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2015-06-11 8:39 AM

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Subject: What would BT do? (bike question)
After a 4-year break, I'm back into Triathlons, and enjoying every minute of the training. However, I have noticed that since I have ridden only my mountain bike (Specialized Hardrock) for the past 4-5 years, it's taking some time getting used to my road bike. My road bike (a Cannondale) is a double and right now, doesn't climb hills as well as my mountain bike (a triple). I climb really well on my mountain bike because of that lower gear.

The triathlon I am doing in August has a hilly bike course, which I did with my mountain bike 7 years ago. I came off the bike very fresh then with a fairly good time (for me) on a mountain bike.

Obviously, when riding my mountain bike, I sacrifice speed (avg 13-14 on my mountain bike on the flats; 16-17 on the road bike), but I feel I more than make up for it by being able to climb hills faster and recover quicker from them. I know I also need to keep riding my road bike and just HTFU and do hills on it so I can climb better on it.

For the short term, though, for the race, which would you ride and why?


2015-06-11 8:57 AM
in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)

What kind of gearing is on the road bike and how hard are the hills? I'd really be looking at using the road bike.

2015-06-11 8:57 AM
in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)
I'd ride the road bike and go ride hills to get your climbing legs in shape.

Got a bike trainer? If so, buy this: http://www.thesufferfest.com/training-video/angels/
2015-06-11 8:59 AM
in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)
You didn't give a date but if the tri is in August, to me there is no reason why you would not ride your road bike. First, ride every training session on your road bike. Second, ride hills often. Third, ride some more hills. Finally, find some hills & climb them at "as fast as possible" pace.
2015-06-11 9:01 AM
in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)
Road bike.
Perhaps consider a different cassette on your road bike with a lower climbing gear?
2015-06-11 9:03 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)
I am not sure of the gearing on the road bike (I have not taken the time to look at that closely at it). I know it's a 12-speed with shifters on the downtube.

I do plan to do all my training rides on the road bike to continue to get used to it, and incorporate hills into my rides as much as possible (we do have a few nice hills for me to work on), so over time, I will get better at climbing hills. I was just thinking short term for the race in August.

Thank you for the responses.


2015-06-11 9:05 AM
in reply to: RockTractor

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)
Originally posted by RockTractor

Road bike.
Perhaps consider a different cassette on your road bike with a lower climbing gear?


I have thought about this, but am not sure where to start to find a suitable cassette - any recommendations?
2015-06-11 9:17 AM
in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)

Originally posted by robertChiefsFan
Originally posted by RockTractor Road bike. Perhaps consider a different cassette on your road bike with a lower climbing gear?
I have thought about this, but am not sure where to start to find a suitable cassette - any recommendations?

Well, if all else fails you could try your local bike shop.

2015-06-11 9:24 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by robertChiefsFan
Originally posted by RockTractor Road bike. Perhaps consider a different cassette on your road bike with a lower climbing gear?
I have thought about this, but am not sure where to start to find a suitable cassette - any recommendations?

Well, if all else fails you could try your local bike shop.




Good point - it's probably about time I paid them a visit anyway - I need some new tubes and tires
2015-06-11 9:35 AM
in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)

Originally posted by robertChiefsFan I am not sure of the gearing on the road bike (I have not taken the time to look at that closely at it). I know it's a 12-speed with shifters on the downtube. I do plan to do all my training rides on the road bike to continue to get used to it, and incorporate hills into my rides as much as possible (we do have a few nice hills for me to work on), so over time, I will get better at climbing hills. I was just thinking short term for the race in August. Thank you for the responses.
6 speed cassette? I didn't know they still existed!  Perhaps a newer bike is in order, or at least a new rear derailleur, shifter, rear hub/wheel so you can run a 10 spd cassette (20 spd total) ang get better gearing (e.g. 11-28).

2015-06-11 9:46 AM
in reply to: 0


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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)
We need more info. You said it is a 12 speed down tube so that puts it in the mid 80's to early 90's. Upfront you could have 52/42 or a 52/39. In back it is probably has a largest cog of 25 or 28. It is more than likely a freewheel which you could find a replacement. But you could also have something like a helicomatic which is obsolete and it is hard just to find the tool to remove. Or you could have an old Uniglide 6 speed cassette you would be looking at buying NOS and probably $100 I doubt that they are going to be larger than the 28. I have not dealt with the old uniglide / hyperglide but I don't think the 6 speed was the same as 7 and 8 speeds which you can still buy new.

Assuming it is a freewheel you can find replacements. More than likely you would be able to use a 6 or 7 speed freewheel. Shimano makes a "mega range" freewheel in both the 6 and 7 speed. It has a bail out sprocket of 34 teeth. The jump is pretty big it goes from 24 to 34 although you might be able to cross chain and run the 52-34 combination (or it might rub). You should be able to find freewheel for $15 to $20. You are also going to need a new chain $10. Do you have bike tools? You are looking at a chain whip and a the socket to remove the freewheel (there are 3 or 4 variation they are all about $8 it would be specific to the one you are removing), you do not need it to put the new one on. A bench vice can be helpful. The problem you will probably run into is the current deraileur is not got to be able to get to the 34. I would put a mtb deraileur on it. If you want to go cheap a Tourney would be less that $20 Alivio $30ish.

Do you have a bike co-op near by? Assuming you don't have the tools or the knowledge I would seek them out. I assume you could by a used RD for less than $5 (I would buy a new freewheel and chain) they would also have the tools you could use.

another option is to replace the rear wheel with a modern cassette system. You may still run into the RD issue. I am assuming that the bike is steel. The spacing would have been 126mm a new wheel is 130mm. A steel frame you can spread, it is a early AL or carbon bike this will not be recommended. This actually might be the easiest option and not expensive too expensive. A 8 speed cassette with the a 32 or 34 should be less than $20. A basic rear wheel $40-$50. If you go this option you want to determing if you have 700c or 27inch wheel size.

edit: you said: cannodale that probably means AL which eliminates spreading the frame. The good news is that it also probably eliminates the helicomatic.

Edited by Sidney Porter 2015-06-11 9:49 AM


2015-06-11 9:51 AM
in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)

I started training in January on my mountain bike.  I was living in the Texas Hill country and yes I was riding some very hilly routes.  

I was averaging 14.8 MPH on these training rides.  Going up hills was a killer.  I often would only get halfway up before I ran out of momentum and be forced to dismount and run the bike up the hill.  Coming down the hills was great on the mountain bike though.  I would tuck and hold and descend at speeds over 30 MPH.  So...for climbing hills a mountain bike is not a good option due to the extra weight and increased rolling resistance, but coming down hills the extra weight is a plus and the wider tires and steering made it handle well at top speed.

In race planning I looked at past finishing times and knew to be Age Group Competitive I needed to have a 3 hour bike split for 56 miles.  Running is my strength.  As a new triathlete I didn't have a chance of beating seasoned triathletes in the swim or on the bike, but I wanted to be close enough that I had a chance of running down some of the guys that do well in the swim and on the bike but struggle on the run.  

At 14.8 MPH I had no chance of catching any of the fast swimmers and cyclists so I bought a used TT bike.  The TT bike was much easier to climb hills with.  I never had to dismount the TT bike.  Even on the 1.4 mile long hill on my Saturday morning route that climbed 370 feet (6% grade over the 1.4 miles, but the first 0.625 miles is an 8% grade).  

On the mountain bike I would climb hills at 7.5 MPH.  On the TT bike I would climb hills at about 12.5 MPH.  I would be about the same speed on both bikes coming down the hills, but the mountain bike felt safer since it breaked better with the wider tired and was easier to steer.  Coming off the TT bike I would feel fresher than I would off the Mountain bike because the aero position would allow me to save energy.

The choice for me was simple.  I went with my TT bike.  I am surprised that anyone would prefer to climb hills with a mountain bike over road bike.  I am also surprised that anyone would run better off a mountain bike than a street bike.  You may just need to spend more time on the street bike to get used to it or you may have a fit on the street bike that is limiting what you can do.  

Note:  My TT bike is a "double" Cannondale Slice with 650c wheels.  My Mountain bike is a Schwinn "triple" with 26" wheels (size?).  The smaller wheels on the TT bike make hill climbing easier than it would be on 700c wheels.  The extra gears on the Mountain bike aren't enough to make it up the long steep hills. 

I am not sure what Distance you are doing in August, but here are some times to consider.

In a Sprint Trr with a 12.5 mile ride and 3.1 mile run you add add over 10 minutes to you bike time if you drop from 16-17 mph to 13-14 MPH.  Unless you can drop a 30 minute 5k run time to under 20 minutes by switching to a mountain bike your will have a faster finish time on the street bike

if you are doing an Olympic Triathlon the Mountain bike adds 20 minutes so again unless you can improve from a 60 minute 10K run to a 40 minute 10K then you are better overall on the street bike.

For a half iron distance you add 52 minutes to you bike time so unless the difference in you run time off the mountain bike is significant enough to take a 2-1/2 13.1 mile run down to a 1 hr 38 mins, your mountain bike won't improve your race time.

And for the full iron distance your mountain bike adds 90 minutes to you bike leg so unless you fresher legs can improve a 5 hour marathon time to a 3-1/2 hour marathon time, again the mountain bike isn't going to improve your over all time.

 

 

2015-06-11 11:08 AM
in reply to: 0

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Elite
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Spokane, WA
Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)

Your race isn't until August. You can make dramatic improvements on the hills in that amount of time if you're willing to work. You've got hills to work on, so get out there and do hill repeats. My favorite story with those is a long hill I couldn't make all the way up once, within a short time I was doing it 20 times in one session. 

I personally wouldn't mess with changing gearing until you've worked more on it. To say that bike is incapable of climbing as setup is incorrect  That's what people rode back then.  Just make sure everything's lubed up and working and ride the heck out of it. Have fun. 

ETA: I'm a fan of those older bikes. Cannondales are nice, gotta pic?



Edited by zed707 2015-06-11 11:33 AM
2015-06-11 12:28 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)

Originally posted by Sidney Porter We need more info. You said it is a 12 speed down tube so that puts it in the mid 80's to early 90's. Upfront you could have 52/42 or a 52/39. In back it is probably has a largest cog of 25 or 28. It is more than likely a freewheel which you could find a replacement. But you could also have something like a helicomatic which is obsolete and it is hard just to find the tool to remove. Or you could have an old Uniglide 6 speed cassette you would be looking at buying NOS and probably $100 I doubt that they are going to be larger than the 28. I have not dealt with the old uniglide / hyperglide but I don't think the 6 speed was the same as 7 and 8 speeds which you can still buy new. Assuming it is a freewheel you can find replacements. More than likely you would be able to use a 6 or 7 speed freewheel. Shimano makes a "mega range" freewheel in both the 6 and 7 speed. It has a bail out sprocket of 34 teeth. The jump is pretty big it goes from 24 to 34 although you might be able to cross chain and run the 52-34 combination (or it might rub). You should be able to find freewheel for $15 to $20. You are also going to need a new chain $10. Do you have bike tools? You are looking at a chain whip and a the socket to remove the freewheel (there are 3 or 4 variation they are all about $8 it would be specific to the one you are removing), you do not need it to put the new one on. A bench vice can be helpful. The problem you will probably run into is the current deraileur is not got to be able to get to the 34. I would put a mtb deraileur on it. If you want to go cheap a Tourney would be less that $20 Alivio $30ish. Do you have a bike co-op near by? Assuming you don't have the tools or the knowledge I would seek them out. I assume you could by a used RD for less than $5 (I would buy a new freewheel and chain) they would also have the tools you could use. another option is to replace the rear wheel with a modern cassette system. You may still run into the RD issue. I am assuming that the bike is steel. The spacing would have been 126mm a new wheel is 130mm. A steel frame you can spread, it is a early AL or carbon bike this will not be recommended. This actually might be the easiest option and not expensive too expensive. A 8 speed cassette with the a 32 or 34 should be less than $20. A basic rear wheel $40-$50. If you go this option you want to determing if you have 700c or 27inch wheel size. edit: you said: cannodale that probably means AL which eliminates spreading the frame. The good news is that it also probably eliminates the helicomatic.

 

This^^^

I'm pretty sure I had this bike too. A Cannondale Criterium. In fact, I just retired it this past winter. It as a late 80s Alumnium bike, but I did manage to get a 9 speed wheel with a cassette in there instead of the 6 speed freewheel. Actually I went from 6 speed freewheel to 8 speed cassette, then 9 speed cassette. The first few times I had to remove my wheel it was very tight, but the chainstays did spread over time. YMMV

Mine also came with 42/52 (or 53) Biopace chainrings. You could swap that for something a little easier.

 

Mike bike is here. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/Albums/Album/1512 I think there is a picture of the cassette.



Edited by jeng 2015-06-11 12:35 PM
2015-06-11 12:42 PM
in reply to: jeng

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)
Thanks again for all the responses. I do know that I simply need to get out and ride more, which I plan on doing. I'll try to get some pics of my Cannondale, though she isn't much to look at. She rides real well and fits me great, I've just always had a hard time climbing hills with her. I probably need to spend more time in the saddle, including some hill repeats, which is on my my training list.
2015-06-13 8:22 AM
in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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Subject: RE: What would BT do? (bike question)
Go to Shawnee Mission Park, do as many laps as you can. Repeat....Seriously training on that 4.5 loop has helped me tremendously but you really need to just ride more. Mechanical improvements will help for sure but you've got the rest of June and all of July to work on the bike engine.


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