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2015-05-21 12:59 PM
in reply to: triathlonpal07

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Subject: RE: Bought Speed

Originally posted by triathlonpal07
Originally posted by spudone

3. It's again at pro speeds, so the seconds gained at AG level will not be the same, thereby making the $/second a higher ratio

bzzt, try again.

You wanna give more explanation as to why I'm wrong rather than just saying "you're wrong"? There is a reason that when they give this wind tunnel data they give the speed at which they tested it; namely, the higher the speed, the more the wind resistance and therefore the more aerodynamics plays a role. That means that at the average pro speed, the difference in drag creates more of an advantage in Time/Distance than at the slower average AG speed. So, the point stands. The seconds gained for an upgrade in aerodynamics will be more at a higher speed.

actually you gain more time overall at a slower pace....because you're out there for longer. 



2015-05-21 1:17 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Bought Speed

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by triathlonpal07
Originally posted by spudone

3. It's again at pro speeds, so the seconds gained at AG level will not be the same, thereby making the $/second a higher ratio

bzzt, try again.

You wanna give more explanation as to why I'm wrong rather than just saying "you're wrong"? There is a reason that when they give this wind tunnel data they give the speed at which they tested it; namely, the higher the speed, the more the wind resistance and therefore the more aerodynamics plays a role. That means that at the average pro speed, the difference in drag creates more of an advantage in Time/Distance than at the slower average AG speed. So, the point stands. The seconds gained for an upgrade in aerodynamics will be more at a higher speed.

actually you gain more time overall at a slower pace....because you're out there for longer. 

Correct.

Lets say you make an aerodynamic improvement such as race wheels.  At 30 mph, you might save 0.4 mph, and at 20 mph, you might save 0.25 mph.  It is true that at higher speeds, aerodynamics play a bigger factor, and improvements will yield more SPEED gains.  But over a given course, that doesn't mean TIME gains will be any different, or as triathlonpal put it "seconds gained at the AG level will not be the same and $/second a higher ratio."

Over the course of a 10 mile course, a 0.4 mph improvement from 30 mph to 30.4 mph will result in a 15.79 second time improvement.

Over that same course, a 0.25 mph improvement from 20 mph to 20.25 mph will result in a 18.83 second time improvement.

So it is very possible that the slower rider, despite a smaller bump in speed gains, will still benefit from more time saved, and a better $/second ratio.



Edited by Jason N 2015-05-21 1:19 PM
2015-05-21 2:01 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Bought Speed
Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by triathlonpal07
Originally posted by spudone

3. It's again at pro speeds, so the seconds gained at AG level will not be the same, thereby making the $/second a higher ratio

bzzt, try again.

You wanna give more explanation as to why I'm wrong rather than just saying "you're wrong"? There is a reason that when they give this wind tunnel data they give the speed at which they tested it; namely, the higher the speed, the more the wind resistance and therefore the more aerodynamics plays a role. That means that at the average pro speed, the difference in drag creates more of an advantage in Time/Distance than at the slower average AG speed. So, the point stands. The seconds gained for an upgrade in aerodynamics will be more at a higher speed.

actually you gain more time overall at a slower pace....because you're out there for longer. 

Correct.

Lets say you make an aerodynamic improvement such as race wheels.  At 30 mph, you might save 0.4 mph, and at 20 mph, you might save 0.25 mph.  It is true that at higher speeds, aerodynamics play a bigger factor, and improvements will yield more SPEED gains.  But over a given course, that doesn't mean TIME gains will be any different, or as triathlonpal put it "seconds gained at the AG level will not be the same and $/second a higher ratio."

Over the course of a 10 mile course, a 0.4 mph improvement from 30 mph to 30.4 mph will result in a 15.79 second time improvement.

Over that same course, a 0.25 mph improvement from 20 mph to 20.25 mph will result in a 18.83 second time improvement.

So it is very possible that the slower rider, despite a smaller bump in speed gains, will still benefit from more time saved, and a better $/second ratio.




Ok, I see what you are getting at. The speed gain is lower but the time gain is higher.

But still, the $/second gained is way higher with an upgrade in Bike than other available upgrades. Unless you really just wanna throw money around, it is better spent in other places than a new bike.
2015-05-21 2:04 PM
in reply to: triathlonpal07

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Subject: RE: Bought Speed

Originally posted by triathlonpal07
Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by triathlonpal07
Originally posted by spudone

3. It's again at pro speeds, so the seconds gained at AG level will not be the same, thereby making the $/second a higher ratio

bzzt, try again.

You wanna give more explanation as to why I'm wrong rather than just saying "you're wrong"? There is a reason that when they give this wind tunnel data they give the speed at which they tested it; namely, the higher the speed, the more the wind resistance and therefore the more aerodynamics plays a role. That means that at the average pro speed, the difference in drag creates more of an advantage in Time/Distance than at the slower average AG speed. So, the point stands. The seconds gained for an upgrade in aerodynamics will be more at a higher speed.

actually you gain more time overall at a slower pace....because you're out there for longer. 

Correct.

Lets say you make an aerodynamic improvement such as race wheels.  At 30 mph, you might save 0.4 mph, and at 20 mph, you might save 0.25 mph.  It is true that at higher speeds, aerodynamics play a bigger factor, and improvements will yield more SPEED gains.  But over a given course, that doesn't mean TIME gains will be any different, or as triathlonpal put it "seconds gained at the AG level will not be the same and $/second a higher ratio."

Over the course of a 10 mile course, a 0.4 mph improvement from 30 mph to 30.4 mph will result in a 15.79 second time improvement.

Over that same course, a 0.25 mph improvement from 20 mph to 20.25 mph will result in a 18.83 second time improvement.

So it is very possible that the slower rider, despite a smaller bump in speed gains, will still benefit from more time saved, and a better $/second ratio.

Ok, I see what you are getting at. The speed gain is lower but the time gain is higher. But still, the $/second gained is way higher with an upgrade in Bike than other available upgrades. Unless you really just wanna throw money around, it is better spent in other places than a new bike.

Position is key. Not so much the bike.

If you need a new frame to enable you to get you into that more aero position, then yes, the bike matters. If you can adapt your current position on your current frame... then maybe a bike is not the most bang for your buck. 

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