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2015-06-29 8:16 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by TJHammerWore the wetsuit, light swim warm up in wetsuit. Within first 100 yards, it got very bunchy and crowded - took on a good amount of water and swallowed, coughed, a bunch of times, heart rate spiked, wetsuit felt even tighter, breathing rate rose, breast stroke to recover, lost at least a minute in that time. T1 took about 40 seconds too long. Everything else I did in that race was up to current level and progression expectation. I know this wetsuit has got to be too tight, I still hate the wetsuit experience, I appreciated the wetsuit in the recovery to calm my HR down. I prob could've placed top 12 overall and finished 4th AG. The swim/wetsuit/T1 the culprit. UGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Woulda, shoulda, coulda...You need to train in it to race in it.


Oh I know, I'm not the monday morning quarterback type trust me, I'm an executer, but the 2 factors that are an issue here are the fit of the westuit (which consequentially is a $$$ issue as well) and it's impossible to simulate the triathlon start. I have worked on mechanics in the pool, rhythmic sighting and alternate breathing. To success, I've improved swim times and efficiency as I managed to decrease my pool times while reducing stroke rates,which meant I got a little faster with less effort. I came out of the pool training feeling good. But unlike the bike and run, you can't just get in the water and do your thing in a tri. I also do open water swim training in Rockaway/Breezy Pt New York, which happens to be a constantly windy wavy area as well. So the challenge and difficulty of handling water doesn't befuddle me, it's the wetsuit and tri start

I forget where to find that silly tri swim training video, but I basically need to hire a few people to kayak next to me beating the crap outta me in the ocean


2015-06-29 9:06 AM
in reply to: TJHammer

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Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint

Originally posted by TJHammer
Originally posted by TriMyBest
Originally posted by TJHammerWore the wetsuit, light swim warm up in wetsuit. Within first 100 yards, it got very bunchy and crowded - took on a good amount of water and swallowed, coughed, a bunch of times, heart rate spiked, wetsuit felt even tighter, breathing rate rose, breast stroke to recover, lost at least a minute in that time. T1 took about 40 seconds too long. Everything else I did in that race was up to current level and progression expectation. I know this wetsuit has got to be too tight, I still hate the wetsuit experience, I appreciated the wetsuit in the recovery to calm my HR down. I prob could've placed top 12 overall and finished 4th AG. The swim/wetsuit/T1 the culprit. UGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Woulda, shoulda, coulda...You need to train in it to race in it.
Oh I know, I'm not the monday morning quarterback type trust me, I'm an executer, but the 2 factors that are an issue here are the fit of the westuit (which consequentially is a $$$ issue as well) and it's impossible to simulate the triathlon start. I have worked on mechanics in the pool, rhythmic sighting and alternate breathing. To success, I've improved swim times and efficiency as I managed to decrease my pool times while reducing stroke rates,which meant I got a little faster with less effort. I came out of the pool training feeling good. But unlike the bike and run, you can't just get in the water and do your thing in a tri. I also do open water swim training in Rockaway/Breezy Pt New York, which happens to be a constantly windy wavy area as well. So the challenge and difficulty of handling water doesn't befuddle me, it's the wetsuit and tri start I forget where to find that silly tri swim training video, but I basically need to hire a few people to kayak next to me beating the crap outta me in the ocean

You've got the right idea.  It's a worthwhile exercise to get together with a group of people, then all go out of your way to bump off each other, swim over each other, grab feet, etc. while practicing starts and swimming open water.  Training smart combined with techniques like visualization can almost induce a feeling of deja vu on race day, making anxiety levels much lower.

 

2015-06-29 10:07 AM
in reply to: TJHammer


467
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Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint
There are a lot of folks with far more experience than I, and I believe them when they say the wet suit gives them a time advantage. BUT, only if you are willing/able to spend enough time in it to really get used to it and also invest the time and effort to get used to getting it off quickly.
Earlier this spring I did a sprint with a 1/2 mi ocean swim in FL, it was 80 degree + water and virtually no one wore a suit, including me. Fast forward to a sprint up here in WI two weeks ago with a 1/4 mi swim. I only fit in ONE OWS session with the wet suit. My 100 yrd pace was several seconds slower than the pace in FL two months ago, I was totally uncomfortable with my stroke, breathing etc. (during this same time, my avg pace in the pool has been steadily improving). Then, to add insult to injury, the left ankle of the wet suit got twisted up with the timing chip and cost me at least 2 1/2 minutes more to get off. Lesson learned for me is that IF I'm going to wear this wet suit in races, I will need to spend some serious time getting used to it, and getting fast at getting it off no matter what . . . otherwise I'll go without.
2015-06-29 10:59 AM
in reply to: MikeD1

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Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint

Originally posted by MikeD1 There are a lot of folks with far more experience than I, and I believe them when they say the wet suit gives them a time advantage. BUT, only if you are willing/able to spend enough time in it to really get used to it and also invest the time and effort to get used to getting it off quickly. Earlier this spring I did a sprint with a 1/2 mi ocean swim in FL, it was 80 degree + water and virtually no one wore a suit, including me. Fast forward to a sprint up here in WI two weeks ago with a 1/4 mi swim. I only fit in ONE OWS session with the wet suit. My 100 yrd pace was several seconds slower than the pace in FL two months ago, I was totally uncomfortable with my stroke, breathing etc. (during this same time, my avg pace in the pool has been steadily improving). Then, to add insult to injury, the left ankle of the wet suit got twisted up with the timing chip and cost me at least 2 1/2 minutes more to get off. Lesson learned for me is that IF I'm going to wear this wet suit in races, I will need to spend some serious time getting used to it, and getting fast at getting it off no matter what . . . otherwise I'll go without.

Don't ever bother comparing swim paces from race to race.  Distances aren't accurate enough to have accurate information.  It's possible you actually swam faster in the second race.

Every part of racing should be practiced, not just basic swimming, biking, and running.  Transition and race-specific condition training can save many minutes on race day, yet it's often overlooked.

 

2015-06-29 12:02 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint

Originally posted by MikeD1 There are a lot of folks with far more experience than I, and I believe them when they say the wet suit gives them a time advantage. BUT, only if you are willing/able to spend enough time in it to really get used to it and also invest the time and effort to get used to getting it off quickly. Earlier this spring I did a sprint with a 1/2 mi ocean swim in FL, it was 80 degree + water and virtually no one wore a suit, including me. Fast forward to a sprint up here in WI two weeks ago with a 1/4 mi swim. I only fit in ONE OWS session with the wet suit. My 100 yrd pace was several seconds slower than the pace in FL two months ago, I was totally uncomfortable with my stroke, breathing etc. (during this same time, my avg pace in the pool has been steadily improving). Then, to add insult to injury, the left ankle of the wet suit got twisted up with the timing chip and cost me at least 2 1/2 minutes more to get off. Lesson learned for me is that IF I'm going to wear this wet suit in races, I will need to spend some serious time getting used to it, and getting fast at getting it off no matter what . . . otherwise I'll go without.

These things have made getting out of a wetsuit easy as hell. 

1. Trim the legs up about 2 inches.  This clears your timing chip and makes the hole bigger for your foot to slip through.  My kid cuts 6 inches off of his at least (it's up to his mid calf) and also cut a couple inches off his arms.

2. wrap the timing chip in black electric tape a couple of times.  It will not interfere with the chip and make the whole device slippery and less prone to hanging up.

3.  Apply copious amounts of Body Glide/Pam/whatever to your arms, legs, neck, AND timing chip.....and here is the part almost everyone forgets about.  Apply the same lubricant liberally to the outside of your suits legs and arms.  Rubber sticks to rubber.....and everywhere you pull the suit over itself that is what you have.

Your suit should be at your waist when you hit T1.  Push your suit bottoms down as far as you can with one motion, put your helmet and glasses on as you step out of your suit.  By the time your suit is off you should be on your way.....maximum of 15 seconds added....actually, WAY maximum.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-06-29 12:03 PM
2015-06-29 8:48 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint




Edited by nfp105 2015-06-29 8:48 PM


2015-06-29 8:53 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by MikeD1 There are a lot of folks with far more experience than I, and I believe them when they say the wet suit gives them a time advantage. BUT, only if you are willing/able to spend enough time in it to really get used to it and also invest the time and effort to get used to getting it off quickly. Earlier this spring I did a sprint with a 1/2 mi ocean swim in FL, it was 80 degree + water and virtually no one wore a suit, including me. Fast forward to a sprint up here in WI two weeks ago with a 1/4 mi swim. I only fit in ONE OWS session with the wet suit. My 100 yrd pace was several seconds slower than the pace in FL two months ago, I was totally uncomfortable with my stroke, breathing etc. (during this same time, my avg pace in the pool has been steadily improving). Then, to add insult to injury, the left ankle of the wet suit got twisted up with the timing chip and cost me at least 2 1/2 minutes more to get off. Lesson learned for me is that IF I'm going to wear this wet suit in races, I will need to spend some serious time getting used to it, and getting fast at getting it off no matter what . . . otherwise I'll go without.

These things have made getting out of a wetsuit easy as hell. 

1. Trim the legs up about 2 inches.  This clears your timing chip and makes the hole bigger for your foot to slip through.  My kid cuts 6 inches off of his at least (it's up to his mid calf) and also cut a couple inches off his arms.

2. wrap the timing chip in black electric tape a couple of times.  It will not interfere with the chip and make the whole device slippery and less prone to hanging up.

3.  Apply copious amounts of Body Glide/Pam/whatever to your arms, legs, neck, AND timing chip.....and here is the part almost everyone forgets about.  Apply the same lubricant liberally to the outside of your suits legs and arms.  Rubber sticks to rubber.....and everywhere you pull the suit over itself that is what you have.

Your suit should be at your waist when you hit T1.  Push your suit bottoms down as far as you can with one motion, put your helmet and glasses on as you step out of your suit.  By the time your suit is off you should be on your way.....maximum of 15 seconds added....actually, WAY maximum.




This advice has been posted before and REALLY DOES work. I did all those, except the electrical tape bit, last race I did because of seeing it on here. It saved me over 1 minute in T1 from 2014 and gave me the fast T1 by 5 seconds out of 1500 competitors.
2015-06-30 8:44 AM
in reply to: 0

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538
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Brooklyn, New York
Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint
Hit the ocean yesterday (me and the surfers only ones out there) - granted they weren't Hawaii waves, but it was rip current warning and advisable not to swim. My point? Well, trimmed suit was a nice touch, few seconds faster getting out of wetsuit. I did 2x600m. Each set was an ankle deep start, rush out past breakers, left turn, go hard for 250, turn back to where i started (watch in swim cap with distance alerts). Water temp was about 64 degrees. I did it hard enough, waves and swells moving me alot, tough to sight and the return was semi into waves coming because wind was changing the current. Managed total time average of 2.05/100m. I thought pretty good considering the elements.

I did not have that tight chest feeling and mental gasp for breath feeling. YES, there is a mental adjustment to the harder breathing while compressed in a suit (I still feel like it's a tad too tight when muscles get pumped), but I feel this went well (yes id like to be faster), but it's because I was able to swim in MY rhythm/pace etc. - I need a better plan when combined with hundred people in the tri starts

I'm still jealous of those who get out of a wetsuit in a minute or less - may have to add the PAM

Edited by TJHammer 2015-06-30 8:46 AM
2015-07-01 6:15 AM
in reply to: Left Brain


467
1001001001002525
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by MikeD1 There are a lot of folks with far more experience than I, and I believe them when they say the wet suit gives them a time advantage. BUT, only if you are willing/able to spend enough time in it to really get used to it and also invest the time and effort to get used to getting it off quickly. Earlier this spring I did a sprint with a 1/2 mi ocean swim in FL, it was 80 degree + water and virtually no one wore a suit, including me. Fast forward to a sprint up here in WI two weeks ago with a 1/4 mi swim. I only fit in ONE OWS session with the wet suit. My 100 yrd pace was several seconds slower than the pace in FL two months ago, I was totally uncomfortable with my stroke, breathing etc. (during this same time, my avg pace in the pool has been steadily improving). Then, to add insult to injury, the left ankle of the wet suit got twisted up with the timing chip and cost me at least 2 1/2 minutes more to get off. Lesson learned for me is that IF I'm going to wear this wet suit in races, I will need to spend some serious time getting used to it, and getting fast at getting it off no matter what . . . otherwise I'll go without.

These things have made getting out of a wetsuit easy as hell. 

1. Trim the legs up about 2 inches.  This clears your timing chip and makes the hole bigger for your foot to slip through.  My kid cuts 6 inches off of his at least (it's up to his mid calf) and also cut a couple inches off his arms.

2. wrap the timing chip in black electric tape a couple of times.  It will not interfere with the chip and make the whole device slippery and less prone to hanging up.

3.  Apply copious amounts of Body Glide/Pam/whatever to your arms, legs, neck, AND timing chip.....and here is the part almost everyone forgets about.  Apply the same lubricant liberally to the outside of your suits legs and arms.  Rubber sticks to rubber.....and everywhere you pull the suit over itself that is what you have.

Your suit should be at your waist when you hit T1.  Push your suit bottoms down as far as you can with one motion, put your helmet and glasses on as you step out of your suit.  By the time your suit is off you should be on your way.....maximum of 15 seconds added....actually, WAY maximum.




Excellent advice, thanks!. I did use plenty of bodyglide. Biggest problem is my suit has ankle zippers which actually got caught in the chip. I'm thinking about cutting those zippers off. When I get back from vacation in a week I'm going to put the suit on and check out that option.
2015-07-01 8:24 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint

http://www.rokasports.com/products/sim-comp-neoprene-shorts?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=1003349573&gclid=Cj0KEQjwn86sBRDroPiR0LrSzNYBEiQAzOaSYHPlLdJynUxod9XLyg8-hEvdGG62r5c6sLaXL-_CQjoaAqAr8P8HAQ

Wetsuit shorts. (I am not endorsing this particular brand, btw) Will add the lower body buoyancy that most of us like but you can get them off quickly.

2015-07-01 9:13 AM
in reply to: pga_mike

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538
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Brooklyn, New York
Subject: RE: Would you forego wetsuit in sprint
Boy those Rokas look interesting. May be a nice 65-80 degree water option for me


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