General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Newb Q: Swimming Rss Feed  
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2015-05-28 11:53 AM


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Subject: Newb Q: Swimming
Hello All. First time posting. I have been running the past 2 years and finished a half marathon this past weekend. I am big (6'3", 265#) and slow (12:00/mile). But I finished without walking and very pleased with my progress (lost 70 lbs over past 2 years, some of it for a second time).

I plan to run another half marathon in October and had been thinking of running a Sprint Triathlon in August as a way to vary my routine and, eventually, transition from so many miles running. So, I went to my rec league pool last night and was amazed how difficult it was. I think I did 16-20 lengths.

I plan to swim 3 times a week for a few weeks and assess where I am. My question is whether it is possible to build up to a half mile from basically scratch in 11 weeks? My only concern is drowning. I don't care about time. I don't care if I alternate to breaststroke or sidestroke occasionally. I would just like to finish. Is this realistically possible? If possible, any advised training? My only thought was to build up like the C25K plan, building up to the distance/time, then combining the lengths to reduce rest periods.

Edited by SpartanJD01 2015-05-28 11:55 AM


2015-05-28 12:07 PM
in reply to: SpartanJD01

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409
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Durham, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Newb Q: Swimming
In my case the biggest problem I had was learning how to breath effectively. Once I was able to swim and breathe at the same time everything became MUCH easier! I would find some drills that work on that. Obviously the best answer is to get swim lessons. I did this eventually and it was the best triathlon money I've spent yet! I recommend total immersion. If you can find a coach in your area that offers those types of lessons do it (if you are in or near Miami I can recommend a coach). If not or you just don't want to check out the total immersion videos. That's what I did to start and it was also very helpful, but nowhere near as good as a coach. There are other things on youtube for free too, but I never really used them. I'll post a video of a drill that helped my breathing the most.

PS: You don't have to breathe on both sides. I always breathe to one side. I want to eventually be able to breathe on both sides, but I will still breathe every two strokes not three

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ePIQb7bXw
2015-05-28 12:31 PM
in reply to: SpartanJD01


701
500100100
Subject: RE: Newb Q: Swimming
Way to go on the weightloss. I did the same thing a few years back.

16 lengths is probably 400 meters...possibly yards. Obviously depends on the pool, but I'd guess it's likely a 25 meter pool if it's at a rec center.

That's over halfway for most races. Some races, they're limited by the available lanes in the pool if they're using one.
Even if you're doing a full 700-750 meters or even 800 meters...certainly 11 weeks will be enough to get through it. I imagine you'd get through it today if you wanted. If it's open water, it's a bit of a different story. But only in that it's a state of mind/mental thing that makes it different.

I was never a competitive swimmer in school or as a kid. Yeah, I had "Boy Scout" instruction....usually from a kid who swam swim team. I took swimming in college for a PE class once. The TA/instructors were all on the swim team at a Big 10 school (one was even a middle-of-the-pack Olympian swimmer from overseas). Probably the only trustworthy technique instruction I ever had. That was many years ago.

I've been a decent swimmer. Never afraid of the water. With not-terrible technique.

Started spending time in the pool regularly this winter. A couple months ago, after a thread on flip turns...I committed to being able to do them. It took about 3 weeks before I could do them fairly well with 'some' consistency. After about 6 weeks I can do them fairly on command and really only not do them when I "cheat" and score a few seconds of rest.

Watch videos. For me, it was a process. Watch a video one day. Swim the next. Watch video again or another video....swim the next. Trying to make the things happen they talked about in the video. Rarely did I feel like I was having any immediate success. But, I could tell there was cumulative improvement in the matter of weeks.
2015-05-28 12:43 PM
in reply to: 0


3

Subject: RE: Newb Q: Swimming
Thanks for the advice. I will look up the total immersion videos and my rec center has adult lessons starting in June. I figure to do that for a months and see if I have improved.

I did not mean to be misleading, but last night I swam 16 lengths with breaks in between. I have a long way to go to swim 400m uninterupted. The tri i am looking at is in open water. I am in Detroit area.

Edited by SpartanJD01 2015-05-28 12:45 PM
2015-05-28 12:59 PM
in reply to: 0


98
252525
, Idaho
Subject: RE: Newb Q: Swimming
It is completely realistic to be able to handle a sprint tri swim swimming 3x week for 11 weeks.

Getting a coach would be great if you're able to. If not, there are tons of books and online materials on swimming online. Lots of videos on youtube, tons of threads on forums, etc. Here are a couple of ideas:

- Focus on body position first. Lots of videos/resources online to show you how to get your body in the right position. This is first and foremost. I swim lots with a pull buoy and mono snorkel for a few hundred yards a time or two a week to help me focus on body position.
- Second, focus on technique. Again, a few hundred yards a week with a pull buoy can help you to focus just on your stroke.
- Not to be forgotten is swim fitness. You need the right body position and technique, but I've seen lots of people in triathlon handle the swim leg really well with horrible technique/mechanics. Make your 3 sessions a week worth it. Work at it. Swim hard and fast at times...build your swim fitness.
- You should be able to reasonably build to swim workouts of 1000-1500 yards each day. Mix it up. Don't just do long steady, slow, swims. And don't just do 50s.
- Focus on freestyle, but make sure you can do breaststroke and sidestroke as a backup. The only problem with relying on breaststroke is whip kicks have injured others in triathlons before. So if you use it, make sure no one is near. I've seen others swim the whole swim portion with sidestroke before. Once every couple of weeks, I'll swim 1000 yards as my warm up. I don't stop for anything. If my goggles get water in them, I deal with is as I'm floating or side stroking. If I feel like crap...I slow down. In essence, I want to make sure that I can go the distance without stopping and work all of my issues out on the way. It gives me confidence.
- Get out in the open water and swim a few times...you'll know you're not going to drown.

Best of luck!!!

Here are some of the resources I keep going back to (there are lots of others):

1. http://www.amazon.com/Swim-Speed-Secrets-Swimmers-Triathletes/dp/19...
2. http://joelfilliol.blogspot.com/2012/01/most-popular-post-on-this-b...
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fi5R65Isxw
4. http://www.swimsmooth.com/

Edited by d.wilk 2015-05-28 1:08 PM
2015-05-28 1:39 PM
in reply to: 0


1660
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Subject: RE: Newb Q: Swimming

Yes, that will be no problem to swim that distance with proper training.

 

Your goal will be to finish, not race the swim, so all you need to do is learn a swim style that expends minimal energy for forward propulsion which means you have to learn to float effortlessly face-down flat in the water. 

 

Once you can do that horizontal float with minimal kicking, you can add in the swim strokes and a small breath, and you'll make the distance very quickly. The key is to NOT fight the water at this stage - you want everything to feel easy - if you're gasping for air, or kicking a lot, or flailing your arms/torso, you're doing something wrong.

 


The Total Immersion book has good float drills (you can look 'em up on the web as well) that will allow you to readily swim (slowly) for a long time once you get them down.  

 

Practice as much as you can , get in the pool as often as possible, preferably over 3x/wk. You won't be pushing yourself aerobically or muscularly on these workouts anyway so you can do unlimited amounts of them without fatiguing yourself.

 

Getting faster is a whole nother story and is a LOT harder....



Edited by yazmaster 2015-05-28 1:40 PM


2015-05-28 3:08 PM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Newb Q: Swimming

Originally posted by SpartanJD01 ...So, I went to my rec league pool last night and was amazed how difficult it was. I think I did 16-20 lengths. I plan to swim 3 times a week for a few weeks and assess where I am. My question is whether it is possible to build up to a half mile from basically scratch in 11 weeks? My only concern is drowning. I don't care about time....

I got a 4 month Gym Membership in January and started training for a Half Ironman.  I hadn't done any swimming to speak of for about 10 years prior to that and even then had never been on a swim team or done any type of swim training.

My goals when I started were a little different than your.  I wasn't worried about drowning.  I am comfortable in the water having spent many hours in community pools on hot summer days growing up and time swimming in the open water of rivers, lakes, and the ocean when we were were on vacation and even complete the BSA mile swim three times as Scout camps.  I never really was competent in any of proper stokes other than the elementary back stroke and side stroke but I could do breast stroke or front crawl if I kept my head above water.   My goal was more than to just not drown, I wanted to learn to swim proper freestyle and to be an efficient open water swimmer triathlon swimmer.

My first time in the pool didn't go as well as yours.  I could only go about 30 feet of freestyle before I would panic for air and have to stop to catch my breath before trying again.  After than I dedicated two week of pool time to doing breathing drill.  Once I was able to make some headway on the breathing everything else came quickly.  My approach was very similar to jhaack39.  I would watch videos one day and then swim the next.  I would really pay attention to what I was doing in the water and search for drill to help me in the areas that I was struggling the most (i.e. body rotation, parts of the arm stroke, kicking, etc.).  By 10 weeks I had improved my 30 feet of continuous freestyle to 1200 yards and my speed from 4:00/100 yards to 1:55/ 100 yards.  On race day at 16 weeks I completed the 1.2 mile swim at a 1:42 min/100 yard pace achieving my goal of swimming freestyle the whole distance and beating my goal for time by 3 minutes.    

So...don't be discouraged your first day in the pool.  Stick with it.  I made huge improvements with 3 day a week in the water.  

2015-05-28 4:03 PM
in reply to: SpartanJD01


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Subject: RE: Newb Q: Swimming
If you stick to three times a week, you should be fine. But don't get discouraged. . . the first few weeks may suck and you may freak out b/c you're not making a lot of progress. It takes some time to get a feel for swimming and it will most likely be pretty ugly at first. The key is keep at it.
2015-05-28 4:19 PM
in reply to: ziggie204

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Newb Q: Swimming

Yes!  You can do this.

Here's some good info: http://ruthkazez.com/swimming.html   She has a plan for 0 to 700 and 0 to 1650 (a mile).

Any in-person lessons would be great, but don't wait to get started on the consistency of swimming regularly.   Just keep at it.  When you have an opportunity for feedback take it, and work it into your next session.

One newbie advice thing:  It's okay to take breaks.  I stop after every 100 when I am just getting back into swimming to get myself together and have a little reset.  I gradually grow the sets, but I never just swim straight through.  I find my swim doesn't degrade as quickly with small breaks, like 10-20 seconds.   You will not miss them on open water day.   But notice when you stop - are you wildly out of breath? If so, you are swimming too hard.  Swimming takes effort, but you will not be able to keep going at a pace when you feel gassed.  Slow it down.  It's okay, you won't sink. 

Good luck!

2015-05-29 7:49 AM
in reply to: SpartanJD01


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Subject: RE: Newb Q: Swimming
In the OP you mention breast stroke. I would focus on freestyle. Proper breast stoke is harder to learn, less efficient and uses more energy. It is somewhat frowned upon in races because there is the possibility of kicking other participants.

As far a freestyle. Are you getting out of breath or arm are sore? If it is arms sore you will build that strength. If you are out of breath slow down and have someone evaluate your breathing technique.
2015-05-29 8:29 AM
in reply to: SpartanJD01

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Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: Newb Q: Swimming

Some good advice already, but to add my thoughts:

- If you aren't able to work with a coach, then try to get some feedback from another accomplished swimmer.  There's often a big gap between what we see in our mind's eye and what we're actually doing.  Some objective feedback, though tough to hear sometimes, can be extremely useful.  When I was first starting to train for triathlons, I had a friend who was a former collegiate swimmer and masters all-American who would watch me for a few minutes once a month or so and offer feedback and suggestions.

- It takes time to ingrain muscle memory for a good swim stroke.   Work on establishing a smooth, consistent stroke before worrying about pace.  As the saying goes:  "Slow is smooth; smooth is fast:.

- Swimming technique is a perishable skill.  Frequency is the key to reinforce technique,  Most folks need to be swimming at least three times a week to improve.

Good luck,

 

Mark 



2015-05-29 9:38 AM
in reply to: RedCorvette


3

Subject: RE: Newb Q: Swimming
Thanks for all of the advice and encouragement. I will incorporate it and check-in in a couple of weeks. Thanks
2015-05-30 1:06 PM
in reply to: SpartanJD01

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Subject: RE: Newb Q: Swimming
Originally posted by SpartanJD01

Hello All. First time posting. I have been running the past 2 years and finished a half marathon this past weekend. I am big (6'3", 265#) and slow (12:00/mile). But I finished without walking and very pleased with my progress (lost 70 lbs over past 2 years, some of it for a second time).

I plan to run another half marathon in October and had been thinking of running a Sprint Triathlon in August as a way to vary my routine and, eventually, transition from so many miles running. So, I went to my rec league pool last night and was amazed how difficult it was. I think I did 16-20 lengths.

I plan to swim 3 times a week for a few weeks and assess where I am. My question is whether it is possible to build up to a half mile from basically scratch in 11 weeks? My only concern is drowning. I don't care about time. I don't care if I alternate to breaststroke or sidestroke occasionally. I would just like to finish. Is this realistically possible? If possible, any advised training? My only thought was to build up like the C25K plan, building up to the distance/time, then combining the lengths to reduce rest periods.


It's very possible witha good swim coach who can work with you on balance in teh water. ONce you find your balance you can swim as long as you like. streamlining will make you faster and more efficient, and that's a matter of learning body positions in the water. Once you'r ebalanced and streamlined, adding propulsive components for speed might be the next step.

I've taken folks from no swimming to 1/2 mile in just a few weeks, and taken really bad swimmers (ie ingrained ppor form) to an effortless half mile after 1 or 2 lessons.

Humans are really bad at swimming...so learning what it takes to be more like a fish (streamlined, effortless), takes knowledgeable input and the results can be pretty amazing.
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