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2015-04-13 9:14 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Master
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ann arbor, michigan
Subject: RE: First Century in the Books and s$:& just got real
Originally posted by mike761

The last 2 HIM I did were in similar conditions(85-90 and Higher humidity). 2 ago I drank 3 bottles(24 oz) on the bike and was toast on the run, last one I drank 4 bottles on the bike and felt great on the run. This is why people say to work on your nutrition plan! What seems like a small difference in nutrition is what makes or breaks you on race day. nutrition is also different for everyone so no one can tell you what is going to work for you; you have to work this out during your training.

It sounds like you were light on fluids and nutrition; probably close to bonking!

Don't walk away from that ride freaking out, learn a lesson from it.


This. Among the other good advice you have gotten, I cannot overemphasize that you need a fueling strategy, ASAP. You drank two Gatorades as your fuel for a five hour ride and expected to maintain pace and then run well afterwards? Not a good plan. That is probably less than 600 calories (maybe 400?-I don't have the Gatorade label in front of me) for five hours of riding. The fact that you never peed is a good indication that you were dehydrated as well. I will usually pee at least twice, maybe more, during an IM ride. If I do that then I know that I am keeping up with my hydration needs.

How you pace and fuel on the bike is going to make or break your IM run. You have already gotten some great advice on pacing (if you haven't read the Endurance Nation "four rules of IM racing"--google it. Probably some of the best advice ever for a first time IMer). If you come off the bike nutritionally running on fumes, the run will be a long, miserable experience. 'Most' racers need to be consuming between 3 to 6 calories/kg/hour while on the bike to fuel for a race of that duration (210-420 calories per hour for a normal, 70 kg male). Start working on your nutrition now if you want to have an enjoyable (and I use that term loosely) race.


2015-04-13 9:27 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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1502
1000500
Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: First Century in the Books and s$:& just got real
Originally posted by wannabefaster

Originally posted by mike761

The last 2 HIM I did were in similar conditions(85-90 and Higher humidity). 2 ago I drank 3 bottles(24 oz) on the bike and was toast on the run, last one I drank 4 bottles on the bike and felt great on the run. This is why people say to work on your nutrition plan! What seems like a small difference in nutrition is what makes or breaks you on race day. nutrition is also different for everyone so no one can tell you what is going to work for you; you have to work this out during your training.

It sounds like you were light on fluids and nutrition; probably close to bonking!

Don't walk away from that ride freaking out, learn a lesson from it.


This. Among the other good advice you have gotten, I cannot overemphasize that you need a fueling strategy, ASAP. You drank two Gatorades as your fuel for a five hour ride and expected to maintain pace and then run well afterwards? Not a good plan. That is probably less than 600 calories (maybe 400?-I don't have the Gatorade label in front of me) for five hours of riding. The fact that you never peed is a good indication that you were dehydrated as well. I will usually pee at least twice, maybe more, during an IM ride. If I do that then I know that I am keeping up with my hydration needs.

How you pace and fuel on the bike is going to make or break your IM run. You have already gotten some great advice on pacing (if you haven't read the Endurance Nation "four rules of IM racing"--google it. Probably some of the best advice ever for a first time IMer). If you come off the bike nutritionally running on fumes, the run will be a long, miserable experience. 'Most' racers need to be consuming between 3 to 6 calories/kg/hour while on the bike to fuel for a race of that duration (210-420 calories per hour for a normal, 70 kg male). Start working on your nutrition now if you want to have an enjoyable (and I use that term loosely) race.


I will definitely check out the rules for IM racing, as I go into the final stretch.

As a clarification, I only noted the hydration side of my nutrition on the ride as I felt that was what was lacking, but I do have a pretty thorough (or at least I think) nutrition plan as I never felt like I was bonking, just dehydrated.

For this ride I did one Gu every 30 minutes throughout the ride. I start with 24 oz of water in my aero bottle, then when that is done I switch to gatorade which has matlodextrin mixed in. I have two 24 oz bottles of that for my ride and go back and forth between drinking that and water. Half way through my ride I have a solid treat (it helps me mentally) of Gu chomps.

So on my ride I consumed 10 gu gels (1,000 cal) + 48 oz Gatorade w/ 2 scoops maltodextrin (600 cal) + 1 bag gu chomps (180 cal) = 1,780 cal over 5.25 hours (including run) to equal 340 cal/hr. That seems to be a good number for me on these long rides so far, anything more and I get stomach issues. So I think I have he nutrition down, it's the pacing and hydration that were lacking, for which I've got a ton of good advice. I'm actually looking forward to this weekend's ride to try to get this in check.
2015-04-13 9:48 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: First Century in the Books and s$:& just got real
Excellent. Sounds like you are on top of the fueling then. All I saw was the two bottles of Gatorade. I probably wasn't reading closely enough.

What you took in calorie-wise is almost exactly what I will take in during an IM bike. I do like to add in some caffeine for a pick-me-up at some point in time.

I get all of my fuel via sports drink, no solids. It works for me but fueling is very individualized. Interesting to me, when I start to get hungry and think about solids while racing it almost always means I need more liquids. If I suck down half a bottle water that hungry sensation goes away. Hunger is a good barometer of hydration for me.
2015-04-13 9:59 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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1502
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Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: First Century in the Books and s$:& just got real
Originally posted by wannabefaster

Excellent. Sounds like you are on top of the fueling then. All I saw was the two bottles of Gatorade. I probably wasn't reading closely enough.

What you took in calorie-wise is almost exactly what I will take in during an IM bike. I do like to add in some caffeine for a pick-me-up at some point in time.

I get all of my fuel via sports drink, no solids. It works for me but fueling is very individualized. Interesting to me, when I start to get hungry and think about solids while racing it almost always means I need more liquids. If I suck down half a bottle water that hungry sensation goes away. Hunger is a good barometer of hydration for me.


Yep, I read a previous post of yours that was really helpful that someone had recommended a while back on fueling. I considered going liquid only, but mentally having some solid aspects really helps me. I have noticed though that drinking water makes the hunger sensation go away. I have been trying out Coke on my long runs and it seems to work really well for me as I have a really hard time taking gels when running.
2015-04-13 10:49 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: First Century in the Books and s$:& just got real
I have only taken in coke and water for my last three IM runs and for numerous HIMs and have had no issues at all. It is easily digestable and causes basically zero stomach upset. Obviously, this means that I am getting no electrolytes for the entire run but it has not caused any problems. I personally think people spend way too much time worrying about electrolytes but just because something works for me doesn't mean it will necessarily work for you.

Again, fueling is very individualized. If you find something that works, stick with it. It took awhile for me to figure out an efficient fueling plan for long-course racing. I changed the FLAVOR of my fuel last season and started to have GI issues toward the end of the run in a HIM. I went back to my old flavor and the issue went away. This is why it is so important to practice your plan in training. Little things can make a huge difference.

Edited by wannabefaster 2015-04-13 10:50 AM
2015-04-13 11:19 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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1502
1000500
Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: First Century in the Books and s$:& just got real
Originally posted by wannabefaster

I have only taken in coke and water for my last three IM runs and for numerous HIMs and have had no issues at all. It is easily digestable and causes basically zero stomach upset. Obviously, this means that I am getting no electrolytes for the entire run but it has not caused any problems. I personally think people spend way too much time worrying about electrolytes but just because something works for me doesn't mean it will necessarily work for you.

Again, fueling is very individualized. If you find something that works, stick with it. It took awhile for me to figure out an efficient fueling plan for long-course racing. I changed the FLAVOR of my fuel last season and started to have GI issues toward the end of the run in a HIM. I went back to my old flavor and the issue went away. This is why it is so important to practice your plan in training. Little things can make a huge difference.


I tried a new flavor on my HIM a couple of months ago and it was a disaster. It was way too sweet and half way through the bike I couldn't take anymore. I stopped all nutrition at that point and finished the bike and the half marathon on nothing but water. Since then I've tried a bunch of different flavors to find which ones work best and in what combination. In a HIM you can make those kind of mistakes, but I'm sure you can't in a full.


2015-04-13 1:02 PM
in reply to: g_shotts

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Subject: RE: First Century in the Books and s$:& just got real

Originally posted by g_shotts Were you tapered and rested for the ride? If not then it's a mistake to think that's how you'll feel on race day. A few weeks rest will work wonders. I'm too cheap for a power meter, so I pace IM rides on HR. I set my garmin to display time and HR, because if I display speed or pace, I end up increasing my level of effort to chase some arbitrary speed which doesn't account for heat, wind, or any of the other variables that impact bike speed. Instead, I've got a target range, and I do my best to stay within my range. It feels like a pretty easy ride for the first 4-hours, as most of my training rides are at a much higher HR. But, I usually feel pretty fresh for the last two hours on the bike. A lot of people who don't understand how to pace will pass you in the first 40-miles of the race, and you'll see them at around mile 100 just dragging, and that's before they even put on their running shoes. The most common race report you see, especially from first timers, has a few common themes. 1. They rode strong, but started to have stomach issues on the second half of the ride, which "never" happened to them in training. 2. Their stomach shut down on the run. 3.Their "run" turned into a death march....but they hung in there and finished. Post-race there's a lot of talk about how tough conditions were on the run. If you bike too hard...you're setting yourself up for an evening of misery. The big unknown is finding out what's too hard. PM or HR can help, if you're willing to trust the numbers rather than that little inner-voice telling you that it feels too easy and look at all the people passing you.

This is a good post.

2015-04-22 12:50 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: First Century in the Books and s$:& just got real
I thought I'd follow up with an update. This past weekend I had 5:30 ride scheduled. The conditions for the ride were as bad as they could be in my opinion. The wind at the beginning of the ride was 15 mph and it was 25 mph by the end....and just in case the wind would at least make it tolerable in the temp department, that was a "no" as well. The temperature at the end of my ride was 92 degrees. I think the heat index was 95, so the wind felt a lot like a hair dryer in the face. Although this sounded terrible, it was actually a perfect scenario to test my pacing and most importantly my self control. I watched my HR like a hawk and absolutely never let it go over 130 as per my goal. I finished a lot slower than the week before. It took me the full 5.5 hours to hit 100 miles instead of the sub 5 hour century the week before, however, given the conditions, I felt awesome afterward. There were times going into the headwind that I was barely going 13-14 mph, but I held back and just watched my HR. The two mile run after was hot, but I felt fine. I have a lot more confidence now going into the IM and know where I need my HR to be to come off the bike strong and ready to run. Thanks for all the advice.
2015-04-22 1:21 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: First Century in the Books and s$:& just got real

Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by marcag Take MPH off your garmin :-)
I think that's the the only solution honestly. I don't have the will power to back off otherwise. Now the question is whether or not I'll give in and reprogram it back on there mid-ride....I mean, I've got 5+ hours with idle hands...

Do not, under any circumstances, pace by speed.  That's a foolish proposition that will likely lead to a whole bunch of walking later in the day.  It's especially risky when wind and hills enter the mix.  IMTX isn't that hilly but it will be hilly compared to where you're coming from.  The wind will also be a factor.  Pacing by speed into the wind and up hills is a recipe for disaster.

Pace by RPE and HR if you do not have a power meter.

 

Agree. I actually did it for my IM a few years ago - i used the screen with HR graph, reading HR and total time.  I set it to split every 5k so i could gauge myself a bit - but the whole focus was on keep the HR reasonable. 

 

2015-04-22 1:53 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: First Century in the Books and s$:& just got real

Originally posted by 3mar I thought I'd follow up with an update. This past weekend I had 5:30 ride scheduled. The conditions for the ride were as bad as they could be in my opinion. The wind at the beginning of the ride was 15 mph and it was 25 mph by the end....and just in case the wind would at least make it tolerable in the temp department, that was a "no" as well. The temperature at the end of my ride was 92 degrees. I think the heat index was 95, so the wind felt a lot like a hair dryer in the face. Although this sounded terrible, it was actually a perfect scenario to test my pacing and most importantly my self control. I watched my HR like a hawk and absolutely never let it go over 130 as per my goal. I finished a lot slower than the week before. It took me the full 5.5 hours to hit 100 miles instead of the sub 5 hour century the week before, however, given the conditions, I felt awesome afterward. There were times going into the headwind that I was barely going 13-14 mph, but I held back and just watched my HR. The two mile run after was hot, but I felt fine. I have a lot more confidence now going into the IM and know where I need my HR to be to come off the bike strong and ready to run. Thanks for all the advice.

Great! You're in great shape for the race! good luck! 

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