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2015-09-17 12:12 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

I'm knocking the dust off this post.  Has your son tested latex yet?



2015-09-17 12:23 PM
in reply to: GAUG3

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

Nah. We've talked about it and next year looks like we'll go ahead unless whatever college he decides on derails his triathlon racing for now.  Interestingly enough, it looks like he may take a full ride scholarship offer to cycle in college.  They want to make him a track cyclist for 4km individual pursuit.  He did some testing and his numbers got somebody excited.  The only drawback for it to happen is whether they will also let him run track like he wants to.  If that happens.....I'm pretty sure he's not listening to anything I have to say about cycling anymore. LOL 

2015-09-17 7:59 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

I went through a lot of latex in college.

Oh never mind... I see we're talking about tubes. :-)

2015-09-17 11:11 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Nah. We've talked about it and next year looks like we'll go ahead unless whatever college he decides on derails his triathlon racing for now.  Interestingly enough, it looks like he may take a full ride scholarship offer to cycle in college.  They want to make him a track cyclist for 4km individual pursuit.  He did some testing and his numbers got somebody excited.  The only drawback for it to happen is whether they will also let him run track like he wants to.  If that happens.....I'm pretty sure he's not listening to anything I have to say about cycling anymore. LOL 

Get him on a swim scholarship while you're at it... before long, they'll be paying YOU to send him to school

2015-09-18 9:42 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

Nah. We've talked about it and next year looks like we'll go ahead unless whatever college he decides on derails his triathlon racing for now.  Interestingly enough, it looks like he may take a full ride scholarship offer to cycle in college.  They want to make him a track cyclist for 4km individual pursuit.  He did some testing and his numbers got somebody excited.  The only drawback for it to happen is whether they will also let him run track like he wants to.  If that happens.....I'm pretty sure he's not listening to anything I have to say about cycling anymore. LOL 

Get him on a swim scholarship while you're at it... before long, they'll be paying YOU to send him to school

He's not fast enough.  If you are a boy trying to go to college on a swim scholarship you better have Olympic trial cuts.  The world is FULL of kids who can swim :49/100.

2015-09-18 10:25 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

Nah. We've talked about it and next year looks like we'll go ahead unless whatever college he decides on derails his triathlon racing for now.  Interestingly enough, it looks like he may take a full ride scholarship offer to cycle in college.  They want to make him a track cyclist for 4km individual pursuit.  He did some testing and his numbers got somebody excited.  The only drawback for it to happen is whether they will also let him run track like he wants to.  If that happens.....I'm pretty sure he's not listening to anything I have to say about cycling anymore. LOL 

Get him on a swim scholarship while you're at it... before long, they'll be paying YOU to send him to school

He's not fast enough.  If you are a boy trying to go to college on a swim scholarship you better have Olympic trial cuts.  The world is FULL of kids who can swim :49/100.

Yeah I hear you.  When I was in school we had only a few guys go on to scholarships (maybe 3 per grade?).  All of them were All-American and 2 were Olympic alternates.  I think there's a little more leeway if you're talking about small schools, or if you're a true specialist in one stroke, but it's tough.



2015-09-18 10:40 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

Nah. We've talked about it and next year looks like we'll go ahead unless whatever college he decides on derails his triathlon racing for now.  Interestingly enough, it looks like he may take a full ride scholarship offer to cycle in college.  They want to make him a track cyclist for 4km individual pursuit.  He did some testing and his numbers got somebody excited.  The only drawback for it to happen is whether they will also let him run track like he wants to.  If that happens.....I'm pretty sure he's not listening to anything I have to say about cycling anymore. LOL 

Get him on a swim scholarship while you're at it... before long, they'll be paying YOU to send him to school

He's not fast enough.  If you are a boy trying to go to college on a swim scholarship you better have Olympic trial cuts.  The world is FULL of kids who can swim :49/100.

Yeah I hear you.  When I was in school we had only a few guys go on to scholarships (maybe 3 per grade?).  All of them were All-American and 2 were Olympic alternates.  I think there's a little more leeway if you're talking about small schools, or if you're a true specialist in one stroke, but it's tough.

There are kids on the swim club here who have 6-8 Jr. National cuts and they are swimming in college.  I was stunned to find out that NOT ONE of them got any athletic scholarship money beyond one kid who is getting his books paid for through some endowment fund.  On the other hand, we have 2 kids coming out of the club program this year who have Olympic trial cuts who are going to college on full scholarships.  BUT......there were a number of schools who contacted them and had some offers of academic scholarship money but ZERO athletic money.  Boys swimming, from what I can see, is not a big priority for colleges to sign athletes to participate in.  It's a victim of Title 9 (I have NO problem with title 9) and the fact that the "market" is flooded with kids who can swim fast enough for college programs.  USA Swimming does a fabulous job at the club level........and they raise TONS of fast kids.  It's really no wonder that the U.S. is at the top of the heap in international competition.....but colleges can have many of the fast kids for nothing and they know it.  Swim kids tend to come from families with other means to pay for college.

2015-09-18 12:07 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

Nah. We've talked about it and next year looks like we'll go ahead unless whatever college he decides on derails his triathlon racing for now.  Interestingly enough, it looks like he may take a full ride scholarship offer to cycle in college.  They want to make him a track cyclist for 4km individual pursuit.  He did some testing and his numbers got somebody excited.  The only drawback for it to happen is whether they will also let him run track like he wants to.  If that happens.....I'm pretty sure he's not listening to anything I have to say about cycling anymore. LOL 

Get him on a swim scholarship while you're at it... before long, they'll be paying YOU to send him to school

He's not fast enough.  If you are a boy trying to go to college on a swim scholarship you better have Olympic trial cuts.  The world is FULL of kids who can swim :49/100.




Back in the 80's when I swam the top guy's in every HS league were somewhere between :48-:52 /100. I was at :50, that gets you on a college team but people have to remember there a bunch of leagues in every District and a bunch of districts in every state. which leaves you with 50 to 100+ high school kids in every state hitting those times. Under :48 people STARTED to look at you, I don't know where that mark is today.
2015-09-18 12:09 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

Nah. We've talked about it and next year looks like we'll go ahead unless whatever college he decides on derails his triathlon racing for now.  Interestingly enough, it looks like he may take a full ride scholarship offer to cycle in college.  They want to make him a track cyclist for 4km individual pursuit.  He did some testing and his numbers got somebody excited.  The only drawback for it to happen is whether they will also let him run track like he wants to.  If that happens.....I'm pretty sure he's not listening to anything I have to say about cycling anymore. LOL 

Get him on a swim scholarship while you're at it... before long, they'll be paying YOU to send him to school

He's not fast enough.  If you are a boy trying to go to college on a swim scholarship you better have Olympic trial cuts.  The world is FULL of kids who can swim :49/100.

Back in the 80's when I swam the top guy's in every HS league were somewhere between :48-:52 /100. I was at :50, that gets you on a college team but people have to remember there a bunch of leagues in every District and a bunch of districts in every state. which leaves you with 50 to 100+ high school kids in every state hitting those times. Under :48 people STARTED to look at you, I don't know where that mark is today.

It's lower.  I know kids with :46 100's and 1:42 200's in club swimming that are swimming in college, and had good grades......but not a sniff of athletic scholarship money.  It IS different for girls......there is quite a bit more scholarship money available.

ETA - Also....there are less schools now with men's swimming programs.  Victims of Title IX. (again, don't hate, I LIKE Title IX)



Edited by Left Brain 2015-09-18 12:22 PM
2015-09-18 12:21 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?
Why is it different (in your opinion) for girls?

Title IX doesn't stipulate scholarships be offered, as far as I know.

Just curious.
2015-09-18 12:29 PM
in reply to: nc452010

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

Originally posted by nc452010 Why is it different (in your opinion) for girls? Title IX doesn't stipulate scholarships be offered, as far as I know. Just curious.

Correct, but many men's swimming programs have been cut while women's swimming has been left to fill in the difference in scholarships given to Football, Basketball, etc.  Typically, and especially at any school with a football program, there are more women's sport options.

So, to answer your question, men's swimming generates no revenue, and there are no scholarships to offer, so the programs have been cut at many schools.  And yes, the ones who didn't cut the programs just don't offer many, if any, scholarships for boys.

While Title IX doesn't stipulate a scholarship be offered, a school MUST offer as many Athletic scholarships to women as men.....so they cut some men's sports to finance other women's sports.

Of course that's a simplified version of what Title IX is.....but the result is what it is.



2015-09-18 12:30 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

Nah. We've talked about it and next year looks like we'll go ahead unless whatever college he decides on derails his triathlon racing for now.  Interestingly enough, it looks like he may take a full ride scholarship offer to cycle in college.  They want to make him a track cyclist for 4km individual pursuit.  He did some testing and his numbers got somebody excited.  The only drawback for it to happen is whether they will also let him run track like he wants to.  If that happens.....I'm pretty sure he's not listening to anything I have to say about cycling anymore. LOL 

Get him on a swim scholarship while you're at it... before long, they'll be paying YOU to send him to school

He's not fast enough.  If you are a boy trying to go to college on a swim scholarship you better have Olympic trial cuts.  The world is FULL of kids who can swim :49/100.

Back in the 80's when I swam the top guy's in every HS league were somewhere between :48-:52 /100. I was at :50, that gets you on a college team but people have to remember there a bunch of leagues in every District and a bunch of districts in every state. which leaves you with 50 to 100+ high school kids in every state hitting those times. Under :48 people STARTED to look at you, I don't know where that mark is today.

It's lower.  I know kids with :46 100's and 1:42 200's in club swimming that are swimming in college, and had good grades......but not a sniff of athletic scholarship money.  It IS different for girls......there is quite a bit more scholarship money available.

ETA - Also....there are less schools now with men's swimming programs.  Victims of Title IX. (again, don't hate, I LIKE Title IX)




I figured it was much lower now. When I swam doing a dolphin kick off the walls in Free was illegal(mixing strokes), same with flipping to your front to do your turn in backstroke. Both of these that make kids faster today would have gotten you a DQ back in the day.

I think it's very difficult for triathletes to understand how slow they really are compared to swimmers
2015-09-18 12:37 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?
I'm familiar with Title IX. I wasn't aware schools had to offer equal scholarships. I thought it had to offer equal number of sports.

Learn something every day.

Edited by nc452010 2015-09-18 12:39 PM
2015-09-18 1:00 PM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

Nah. We've talked about it and next year looks like we'll go ahead unless whatever college he decides on derails his triathlon racing for now.  Interestingly enough, it looks like he may take a full ride scholarship offer to cycle in college.  They want to make him a track cyclist for 4km individual pursuit.  He did some testing and his numbers got somebody excited.  The only drawback for it to happen is whether they will also let him run track like he wants to.  If that happens.....I'm pretty sure he's not listening to anything I have to say about cycling anymore. LOL 

Get him on a swim scholarship while you're at it... before long, they'll be paying YOU to send him to school

He's not fast enough.  If you are a boy trying to go to college on a swim scholarship you better have Olympic trial cuts.  The world is FULL of kids who can swim :49/100.

Back in the 80's when I swam the top guy's in every HS league were somewhere between :48-:52 /100. I was at :50, that gets you on a college team but people have to remember there a bunch of leagues in every District and a bunch of districts in every state. which leaves you with 50 to 100+ high school kids in every state hitting those times. Under :48 people STARTED to look at you, I don't know where that mark is today.

It's lower.  I know kids with :46 100's and 1:42 200's in club swimming that are swimming in college, and had good grades......but not a sniff of athletic scholarship money.  It IS different for girls......there is quite a bit more scholarship money available.

ETA - Also....there are less schools now with men's swimming programs.  Victims of Title IX. (again, don't hate, I LIKE Title IX)

I figured it was much lower now. When I swam doing a dolphin kick off the walls in Free was illegal(mixing strokes), same with flipping to your front to do your turn in backstroke. Both of these that make kids faster today would have gotten you a DQ back in the day. I think it's very difficult for triathletes to understand how slow they really are compared to swimmers

Very true.  The only triathletes who do understand are those competing in drat legal racing.  If you can't swim really fast, you can't play.  In fact, at least at the Jr. Elite level (and those are the triathletes who are going to grow up to be the fastest among us)....for the most part, if you aren't in a year round competitive swim culture, you cannot compete.

2015-09-18 1:39 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

Nah. We've talked about it and next year looks like we'll go ahead unless whatever college he decides on derails his triathlon racing for now.  Interestingly enough, it looks like he may take a full ride scholarship offer to cycle in college.  They want to make him a track cyclist for 4km individual pursuit.  He did some testing and his numbers got somebody excited.  The only drawback for it to happen is whether they will also let him run track like he wants to.  If that happens.....I'm pretty sure he's not listening to anything I have to say about cycling anymore. LOL 

Get him on a swim scholarship while you're at it... before long, they'll be paying YOU to send him to school

He's not fast enough.  If you are a boy trying to go to college on a swim scholarship you better have Olympic trial cuts.  The world is FULL of kids who can swim :49/100.

Back in the 80's when I swam the top guy's in every HS league were somewhere between :48-:52 /100. I was at :50, that gets you on a college team but people have to remember there a bunch of leagues in every District and a bunch of districts in every state. which leaves you with 50 to 100+ high school kids in every state hitting those times. Under :48 people STARTED to look at you, I don't know where that mark is today.

It's lower.  I know kids with :46 100's and 1:42 200's in club swimming that are swimming in college, and had good grades......but not a sniff of athletic scholarship money.  It IS different for girls......there is quite a bit more scholarship money available.

ETA - Also....there are less schools now with men's swimming programs.  Victims of Title IX. (again, don't hate, I LIKE Title IX)

I figured it was much lower now. When I swam doing a dolphin kick off the walls in Free was illegal(mixing strokes), same with flipping to your front to do your turn in backstroke. Both of these that make kids faster today would have gotten you a DQ back in the day. I think it's very difficult for triathletes to understand how slow they really are compared to swimmers

Very true.  The only triathletes who do understand are those competing in drat legal racing.  If you can't swim really fast, you can't play.  In fact, at least at the Jr. Elite level (and those are the triathletes who are going to grow up to be the fastest among us)....for the most part, if you aren't in a year round competitive swim culture, you cannot compete.

I wouldn't even put it like that. Too easy to write it off as most aren't going to be in it for the race and do accept that much. Doesn't have to be "if you're not first you're last" either. Or at least, it's easy for many to take it that way (right or wrong, it still happens). I tend to look decent in the swim in the races I do, but do know where I've been at. For a lot of things, the ability of a 4th grader is going to look really darn good in comparison to a kindergartner or 1st grader, but still not really great in comparison to people as a whole.

Also, many would do well to distinguish between making good progress or working well at it against actually being good at it. It's very possible to accomplish the former without achieving the latter. Swimming 400 or 800 yds the first time out might really be completely exhausting for someone their first time out, and they will have done a good job doing it. But then a child taking a few steps before their first birthday might say the same thing. No one would really say that kid (or even a toddler making it across the room) is a great runner even though it is significant progress. And that comparison is not really *that* much of a stretch considering how foreign the motions of swimming are compared to other activities. Being willing to swallow some pride and go to basics can really help with this.

2015-09-18 1:49 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

Nah. We've talked about it and next year looks like we'll go ahead unless whatever college he decides on derails his triathlon racing for now.  Interestingly enough, it looks like he may take a full ride scholarship offer to cycle in college.  They want to make him a track cyclist for 4km individual pursuit.  He did some testing and his numbers got somebody excited.  The only drawback for it to happen is whether they will also let him run track like he wants to.  If that happens.....I'm pretty sure he's not listening to anything I have to say about cycling anymore. LOL 

Get him on a swim scholarship while you're at it... before long, they'll be paying YOU to send him to school

He's not fast enough.  If you are a boy trying to go to college on a swim scholarship you better have Olympic trial cuts.  The world is FULL of kids who can swim :49/100.

Back in the 80's when I swam the top guy's in every HS league were somewhere between :48-:52 /100. I was at :50, that gets you on a college team but people have to remember there a bunch of leagues in every District and a bunch of districts in every state. which leaves you with 50 to 100+ high school kids in every state hitting those times. Under :48 people STARTED to look at you, I don't know where that mark is today.

It's lower.  I know kids with :46 100's and 1:42 200's in club swimming that are swimming in college, and had good grades......but not a sniff of athletic scholarship money.  It IS different for girls......there is quite a bit more scholarship money available.

ETA - Also....there are less schools now with men's swimming programs.  Victims of Title IX. (again, don't hate, I LIKE Title IX)

I figured it was much lower now. When I swam doing a dolphin kick off the walls in Free was illegal(mixing strokes), same with flipping to your front to do your turn in backstroke. Both of these that make kids faster today would have gotten you a DQ back in the day. I think it's very difficult for triathletes to understand how slow they really are compared to swimmers

Very true.  The only triathletes who do understand are those competing in drat legal racing.  If you can't swim really fast, you can't play.  In fact, at least at the Jr. Elite level (and those are the triathletes who are going to grow up to be the fastest among us)....for the most part, if you aren't in a year round competitive swim culture, you cannot compete.

I wouldn't even put it like that. Too easy to write it off as most aren't going to be in it for the race and do accept that much. Doesn't have to be "if you're not first you're last" either. Or at least, it's easy for many to take it that way (right or wrong, it still happens). I tend to look decent in the swim in the races I do, but do know where I've been at. For a lot of things, the ability of a 4th grader is going to look really darn good in comparison to a kindergartner or 1st grader, but still not really great in comparison to people as a whole.

Also, many would do well to distinguish between making good progress or working well at it against actually being good at it. It's very possible to accomplish the former without achieving the latter. Swimming 400 or 800 yds the first time out might really be completely exhausting for someone their first time out, and they will have done a good job doing it. But then a child taking a few steps before their first birthday might say the same thing. No one would really say that kid (or even a toddler making it across the room) is a great runner even though it is significant progress. And that comparison is not really *that* much of a stretch considering how foreign the motions of swimming are compared to other activities. Being willing to swallow some pride and go to basics can really help with this.

I agree 100%....and if you look at what I wrote in the "flipper" thread you'll see my sentiments.  When my kid asked if he could try his hand a the Jr. Elite circuit I thought he would easily be competitive.  He had won is AG handily at all of our local races and even won overall a few times as a 13 year old.  He was swimming about 1:30-1:40 per 100 and killing it.  In his first Youth Elite race he got out of the water nearly dead last, and finished 46th overall.  Time for a wake up call on what swimming fast actually was. (I had no swim background).  His, and my, initiation into club swimming started immediately after tat race.  I've learned quite a bit about swimming fast since then, and about training to be fast in swimming, and then triathlon. 

For absolute surety, any progress made by all of us in the pool is a BIG win.  But there is still a VER large gap in what people who do triathlon think is fast swimming and training to swim faster and what that actually looks like. 

As I said in the other thread.....for most it is a time constraint......on the other hand, most of the "triathlon swim training" I see is absolutely full of wasted time.  AG'ers could learn a ton from the way swimmers actually train.



2015-09-18 8:33 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

Yeah, did see the posts about the flippers. But heck if I can remember which thread! I mean, we're on Jr Elite swimming in a thread on latex tubes. Was it actually in the flipper thread? 

2015-09-18 8:48 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Why latex tubes?

Originally posted by brigby1

Yeah, did see the posts about the flippers. But heck if I can remember which thread! I mean, we're on Jr Elite swimming in a thread on latex tubes. Was it actually in the flipper thread? 

I can't stand straight line threads.......wandering is in my DNA.

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