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2015-04-14 8:13 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: work-out to improve hill climbing?

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by GoFaster

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by GoFaster

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by madprops  How much pounds should I drop? I'm 6'2" and two months ago I was 197 lbs. I have dropped down to 175 lbs. I was thinking i 170 could be my race weight. Does anyone know at what point I should stop cutting weight? Like at what point will my swim suffer so much that its not worth it to get any lighter for the bike and run?

Only you know the answer to that question.  I'm just pointing out that climbing is very much just a power to weight equation.  There is no real "skill" involved in climbing with regards to triathlon.  Do the things that will help increase your power (intervals, volume, etc.), do the things that will help you get to or maintain your ideal weight...and you will climb better.

I think there is some skill when it comes to hill climbing - and hills is a subjective term based on where you live.  For me, a long steady gradient is great and I do well, but for shorter steeper hills that require a punchier effort I either get blown out near the bottom, or I blow up trying to keep up and then need to recover.  Even after 6+ years I still find myself having to manage my power up hills and then chasing to make up the time I lost. 

Which would go back to my earlier comment about proper gearing and proper pacing.  And again, this is in terms of triathlon where you are just riding your own race...not trying to keep up with a pack who may be *attacking* the hills.  Also in terms of triathlon in the sense that most courses don't include steep sections that require you to do anything different skill wise assuming you have enough gearing.

Right, "no real skill" doesn't literally mean zero, just that's it's fairly low. Also, if you goof it up it can make you pay, but that still doesn't mean it takes a lot of skill to manage. Anticipate how the upcoming terrain will affect the gear selection. 

I think we're talking different things here a little - gear selection, how to approach the hill, etc., are all things I feel I have a pretty good handle on.  W/kg (To leego's comment) are ok, but I feel one has to practice hard, short hill efforts so you get used to pushing those above threshold efforts, and then return to just below threshold in a race, rather than having to recover before you resume the effort again.  At the same time, how you approach a longer more consistent climb is again going to be different.

To Jason's comment, in a shorter race I don't feel like you're riding your own race  all the time, you're aware of those who you have passed or have passed you and you can choose to alter your effort to keep pace or let them go.  I just find that people put out a lot more effort on those shorter hills and ride off - perhaps I have fewer matches, or I just don't burn as many on the hills

Perhaps you could expand on the "hard, short" parts as what I'm reading doesn't really sound like how I've raced. Power may not stay perfectly flat, but I'm not going way past threshold either. Even with short course racing. How hard do you think these guys are going?

Pretty freekin hard.  If I'm racing Sprint/Olympic then my NP is normally in the 88-93% range and I don't get passed too often, but we reach a hill and people are going past me (and I'm fairly light to begin with) and I'm above threshold climbing.  So folks are really surging on those hills, which I'm sure hurts them, but it hurts me trying to keep my position on the hill, or make it back up again on the downhill/flat. 



2015-04-14 2:43 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: work-out to improve hill climbing?

Neil...if guys are dumping you on hills, it's likely they are just more fit on the bike or they weigh less than you.  Just because they accelerate hard on the hills while you don't, it doesn't mean it's the fastest way for them to get to T2 and you should simulate their pacing strategy.  

If you're concerned about following other's you're racing with as to "not let them go," then that really has nothing to do with skills on hill climbing but rather your overall bike fitness and ability to handle riding the edge.  These situations can also happen on the flats, out of corners, or on the downhills.  I would say the best way to acclimate yourself to that type of stress is not to climb hills but to join a hard group ride...that may or may not be riding over hills.  Or do some crazy suffefest video that simulates a group ride type effort.

 



Edited by Jason N 2015-04-14 2:44 PM
2015-04-15 11:21 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: work-out to improve hill climbing?

I've just signed on to a Carmichael Training System (CTS) session on Strava ... the 60+ Minute Climb Session.  I'm doing a baseline test today and will start the actual sessions on Monday.  There are 5 sessions per week; total time per week is between 6.5 - 7 hrs and overall runs for 4 weeks.  I've been doing the Jorge' plan and am about 2/3 of the way complete.  Jorge's has been a good plan; it's steady and consistent, but I need to prep for a tough 100m ride in May and need to up the intensity level for some serious climbs. 

One strong cycling friend has done the CTS plan and in his words ... it drives you to the 'puke' level.  If you're interested ... happy to provide some feedback. 

2015-04-15 2:45 PM
in reply to: Dorm57

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Subject: RE: work-out to improve hill climbing?

I did the 30 minute climb plan earlier in the year.  It's definitely a solid plan that mixes in good intensity and volume.  A little more focused towards pure cyclists though as it assumes you aren't doing very much other than riding.  I found that actually taking the two rest days, or riding *stupid easy* on those optional days were very important to actually keeping up with the prescribed workouts.

2015-04-15 4:26 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: work-out to improve hill climbing?

Originally posted by Jason N

I did the 30 minute climb plan earlier in the year.  It's definitely a solid plan that mixes in good intensity and volume.  A little more focused towards pure cyclists though as it assumes you aren't doing very much other than riding.  I found that actually taking the two rest days, or riding *stupid easy* on those optional days were very important to actually keeping up with the prescribed workouts.

I did the 20s plan in February, and the Descending interval set was easily the hardest workout I've done in cycling.  The 60 minute plan feels easier, but maybe that's because all the tempo workouts are closer to what I'm used to.

2015-04-15 9:59 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: work-out to improve hill climbing?
I'm a pretty slow hill climber. I think one of the problems is the way I ride. I'm totally right handed and can push a huge gear with my right leg. I excel on flat stretches. The way I get away with it is to use inertia. I can basically put a large force on the rear wheel with my right leg, relax, and then do it again. I just stare at the speed on my computer. If it says 23.4 I just push until it says 24. On hills I think this is a problem. You may be slowing down during the off part of the cycle thereby having to re-accelerate during the on. It seems to reward someone who is light, can spin, and can keep a constant force on the rear end. If you can do this you are now limited by how much 02 your muscle can process. It will take a fixed rate to raise your body up a certain distance. There is a theoretical limit to how much 02 your heart can provide your muscles. Once you hit this limit your only recourse is to make sure you're as light as possible.

By the way, I run up the 5 flights to where I work every morning. This seems to help with my hill climbing.


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