Would you forego wetsuit in sprint
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2015-06-14 7:08 PM |
538 Brooklyn, New York | Subject: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint My love/hate relationship with the wetsuit continues. Have had a great winter into spring of training with no issues, and today I get my first OWS of the season and boom hammie cramps again. This was the fiesty issue last year. I am working to get ever faster in sprints, 500-1000m swim varied events. How many would just go sans wetsuit and stick with tri suit instead? I assure you, there are no issues that cause this hamstring cramping other than the wetsuit. |
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2015-06-14 7:30 PM in reply to: TJHammer |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Pretty much any swim longer than 200m if legal. How much open water practice in the wetsuit including removal have you done? Shane |
2015-06-14 8:22 PM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Originally posted by TJHammerMy love/hate relationship with the wetsuit continues. Have had a great winter into spring of training with no issues, and today I get my first OWS of the season and boom hammie cramps again. This was the fiesty issue last year. I am working to get ever faster in sprints, 500-1000m swim varied events. How many would just go sans wetsuit and stick with tri suit instead? I assure you, there are no issues that cause this hamstring cramping other than the wetsuit. How is the wetsuit causing a hamstring cramp? Is it on removal (post isn't clear) I've had calf issues taking off suit but never hamstring Edited by ChrisM 2015-06-14 8:23 PM |
2015-06-14 9:12 PM in reply to: TJHammer |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint no. no i wouldn't. |
2015-06-14 10:05 PM in reply to: #5122478 |
Member 622 Franklin, TN | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint For me, I'd probably opt for my Roka sim shorts if it's less than 500-600 meters. I'm faster in the Roka than without..probably not quite as fast as a full wetsuit but it doesn't take any time to pull them off in T1. |
2015-06-14 10:39 PM in reply to: 0 |
471 | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint My wetsuit is down by my waist before I even hit T1, I reckon 10 seconds and it's completely off, so I'd always opt to wear one. Edited by zedzded 2015-06-14 10:40 PM |
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2015-06-15 7:05 AM in reply to: TJHammer |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint In a short sprint race 400-450 yards, I will usually go without a wetsuit. Anything longer I use the wetsuit. Exceptions to this is from temperature; if its cold I'll use the wetsuit no matter the distance. If its hot and the water temp is right under that 78° limit I may not wear it on a longer swim. |
2015-06-15 9:22 AM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 276 | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint 90-95% of the folks on here are going to say they'll still wear one, cramping or not. This issue reminds of a post a week or two back asking if they should ride their roadie in an IM because their tri bike wasn't comfortable for that long of a ride. For a 500m-1000m swim, let's say you are gaining 1:30 or so on your swim by wearing the wetsuit. Are you losing that time back on the bike and/or run worrying or actively alleviating cramped legs? If so then the suit is hampering you and you shouldn't wear it until you can figure out what the cramping is from and how to get around it. If the cramps aren't really effecting your bike and run performance then wear the suit and gut it out. If you aren't in the race to try and podium or PR, then do whatever makes race day the most enjoyable. Cramps to me are very unenjoyable, and I have zero issues swimming without a wetsuit, so I'd probably skip it. What you do is, of course, entirely up to you. Edited by CycloneVM 2015-06-15 9:23 AM |
2015-06-15 10:20 AM in reply to: CycloneVM |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint your wetsuit isn't causing cramping |
2015-06-15 1:37 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Originally posted by dmiller5 your wetsuit isn't causing cramping Unless he's unconsciously tensing up muscles when he wears the wetsuit, which then causes the cramping. If that's the case, more time swimming in the wetsuit will alleviate them, because he'll either learn to relax, or he'll gain enough fitness that he doesn't cramp anymore despite the cramping. Either way, my answer to his question of whether I'd forgo the wetsuit in a sprint is no, assuming the swim is at least 200m.
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2015-06-15 1:42 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by dmiller5 your wetsuit isn't causing cramping Unless he's unconsciously tensing up muscles when he wears the wetsuit, which then causes the cramping. If that's the case, more time swimming in the wetsuit will alleviate them, because he'll either learn to relax, or he'll gain enough fitness that he doesn't cramp anymore despite the cramping. Either way, my answer to his question of whether I'd forgo the wetsuit in a sprint is no, assuming the swim is at least 200m.
Just curious,. since I see you and Shane use it when this topic comes up, where does the 200M mark come from? What's the formula there? |
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2015-06-15 1:59 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by dmiller5 your wetsuit isn't causing cramping Unless he's unconsciously tensing up muscles when he wears the wetsuit, which then causes the cramping. If that's the case, more time swimming in the wetsuit will alleviate them, because he'll either learn to relax, or he'll gain enough fitness that he doesn't cramp anymore despite the cramping. Either way, my answer to his question of whether I'd forgo the wetsuit in a sprint is no, assuming the swim is at least 200m.
Just curious,. since I see you and Shane use it when this topic comes up, where does the 200M mark come from? What's the formula there? Removing a wetsuit should cost no more than 10 seconds in T1, or 20 seconds if you're really slow. The average triathlete swims about 10 seconds faster per 100 with a wetsuit than without. At 200m, the time "invested" is 10-20 seconds, and the average "return" on that "investment" is 20 seconds, so that's the tipping point (Or, to continue the business analogy, the "Break Even Point")
edited for clarification.
Edited by TriMyBest 2015-06-15 2:03 PM |
2015-06-15 2:04 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint I'm still curious to know how the wetsuit is causing the cramping, and on what basis the OP has excluded every other cause. I'm just a typical age grouper, but I've never heard of a wetsuit causing a cramp in 10+ years of racing.... |
2015-06-15 2:04 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Gotcha. I was wondering about the avg. gain from a wetsuit. That's a diminishing curve as swim ability goes up though, yeah? |
2015-06-16 7:14 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Originally posted by Left Brain Gotcha. I was wondering about the avg. gain from a wetsuit. That's a diminishing curve as swim ability goes up though, yeah? I figured out that I am about 4 second/100 yards faster with the wetsuit. I used to be a very good swimmer and have good form. I see the wetsuit helps people with bad form much more than those with good form. Just personal observation from different people I know, I have not analyzed their times with and without. |
2015-06-16 7:47 AM in reply to: #5122478 |
Extreme Veteran 3020 | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint I don't wear wetsuits for sprints, so yea, I'd ditch it. |
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2015-06-16 7:49 AM in reply to: jarvy01 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint If you aren't wearing a wetsuit, you're giving away time. It takes me 5 seconds to take off my wetsuit. I step on the legs while I put on my helmet. Pro tip, cut the bottom 3-4 inches of your wetsuit legs off. |
2015-06-16 8:34 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by Left Brain I figured out that I am about 4 second/100 yards faster with the wetsuit. I used to be a very good swimmer and have good form. I see the wetsuit helps people with bad form much more than those with good form. Just personal observation from different people I know, I have not analyzed their times with and without. Gotcha. I was wondering about the avg. gain from a wetsuit. That's a diminishing curve as swim ability goes up though, yeah? Yep, a wetsuit swim is a bad thing for a good swimmer....you're giving up time to almost everyone in a triathlon. |
2015-06-16 10:02 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Originally posted by Left Brain Gotcha. I was wondering about the avg. gain from a wetsuit. That's a diminishing curve as swim ability goes up though, yeah?
Agree. Swim Benefit - Added time in Transition = Decision. I usually wear one at 800 or more. Certainly never at the 200 mark. I've gone without in a 500 swim in 50 degree water. |
2015-06-16 10:20 AM in reply to: tjfry |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Originally posted by tjfry Originally posted by Left Brain Gotcha. I was wondering about the avg. gain from a wetsuit. That's a diminishing curve as swim ability goes up though, yeah?
Agree. Swim Benefit - Added time in Transition = Decision. I usually wear one at 800 or more. Certainly never at the 200 mark. I've gone without in a 500 swim in 50 degree water. Yes, the benefit is less for better swimmers. TJ has gills. He's so far above the average triathlete AGer in swimming ability that the comparison is academic.
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2015-06-16 12:45 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Veteran 276 | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Originally posted by ChrisM I'm still curious to know how the wetsuit is causing the cramping, and on what basis the OP has excluded every other cause. I'm just a typical age grouper, but I've never heard of a wetsuit causing a cramp in 10+ years of racing.... Well, if you do multiple (for example) 1000m OW swims with no wetsuit and no issues, then you get a wetsuit and all of a sudden your legs start cramping up at the 600m mark, then what else is there to blame? I agree it sounds really goofy, and I never would have believed it until it happened to me in my first HIM last year. Even then I didn't believe it - I figure the cold water temps were to blame - but when I started our local OWS series this year in perfectly good temperatures I still got minor cramps in the same places. I know for a fact that I can't wear swim fins because they will cause me to cramp. My foot just doesn't point - period. No amount of stretching or strengthening has ever fixed that fact, not in 25+ years of swimming (both competitive and non). The fin forces one's toes to be pointed, and my body won't have any of it. I'll admit a wetsuit doesn't force a body part in any direction, but if your hips are now sitting hit in the water because of the suit then your body may compensate by doing something else with the legs. Pro-wetsuit people will just say that means you need more time with the wetsuit and you'll be fine, but you'd be forcing a change to your swim form that without a wetsuit wouldn't have been necessary. |
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2015-06-16 1:14 PM in reply to: CycloneVM |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Originally posted by CycloneVM Originally posted by ChrisM I'm still curious to know how the wetsuit is causing the cramping, and on what basis the OP has excluded every other cause. I'm just a typical age grouper, but I've never heard of a wetsuit causing a cramp in 10+ years of racing.... Well, if you do multiple (for example) 1000m OW swims with no wetsuit and no issues, then you get a wetsuit and all of a sudden your legs start cramping up at the 600m mark, then what else is there to blame? I agree it sounds really goofy, and I never would have believed it until it happened to me in my first HIM last year. Even then I didn't believe it - I figure the cold water temps were to blame - but when I started our local OWS series this year in perfectly good temperatures I still got minor cramps in the same places. I know for a fact that I can't wear swim fins because they will cause me to cramp. My foot just doesn't point - period. No amount of stretching or strengthening has ever fixed that fact, not in 25+ years of swimming (both competitive and non). The fin forces one's toes to be pointed, and my body won't have any of it. I'll admit a wetsuit doesn't force a body part in any direction, but if your hips are now sitting hit in the water because of the suit then your body may compensate by doing something else with the legs. Pro-wetsuit people will just say that means you need more time with the wetsuit and you'll be fine, but you'd be forcing a change to your swim form that without a wetsuit wouldn't have been necessary. If indeed the wetsuit is causing cramping, I would guess it' is too tight in some areas. possibly restricting some blood flow? Maybe try different brands of wet suit as they all fit a little different. |
2015-06-16 1:19 PM in reply to: CycloneVM |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Originally posted by CycloneVM Originally posted by ChrisM Well, if you do multiple (for example) 1000m OW swims with no wetsuit and no issues, then you get a wetsuit and all of a sudden your legs start cramping up at the 600m mark, then what else is there to blame?I'm still curious to know how the wetsuit is causing the cramping, and on what basis the OP has excluded every other cause. I'm just a typical age grouper, but I've never heard of a wetsuit causing a cramp in 10+ years of racing.... I agree it sounds really goofy, and I never would have believed it until it happened to me in my first HIM last year. Even then I didn't believe it - I figure the cold water temps were to blame - but when I started our local OWS series this year in perfectly good temperatures I still got minor cramps in the same places. Keep in mind that in order for the logic to work, everything else has to be eliminated. Or nothing at all had to have changed. For many, many people that is far from a given. Not realizing something else has changed doesn't mean nothing else did. Just don't have the experience to determine this all the time. Also, see this: Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by dmiller5 your wetsuit isn't causing cramping Unless he's unconsciously tensing up muscles when he wears the wetsuit, which then causes the cramping. If that's the case, more time swimming in the wetsuit will alleviate them, because he'll either learn to relax, or he'll gain enough fitness that he doesn't cramp anymore despite the cramping. Either way, my answer to his question of whether I'd forgo the wetsuit in a sprint is no, assuming the swim is at least 200m.
The key word being "unconsciously". In other words, without realizing it. |
2015-06-16 1:25 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint How does anyone tense up in a wetsuit? I think I could fall asleep in the water wearing one. |
2015-06-16 1:34 PM in reply to: CycloneVM |
Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint Originally posted by CycloneVM Originally posted by ChrisM Well, if you do multiple (for example) 1000m OW swims with no wetsuit and no issues, then you get a wetsuit and all of a sudden your legs start cramping up at the 600m mark, then what else is there to blame? I agree it sounds really goofy, and I never would have believed it until it happened to me in my first HIM last year. Even then I didn't believe it - I figure the cold water temps were to blame - but when I started our local OWS series this year in perfectly good temperatures I still got minor cramps in the same places. I know for a fact that I can't wear swim fins because they will cause me to cramp. My foot just doesn't point - period. No amount of stretching or strengthening has ever fixed that fact, not in 25+ years of swimming (both competitive and non). The fin forces one's toes to be pointed, and my body won't have any of it. I'll admit a wetsuit doesn't force a body part in any direction, but if your hips are now sitting hit in the water because of the suit then your body may compensate by doing something else with the legs. Pro-wetsuit people will just say that means you need more time with the wetsuit and you'll be fine, but you'd be forcing a change to your swim form that without a wetsuit wouldn't have been necessary. I'm still curious to know how the wetsuit is causing the cramping, and on what basis the OP has excluded every other cause. I'm just a typical age grouper, but I've never heard of a wetsuit causing a cramp in 10+ years of racing.... Still confused, as you are not the OP. And still not buying that it is the wetsuit, but maybe it is, or it is I suppose if that's what you believe. If anyone wants to swim bareback in a race I am in, I am all for it (especially if in my AG ) Do you ever swim in the pool with a pull buoy? That's a similar body position to a wetsuit (raising the hips), under your theory you should cramp there as well. |
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