Car has been paid off for years. And $2200 is like 6+ months of car payments...

WWCOJ do?

 



2015-04-01 12:17 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk
How often does it rain? I'm thinking you could get someone to chop the top off for $100.

I'm not very familiar with Mazda's, but most recently made cars I have experience with can make it to 200k miles if properly cared for. I'd think you'd want to see how long it will take you to get those 70k miles in and then make a decision. With 0 knowledge of you car, I would think you could get it fixed and be good for a few years of payment free driving. But it all depends on your experience with the car and identifying the likely number of miles one can expect to get out of Mazda 3.
2015-04-01 12:28 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk
Get several quotes and don't get it done at the dealership! Sounds like they are replacing all the major components for that price, as they should with a seized compressor. The evaporator is probably a lot of the cost because of labor usually involved. Most cars it is behind the glove box under the dash! Have somebody double check and make sure the compressor actually failed and it is not just the clutch. If it is just the clutch, the cost should be well under 500 bucks. Could you tell me what your A/C system is doing when you turn it on?
2015-04-01 12:32 PM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

When I hit the A/C Button, my RPMs jump up, and the level back down. It blows air, just not cooled air. I did suspect/hope it was just the clutch, but I could be wrong.

I'm taking it somewhere else for another quote/opinion.

2015-04-01 12:34 PM
in reply to: jmcconne

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

Originally posted by jmcconne How often does it rain? I'm thinking you could get someone to chop the top off for $100. I'm not very familiar with Mazda's, but most recently made cars I have experience with can make it to 200k miles if properly cared for. I'd think you'd want to see how long it will take you to get those 70k miles in and then make a decision. With 0 knowledge of you car, I would think you could get it fixed and be good for a few years of payment free driving. But it all depends on your experience with the car and identifying the likely number of miles one can expect to get out of Mazda 3.

That's the trick, isn't it?

I will say that I bought it brand new, and every single one of those miles was mine! It's been across the country a few times, and I'm thinking that if it is really a $2k+ job, it might be worth it for me and my peace of mind - to just purchase a new or <40,000 mile used car. 

I can certainly afford car payments if I need to. I'm just worried that this is the tipping point of my current car becoming a money pit.

2015-04-01 12:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Car Talk
That does sound like the compressor. Have someone look at the clutch while you turn on A/C. It should make an audible click and then the end of it should turn and continue to turn. Because of the rpm rise and subsequent drop, it sounds like it is engaging and then disengaging because it is seized up. Most likely you would see the whole thing engage with a louder than normal click, "shudder a bit" then stop turning. Does that make sense?

Edited by mdg2003 2015-04-01 12:47 PM


2015-04-01 1:06 PM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

Originally posted by mdg2003 That does sound like the compressor. Have someone look at the clutch while you turn on A/C. It should make an audible click and then the end of it should turn and continue to turn. Because of the rpm rise and subsequent drop, it sounds like it is engaging and then disengaging because it is seized up. Most likely you would see the whole thing engage with a louder than normal click, "shudder a bit" then stop turning. Does that make sense?

It does.

I actually work at a refrigeration company, so we've been talking about it.

If the compressor is seized, it's sort of a gamble to just replace that... smart thing would be to replace the whole system.

2015-04-01 4:19 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk
Where do you live? And do you really need A/C? That'd be my first question.

Since I live in south texas, the answer is a resounding YES.

But if I lived back in Meechigan I might get away with no A/C until I buy a new car.
2015-04-01 8:03 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

Dearest Elaine,

I am the guy who has been putting a new compressor into a Mini Cooper every two years for the last 10 years, so I have absolutely no basis on which to express an opinion. Nevertheless, since this is an internet forum here is my advice:

Aa an engineer, you should probably know  that the objective of any car's longevity is to make it to 238,900 miles which is the distance to the moon.  If you make it that far, then obviously you have to make it back so you should try to make this car last for 477,800 miles. This is contingent on knowing every component and replacing that component at its life expectancy less 30 minutes and then polishing that component posting pictures on Facebook of its impending failure.  When you have  replaced every single component on the car, you should declare it a new car and give it a new name and its own Facebook page.  Google earth should place a permanent circle spike on your address to notify the world that you have designed and implemented the perpetual car. You should have a kickstarter fundraiser to see how many complete changeovers can be accomplished in a millennium.  You should have a path of succession established for at least 10,000 years.  This is the car that will live forever.

Or meh, youjcould just buy a new one.  New cars smell nice.

TW

 

2015-04-01 9:07 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk
I have a Jeep with 1000 fewer miles than your Mazda. As I've had no issues with it at all & I like the car, I would get mine repaired & ride it out for a few more years. While a seized compressor is costly & a PIA, it's not an indication of any other issues outside the AC system. Of course, with 129k miles, it's a somewhat emotional decision...if you want a new car & you can afford it, go for it!

As for the actual problem, it sounds like you & mdg know what you're doing. I'll add my 2 cents based on what I would do/want fixed ...

With a seized compressor, you're stuck with a labor intensive, costly repair...every AC joint will need to be opened up to properly flush each component you are not replacing. That leads me to wonder what the quote you received covers. I would think the AC lines & evap core (HVAC case) could be flushed & kept...unless one of them is the source of a leak that starved the compressor & caused it to seize up.

You're right to worry about the debris associated with a seized compressor. The compressor & condenser definitely should be replaced. The accumulator or receiver/dryer (you'll have one or the other depending on the system design) and the orifice tube or TXV (another design either/or) are also potential debris traps. Since the system is open & those parts will not cost much vs the rest of the repair, I would replace both to be safe & ensure there are no clogs. After 7-8 years of use, I would also make sure they replace all the old o-rings with new, lubed o-rings since all the joints will be open anyway (those seals cost pennies & you'll already be paying the labor for the mechanic to get to them).

It's a few months too late for you, but periodically running the AC in the winter circulates the oil through the system & keeps everything lubed up (helps prevent leaks that can cause compressor seizing).



2015-04-02 8:45 AM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk
FWIW, at 120k I had the compressor go out in my truck. As the cheapo I am, I replaced only the compressor. The truck now has 310k and the a/c still blows snow.


2015-04-02 9:17 AM
in reply to: djastroman

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

Originally posted by djastroman Where do you live? And do you really need A/C? That'd be my first question. Since I live in south texas, the answer is a resounding YES. But if I lived back in Meechigan I might get away with no A/C until I buy a new car.

Tucson, Arizona

2015-04-02 9:18 AM
in reply to: NXS

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

My wife's first brand new car was a Mazda Protege (which I believe is the predecessor to the Mazda 3).  She put a couple hundred thousand miles on it with no major repairs.  When the AC finally broke, she was itching for a newer and different type of vehicle, so we traded it in on a Chevy Tahoe (which she and I drove until it had almost 200k). 

If you like your car, there is no reason not to fix the AC and keep on driving it. 

2015-04-02 9:18 AM
in reply to: Boilermaker

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

Originally posted by Boilermaker I have a Jeep with 1000 fewer miles than your Mazda. As I've had no issues with it at all & I like the car, I would get mine repaired & ride it out for a few more years. While a seized compressor is costly & a PIA, it's not an indication of any other issues outside the AC system. Of course, with 129k miles, it's a somewhat emotional decision...if you want a new car & you can afford it, go for it! As for the actual problem, it sounds like you & mdg know what you're doing. I'll add my 2 cents based on what I would do/want fixed ... With a seized compressor, you're stuck with a labor intensive, costly repair...every AC joint will need to be opened up to properly flush each component you are not replacing. That leads me to wonder what the quote you received covers. I would think the AC lines & evap core (HVAC case) could be flushed & kept...unless one of them is the source of a leak that starved the compressor & caused it to seize up. You're right to worry about the debris associated with a seized compressor. The compressor & condenser definitely should be replaced. The accumulator or receiver/dryer (you'll have one or the other depending on the system design) and the orifice tube or TXV (another design either/or) are also potential debris traps. Since the system is open & those parts will not cost much vs the rest of the repair, I would replace both to be safe & ensure there are no clogs. After 7-8 years of use, I would also make sure they replace all the old o-rings with new, lubed o-rings since all the joints will be open anyway (those seals cost pennies & you'll already be paying the labor for the mechanic to get to them). It's a few months too late for you, but periodically running the AC in the winter circulates the oil through the system & keeps everything lubed up (helps prevent leaks that can cause compressor seizing).

Ohhh.. hadn't thought of that. Thanks!!

Also, accessing the expansion valve involves removing my dashboard :/

2015-04-02 9:25 AM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

Update!

Quote from another place was $1400. Still pricey, because it's really labor-intensive.

The vast majority of the "keep it" crowd seems to be people with access to more than one vehicle (they own two, they have a spouse with one...). I'd love to keep it, but repairs become a huge PITA when it has to go to the shop. 

I'm leaning towards spending some time sweating my butt off (actually it only hits 90 in the 10 day forecast once!) and shopping around for cars. I was looking at the list of common wear and tear items that are still working in my car, and I'm worried I'm at the mileage that it starts becoming one right after the other.

I got a dealership to offer me $5000 for a trade-in, which isn't bad at all. 

I'm headed out of town for 2 weeks, so I'll have time to think it over before I make the fix it or sell it decision.

2015-04-02 9:29 AM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by djastroman Where do you live? And do you really need A/C? That'd be my first question. Since I live in south texas, the answer is a resounding YES. But if I lived back in Meechigan I might get away with no A/C until I buy a new car.

Tucson, Arizona




OK you might need A/C then


2015-04-02 9:32 AM
in reply to: djastroman

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

Originally posted by djastroman
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by djastroman Where do you live? And do you really need A/C? That'd be my first question. Since I live in south texas, the answer is a resounding YES. But if I lived back in Meechigan I might get away with no A/C until I buy a new car.

Tucson, Arizona

OK you might need A/C then

I've been half-jokingly saying that I'll drive it up to Alaska and sell it... then I'll get to visit Alaska, too!

2015-04-02 10:11 AM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

The vast majority of the "keep it" crowd seems to be people with access to more than one vehicle (they own two, they have a spouse with one...). I'd love to keep it, but repairs become a huge PITA when it has to go to the shop. 

As someone in a similar situation, this really resonates with me. I've had my car in the shop a few times in the last few months and not having a 2nd car in the house, or a spouse or child to help out makes things really hard - and something a lot of people don't think about. Lucky for me I only live 2 miles from work, so I walked to and from a few days (and walked to the grocery store once), and had a parent help me out on the other days - but it was a huge, HUGE pain.

For me, I couldn't do 90 degrees with no A/C 

2015-04-02 11:18 AM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

So... I'm thinking...

VW Golf TDI. 

2015-04-02 11:36 AM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk
I thought that's what you would do!! Fixing and keeping it or replacing it both make sense in your situation. You're kind of in the middle where neither decision is wrong financially, IMO.

That VW TDI is a good choice if you plan to keep it for a long time. Id look at certified pre owned vehicles and also brand new ones. You should be able to find a CPO with less than 25K miles for a lot less than a brand new one. Of course since you seem to keep vehicles for the long haul, a new one makes sense too. Plus you can't beat that new car smell!!! Have fun looking.
2015-04-02 11:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Car Talk

Originally posted by mdg2003 I thought that's what you would do!! Fixing and keeping it or replacing it both make sense in your situation. You're kind of in the middle where neither decision is wrong financially, IMO. That VW TDI is a good choice if you plan to keep it for a long time. Id look at certified pre owned vehicles and also brand new ones. You should be able to find a CPO with less than 25K miles for a lot less than a brand new one. Of course since you seem to keep vehicles for the long haul, a new one makes sense too. Plus you can't beat that new car smell!!! Have fun looking.

Leaning towards new, just because the price difference between new & one with 20k miles is actually pretty low. And I'll probably buy it, drive the crap out of it for 8 years, and trade it in before it dies on me - much like I'm doing now

ETA: and the only 2 I've found within 200 miles of me already have 60k+ miles...



Edited by ratherbeswimming 2015-04-02 11:44 AM


2015-04-02 1:22 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Update!

Quote from another place was $1400. Still pricey, because it's really labor-intensive.

The vast majority of the "keep it" crowd seems to be people with access to more than one vehicle (they own two, they have a spouse with one...). I'd love to keep it, but repairs become a huge PITA when it has to go to the shop. 

I'm leaning towards spending some time sweating my butt off (actually it only hits 90 in the 10 day forecast once!) and shopping around for cars. I was looking at the list of common wear and tear items that are still working in my car, and I'm worried I'm at the mileage that it starts becoming one right after the other.

I got a dealership to offer me $5000 for a trade-in, which isn't bad at all. 

I'm headed out of town for 2 weeks, so I'll have time to think it over before I make the fix it or sell it decision.

Yeah, unfortunately, I'm one of the "keep it" crowd. We just went through this with the 150,000 mile minivan that I now drive, except it was heat, not air. But we car pool most days and it truly is a second vehicle for us. That said, I think In your case I'd go the new route. Since you rely on this as your primary transportation (and it can get HOT where you are), a newer auto sounds like a good bet.

And, from what I hear, new cars smell nice too.

2015-04-02 3:03 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

So... I'm thinking...

VW Golf TDI. 




I've heard good things about the TDI.

You'll get very good fuel economy out of it. As a bonus, the Golf is supposed to be fun to drive.

I had a high mileage work truck that was starting not cost me $1,500 every 6 months to repair. I just traded it in.

I got a new personal car after my car had 160,000 mile son it. Not having a car payment was nice while it lasted.
2015-04-03 8:15 AM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

I got a dealership to offer me $5000 for a trade-in, which isn't bad at all.


If this is one of those places that offers $5,000 for any trade, not surprisingly they are a bit shady. 2 years ago I was looking for a new car and went to one of these places based off the ad and a call to ensure the deal was legit for the car I wanted. I show up and they won't honor the deal because the model I wanted wasn't supposed to be included. The deal is also only for cars on the lot, and after looking at these all of them have "upgrades", which load on the cost. There would be a pin stripe for $500, an iPhone cable for $50, special licenses plate holder for $40, etc.

I knew the deal sounded to good to be true, but after the phone call I assumed it would be worth my effort to drive 30 minutes out there to check it out more. They ended up screwing me around for almost an hour before I could get everything out of them. Never been more pissed at a company before.
2015-04-03 6:45 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Car Talk

1.  As a fellow Tucsonan- Elaine NEEDS A/C

2.  If you still love the car, then invest in it.  It will nearly always be cheaper to fix the car you have.  But, cars have come a long way in the last 8 years.  

I'd rather $300/mo that I know about... than $300 every other month, that I don't know about.  We rely on our vehicles so much in this society.  Adds way too much stress to our lives to always be spending our time fixing them.  time for a new vehicle if you can afford it.

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