General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Do you do open water swims alone? Rss Feed  
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2015-04-17 7:31 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?

Originally posted by spudone

... I've been a lifeguard, and I surf, and I've seen enough saves.  Someone in trouble will often struggle long enough for help to get there.  Even once they go under, if someone saw them panic, they could still be saved.

... claiming that an extra swimmer is useless is ridiculous.

 

I've been a lifeguard too.  

Those saves you've seen.  From a lifeguard?  A surfer, seated on a floating device sitting above the water's surface?  or from another swimmer, doing their own training a few hundred yards away with their head down in the water?

There's no doubt that a person can be saved and that happens.  But please enlighten us as to what happens when another non-lifeguard-trained swimmer is kinda' in the vicinity, and something happens to a swimmer such that they cannot stay atop the water breathing by themselves...  What I learned as a lifeguard, was that you were seriously putting your own life in danger if you try to rescue a panicking swimmer, without a flotation device.  And that's after you've been trained on how to handle a panicking swimmer.  

 

Cycling, however is different.  I read some stats years ago that cycling in a group made you 5 times less likely to get killed by a car.  Makes sense, as groups of riders are far more visible.  (not sure what it did to the probability of going down in a group fall, but few die from road rash)



2015-04-17 8:01 PM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?

Originally posted by jennifer_runs
Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by bufordt
Originally posted by morey000

Swimming with a group is better, because at the end of the swim, they'll notice you're missing, so they can search for your dead body.

This is the key benefit to swimming with someone. They will improve the chances of your body getting recovered. I do my open water swims both alone and with people, but I have no illusions that they will be able to save me. The people I've swam with have never been my speed, so I am either way ahead or way behind. In addition, I'm primarily doing my workout, and not watching them. I also swim at around 100-200m of shore, so we're at least a 4 minute tow from shore. I do keep an eye on my wife when we swim together, but since her big problem is getting scared by fish or weeds, my main benefit to her is calming her down.

I disagree with most of these comments, mainly because I've been a lifeguard, and I surf, and I've seen enough saves.  Someone in trouble will often struggle long enough for help to get there.  Even once they go under, if someone saw them panic, they could still be saved.  And not every problem is a sudden heart attack.  It could be someone hit by a boat, a shark, a jellyfish, etc...

I just find it odd how many triathletes discount this while on the other hand, surfers know the benefit.

If you get into distress bad enough that you can't make it to shore and you're alone, your chance of survival is roughly zero.  If you're comfortable, then more power to you.  But claiming that an extra swimmer is useless is ridiculous.

Thanks for this. I suspect many triathletes discount the value of swimming with a buddy or near a lifeguard because it's just less convenient to train that way. So they justify it by saying "it's not that much safer."

Since I responded previously, I just wanted to comment here.  

I do, indeed, recognize that there is a benefit to life guards and such.  All I'm saying is that I do swim alone and recognize the risk profile.  I don't do it because I think it's the same risk profile as swimming within sight of a lifeguard or with a group, nor do I change my opinion of the risk based on convenience.  This risk is there.  It's just that I'm comfortable trading the increased risk for swimming when/where/how I want to.  So, for me, the increase isn't enough to change my approach at this point.

That could change.  It certainly has wrt biking.  Having moved to Austin from Concord, MA, I now do the great majority of my cycling in the garage (and I loathe the trainer).  The risk profile on the roads here is one that I only accept at certain times (some weekends and some roads, but not during the week).

Actually, my OWS "methodology" has changed in one regard to manage risk.  We have a cottage on a beach in MA where there was a GWS attack last summer (2 weeks after we moved to Austin) exactly on my typical OWS route.  I have since modified my route to be so close to shore that I'm almost swimming in the sand.  And if I were swimming with others, I'd definitely be safer!  

Matt

2015-04-17 8:35 PM
in reply to: TriTampa2

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
Depends on what's mean by "alone". If it means not with a designated OWS group and kayak escort then yes, I do. Otherwise I would pretty much get no chance for OWS training. On the other hand, I normally take at least two, and usually three or all four , of the following precautions:

1. Lifeguards are on duty; if feasible, I've told them what I'm doing.
2. Other people are swimming in the area (preferably not just playing around, but swimming point to point like me).
3.If it's not somewhere I swim a lot, I've talked to locals, preferably those who are swimming, or the lifeguard, about current conditions. and possible hazards.
4. Someone is watching me swim from the shoreline. (In Oregon, its usually my mom, who actually can't swim. But hopefully she could get help, or at least know I hadn't returned as planned.

I also tend to swim parallel to shore and as close as I can without touching bottom, unless that puts me in danger of getting cut by coral or washed onto the beach (in the ocean).

I realize there's some risk but as others have said, for a strong swimmer, probably less than riding in traffic and certainly less than in traffic here. It's just a risk I have to balance with the risk of panicking in a race because I don't have enough experience with OWS, or (for US races) swimming in my wetsuit ad cold water.

The only time I've really gotten into trouble in the water, it actually was when swimming with a group, with some kayak escorts. A sudden windstorm blew up, the lake fogged over, and no one realized I was in trouble; the faster members of the group swam on because I couldn't yell to get their attention, and the escort was following weaker swimmers. Not sure what happened, but my wetsuit started taking on (very cold) water and I was having trouble catching my breath and staying afloat, plus couldn't see shore. Had I not been a strong swimmer it's possible I could have panicked and drowned. In retrospect, conditions were marginal that day and I never would have gone out in them without the veneer of "safety" that the group and escort provided.
2015-04-17 10:42 PM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
Yep. I don't think I have EVER done a long ride on an open road alone, at least by choice. (Maybe when I was dropped on a group ride, but I'd be desperately trying to catch someone, and probably would at the next big hill or after the speedsters wore themselves out from their surge. In any case the ride leader would know I was out there.) I'll admit, in Saigon, I won't ride alone at all unless it's my four-mile loop around the industrial park, where there are security guards every few hundred meters who could help me call a taxi if I had a mechanical or medical issue. Even the 5 km to and from it scares me. It's not just a matter of traffic, but being female (women motorbike riders have been violently attacked on some local roads), not sure of my ability to deal with mechanical situations, especially when surrounded by curious and not necessarily friendly locals (including those who want to help and may or may not know what they're doing!), not being proficient in the language, and not wanting to have to deal with a crash, heat exhaustion, or other medical issue without someone else to help out.
2015-04-18 12:06 AM
in reply to: TriTampa2

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?

I'm fortunate enough to have a group of 5 to 10 people that swim together regularly.  We all swim at different paces but we start together and finish at the same point.  I'm the youngest at 64 but so far no problems.  A couple of the people also have kayaks and they hover all around us the whole way.

Last year, on our first OWS of the season I was half way across the lake about 500m from shore and as I was swimming along I looked up as I took a breath and there were three vultures circling overhead (!!).  I didn't even know we had vultures in our area.

A few weeks later we were swimming at the same lake and after our swim a young (40-something) woman came by to swim alone.  After chatting for a bit she blew up a "swimbuddy" and went for a swim.  We watched her swim to the far end of the lake (just over a km away) and we could see her the whole way thanks to the swim buddy.

2015-04-18 2:20 AM
in reply to: morey000

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
Originally posted by morey000

I think that a product like this is a good idea:

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/12/exclusive-branded-openwater.html

For visibility as well as an emergency flotation device.  Storage as well.




I am doing 2 open water swims this year, and one of them has made the use of one of these mandatory ( they supply them with an option to purchase )

I think it's a fantastic idea, and really would make me feel safer in the water, now I might go ahead and buy one myself.

I've never swam completely alone though!

http://swimbuddy.ca/


2015-04-18 3:22 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
Thinking of getting one of these over the summer, mainly for the visibility benefits (for the boaters who also use the lake I do OWS in in Oregon, and so Mom/lifeguards can see me better), and the storage capacity would be a great solution as I like to do OWS on vacation and often stress about what to do with money, keys, etc. Have done some jerry-rigged solutions with ziplock bags but on one situation I had my passport and a lot of cash with me and that was a bit nerve-wracking--ended up asking the lifeguard to safeguard my passport and ziplocked the $ and swum with them and the hotel key in the pocket of my trisuit. Plus, if it can function as a PFD, even better.

Edited by Hot Runner 2015-04-18 3:23 AM
2015-04-18 6:23 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
I don't do that many open-water swims, but when I do my Dad comes with me in his kayak. I never even considered drowning/panicking or whatever, what I worry about is boats or more likely jetskis. The jetskier population seems to have a lower IQ than normal and they are pretty reckless/clueless.

I do 100% of my (outdoor) bike riding alone on country roads. Some have a paved shoulder but most don't. I wear fluorescent yellow and have a mirror mounted on my helmet. It's not risk-free but I feel safer than people who have to ride in cities (every cycling fatality here happens in the city).
2015-04-18 8:28 AM
in reply to: RRH_88

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
Hardly ever train ows. Swimming long course in a coldish pool is better training for me.
2015-04-18 8:33 AM
in reply to: dfquigley

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
http://www.saferswimmer.com/phone/index.html

I have this version. Again rarely train ows. What race made them mandatory?

Swim Canada has an open water national camp in Kelowna. I suggest watching them. The kids will be fast.
2015-04-18 8:36 AM
in reply to: TriTampa2


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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
Not alone....there are usually a bunch of fish.


2015-04-18 3:16 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
Originally posted by simpsonbo

What race made them mandatory?



Rattlesnake Island Swim.

"All swimmers will be required to use a Swim Buddy, a safety device that you can learn more about here. You can practice using one of these at the Open Water Swim Clinics in Kelowna, where these will be available, both to test drive and for sale.

http://rattlesnakeislandswim.com/swim-details/

Up until this year or last a paddler was required to accompany you on both the 3.1 km and 7.0 km swims, but now it`s only required for the 7 ( but still recommended for the 3.1 ) I wouldn`t be surprised if this played a role in not requiring them for the 3.1 km swim now.

Edited by dfquigley 2015-04-18 3:18 PM
2015-04-18 3:18 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
Originally posted by simpsonbo


Swim Canada has an open water national camp in Kelowna. I suggest watching them. The kids will be fast.


Awesome, will do!
2015-04-18 7:26 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
I have only ever swam in a group when racing. Otherwise I swim alone in the bay by my house. The water is fairly shallow allowing me to swim along the shore and still be chest deep. I have never been too concerned but I am also very comfortable in the water.

Edited by DaveL 2015-04-18 7:27 PM
2015-04-18 9:29 PM
in reply to: DaveL

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
I do. I do use a dollar-store version of a Swim It, though -- a pool noodle with a shoelace tied to it that's clipped to my race belt snapped around my waist. I've never needed it, but if I got in trouble I could rest on the noodle or use it to help me paddle to shore. I also text my husband before I get in and when I get out, but I do that for rides and runs, too, to let him know I'm alive and heading home.

I'm under no delusions that another swimmer could save me even if I were to go in a group. I swim in a small, freshwater lake which doesn't have any boat traffic other than the occasional raft. There aren't lifeguards and I doubt the park staff could get there in time if I called for help.
2015-04-19 9:51 PM
in reply to: TriTampa2

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
Yes, no qualms as a group is not much safer, but don't go in REAL open water. I was just in Hawaii and swam in the lagoon near our resort and swim at our cabin whenever up there if the water temp is decent. It is a smaller lake with no public access and I swim along the shoreline in 3 to 8 feet of water generally. Also swim on a lake near Lake Tahoe most summers. I could just as easily drown at my health club pool as it does not have lifeguards and other swimmers (if there are any, I often have the pool to myself) would not likely notice me until I was a goner. It only take like 20 or 30 second to drown if you get into real trouble.

My swimming ability would not likely be the factor if I drown. Probably a heart attack or stroke or something.


2015-04-19 10:02 PM
in reply to: ejshowers


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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
You're never alone when you swim in the ocean in Australia, if you catch my drift!
2015-04-22 6:18 AM
in reply to: TriTampa2

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
Originally posted by TriTampa2

Just wondering if anybody does open water swims alone if a lifeguard is present. Or do you only swim with another person swimming with you?


Disclaimer--Solo OWS is less safe than swimming with others.
That said--Only time I swim WITH someone is during a race.
I solo OWS 1+miles almost every other day, year round. However, I swim in near perfect OW conditions so I might not be the best resource. I swim in crystal clear, 83F, 4-8' deep water that many times is shallow enough to stand up in if I get into trouble.
What adds validity to what I just wrote, is that this exact same area that I swim train in sees at least 1 drownding a month due to an often severe shore rip current. So it is VERY important that you understand the conditions of YOUR swim location, especially if you are swimming alone. If there are boats in your swim area, tow a buoy WITH a dive flag. If you are concerned enough, tow a buoy so you can grab onto if needed for any reason. Swim close to shore in water just deep enough to not touch your fingers on the bottom, but this will not work if there is a beach surf. Bottom line, always attempt to modify your OW swim to be as safe as possible.
hope this helps
2015-04-22 8:47 AM
in reply to: TriTampa2

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?
Yup. Buy I do take some precautions - I try to stay within 100m of the shore, wear a wet suit (allows me to float), wear a bright yellow cap for visibility.

2015-04-22 9:11 AM
in reply to: TriTampa2

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Subject: RE: Do you do open water swims alone?

I always swim at a guarded public beach, about half the time with a group from the tri club and the rest solo.  With the group we'll normally swim the buoy line parallel to the beach about 100 yd out.  When I'm alone I'll usually only go out to chest-deep water, just in case.

Our tri club group usually splits up into groups speed-wise.  I was the leader for the slow group last time and would pause about every 100 yds to count heads.  Poor navigation and sighting skills are typically the biggest challenge to keepiing the group together.   I always tell newbies that it's OK to head to shore any time they feel uncomfortable.  No shame in walking back along the beach; we've all been there before..

Mark

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