General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Super basic cycling question about hills Rss Feed  
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2015-06-15 11:07 AM

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Subject: Super basic cycling question about hills
This is so stupid, but haven't figured it out (doesn't help that I'm afraid of hills and avoid them). I live on a road hilly enough to attract packs of cyclists. I occasionally can fight my way up the longest, steepest hill in first gear, but usually the bike just comes to a stop. I'd like to stand and power my way up but can't figure out what gear to get in and when.
The gear has to be doable standing and keep the bike in a forward motion. Sometimes I have gone too high, can't pedal and I come to a stop, sometimes the gear is too low and can't take advantage of standing but it's too hard to pedal and I come to a stop. Then do the walk of shame up the hill.

When you approach a big hill when do you switch and to what gear? I know it depends on fitness, but if I'm struggling in first gear, what would be a reasonable gear to try standing and when do I shift?

Thanks,
Mitzi


2015-06-15 11:23 AM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills

I keep my cadence the same no matter what gear I'm in.  When I see my cadence starting to drop, I start switching until I run out of gears.

2015-06-15 11:47 AM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills

I'll assume this is a road bike with combined shift/brake levers (easiest to make the transition from seated to standing and back).

For a long hill, I'll usually up the effort from flat a bit while in the same gear, and when cadence drops below say 85 RPM, I'll start downshifting (one at a time). I don't let myself get all the way through my gears, though, unless it's absolutely necessary. I alternate standing and sitting for a break. Don't get so fatigued while seated that you NEED to stand to keep the bike moving. When standing, your cadence should drop some. Pop up a gear or two (or three if your cassette is close-ratio) while you work your way from seated to standing, keep the bike under power. Don't bottom out on the pedal stroke, keep the knees slightly bent at the bottom just as you do when pedaling seated -- that will keep surging and power loss at the bottom of the pedal stroke to a minimum. When going back to sitting, drop down a gear or two and ride it out a ways (a few seconds), then drop down the other gears until you're back in the right cadence and resistance range.

Tip -- don't stand up in your lowest gear unless ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. If you do, you'll have no where to bail out (downshift) when you sit down again.

Hope that helps.

2015-06-15 12:31 PM
in reply to: GAUG3

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills
Originally posted by GAUG3

I keep my cadence the same no matter what gear I'm in.  When I see my cadence starting to drop, I start switching until I run out of gears.




This is the easiest way to explain... Build up momentum but save your legs, hold a cadence and shift down until you can't anymore.
2015-06-15 12:47 PM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills

If this is a single hill you struggle with, then it sounds like a great place to work on how to best manage your effort and gearing (trying some of the tips above), as well as to gauge progress on your power-to-weight ratio--which will help you get up any hill easier/faster.  If it's something that happens on many hills in your area, you should try to see if you can get more gearing on your bike (larger cogs on your cassette or smaller chainrings on a compact crank) so that you don't run out of options as often before having to dismount.

2015-06-16 9:22 AM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills

I'm a big guy and thus it goes without saying that I struggle with hills.  YES I shift down ... all the time.  The way I work a hill is to keep pedaling at the same cadence, and shift down when the effort to maintain the same cadence gets too hard.  There are lots of times where I'm in the small chainring on the front and large gear on the back aka - the 'granny' gear.  To me, I go faster up the hill by staying seated and maintaining the same cadence.  I do stand - but mostly to get a stretch in on the legs and just a small boost to help maintain the cadence ... very seldom do I stand and pedal the entire length of the hill.  If your entire weight is borne on the crank while standing and you come to a stop ... you are in waaaay to high of a gear.  You most likely should have shifted down 2-3 gears.

Sounds like you have the perfect setup to get in some training for hills ... right out your front door.  There was a spot for me wherein the road elevation profile was shaped like the Nike check mark ... short and steep for ~1/2 mile - long and less steeper for about 1mile.  I would do 3-4 repeats on this road to build climbing skill-strength.  My suggestion is use your 'hill'; focus on your gear changing to keep your cadence up.  If your bike is in the lowest gear and pedaling is too hard you may need to make a gearing change.  Any good local bike shop can easily change the rear cassette which would help. 

With some effort and work on shifting to keep your cadence up, you'll look back and think how you used to avoid hills and now don't give it a thought.



2015-06-16 2:00 PM
in reply to: Dorm57

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills

One more thought on this: Rule 10 of "The Rules" ... "It never gets easier - you just go faster"

2015-06-16 5:19 PM
in reply to: #5122639

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills
Is the hill a pretty consistent gradient increase? If so, you may consider going into your 'climbing gear' (for me, this is the 2nd easiest gear) at the base of the hill so you don't need to worry about shifting on your way up. Whatever your cadence needs to be ... fast, slow, sitting, standing. .. doesn't matter. Just get to the top of the hill without dismounting. You might be surprised to go faster up the hill at a fast cadence on an easy gear, than trying to mash /stand in the pedals

I find the easiest way to shift while going up hill is to pedal hard for a few seconds to build up speed, stop pedaling, shift, and then start pedaling again under control until the gears fully change

2015-06-17 12:27 PM
in reply to: matcrawf


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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills
I am going to take this another way. Is you bike properly fitted? If you seat is too low it is often hard to climb while seated. So you end up standing which a lot of people find more tiring. I rarely stand while climbing and that is usually to pass or sprint ahead of something.
2015-06-17 2:26 PM
in reply to: matcrawf

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills

If the hill is steep enough that you are having trouble making it up at all then you want to be in your easiest gear (smallest up front, biggest in the back).  You can try shifting one gear at a time as the hill approaches keeping your cadence constant but on a very steep hills it is often better to quickly shift into an appropriate gear before you actually need it.  Shifting under the heavy load of a hill can be difficult.  There is no problem from being in a gear that is too easy except you'll go slower.

If you put your bike in its easiest gear and try pedaling up the hill while seated you may not go fast but as long as you can physically keep the pedals moving you'll continue to go forward.  There are certainly some hills that are steep enough that I can't physically move the pedals even in my easiest gear while seated.  In that case you simply stand up and continue to mash the pedals.  Again you won't be moving fast, but if you can move the pedals you'll be moving forward. If you are in your easiest gear and you are having trouble making it up a hill while standing and the hill is so steep that you can't generate enough force to move the pedals then you'll need to ride some smaller hills to build up your power.

I suspect your standing vs sitting problem could also mean you need to work on your bike handling skills.  More likely you are having troubling riding your bike either sitting or standing at the very slow speed of your easiest gear on a steep hill.  At slow speeds you need better balance to keep the bike going straight and to prevent toppling over.  If you don't already have them you can try putting some platform pedals and normal shoes on so you don't have to worry about unclipping.  I also recommend simply riding around in a flat parking lot or perhaps a grass field and trying to ride as slow as you can while keeping your feet on the pedals.  You can play games like trying to stay on the parking lot lines at slow speed, stopping and starting without putting a foot down, or simply seeing how long you can "track stand" by balancing in one place before you have to put a foot down.

2015-06-17 2:57 PM
in reply to: sbohrer

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills

Originally posted by sbohrer

I also recommend simply riding around in a flat parking lot or perhaps a grass field and trying to ride as slow as you can while keeping your feet on the pedals.  You can play games like trying to stay on the parking lot lines at slow speed, stopping and starting without putting a foot down, or simply seeing how long you can "track stand" by balancing in one place before you have to put a foot down.

One fun way to do this is to find a parking lot with a slight incline, grab a few friends, and have a "slow race". The point is to be the LAST person across the line without going backwards or putting a foot down. Depending on your comfort level, you can include rules for "inhibiting" your opponents...



2015-06-17 10:18 PM
in reply to: briderdt

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills
Thanks everyone.

I am new to cycling and have no bike skills - hubbie has a ton just from riding all over town as a kid. I'm from the city, so no riding growing up, so that is something to work on - I do feel wobbly as the bike slows, so I'll work on keeping control going real slow.

I have an entry level road bike so haven't spent the money for a proper fitting, hate to spend $200 for a $700 bike, but I know that is short sighted.

I don't have good control but it just feels like the bike stops in the easiest gear. It is my fitness level, but I like the idea of having someone look at the rear cassette - if there is something a different size (or number of teeth or something) can do to help me I think that would be a good investment.

Mitzi
2015-06-18 7:27 AM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills

Mitzi, what is your current bike and setup ... what is the gearing?  Some pics would help.

2015-06-18 7:33 AM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills

Originally posted by MuscleMomma Thanks everyone. I am new to cycling and have no bike skills - hubbie has a ton just from riding all over town as a kid. I'm from the city, so no riding growing up, so that is something to work on - I do feel wobbly as the bike slows, so I'll work on keeping control going real slow. I have an entry level road bike so haven't spent the money for a proper fitting, hate to spend $200 for a $700 bike, but I know that is short sighted. I don't have good control but it just feels like the bike stops in the easiest gear. It is my fitness level, but I like the idea of having someone look at the rear cassette - if there is something a different size (or number of teeth or something) can do to help me I think that would be a good investment. Mitzi

Do you have access to a bike shop with friendly staff?  Even if you don't want to spend the $200 on a fitting, if you take it to a shop and describe the issue you are having with hills they may be able to make some quick basic adjustments if there is something way out of wack.  Probably even more likely to be willing to do so if you buy a few items...

2015-06-18 9:19 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by MuscleMomma Thanks everyone. I am new to cycling and have no bike skills - hubbie has a ton just from riding all over town as a kid. I'm from the city, so no riding growing up, so that is something to work on - I do feel wobbly as the bike slows, so I'll work on keeping control going real slow. I have an entry level road bike so haven't spent the money for a proper fitting, hate to spend $200 for a $700 bike, but I know that is short sighted. I don't have good control but it just feels like the bike stops in the easiest gear. It is my fitness level, but I like the idea of having someone look at the rear cassette - if there is something a different size (or number of teeth or something) can do to help me I think that would be a good investment. Mitzi

Do you have access to a bike shop with friendly staff?  Even if you don't want to spend the $200 on a fitting, if you take it to a shop and describe the issue you are having with hills they may be able to make some quick basic adjustments if there is something way out of wack.  Probably even more likely to be willing to do so if you buy a few items...

I have an entry level bike also and didn't want to spend a lot of money on a bike fit (also couldn't really afford it) but the local LBS offers 3 different levels of fits.  I had the basic bike fit done - they ended up adjusting my seat slightly and switching out my stem to a shorter one ($30 cost for that).  I actually ended up getting the fit for free since the shop is one of the sponsors of my tri club, but I would have gladly paid for it - I'm a lot more comfortable on my bike now.  Go talk to them - if they're a good shop they'll be more than willing to help you out.    

2015-06-18 9:27 AM
in reply to: sbohrer

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills

Originally posted by sbohrer

If you put your bike in its easiest gear and try pedaling up the hill while seated you may not go fast but as long as you can physically keep the pedals moving you'll continue to go forward.  There are certainly some hills that are steep enough that I can't physically move the pedals even in my easiest gear while seated.  In that case you simply stand up and continue to mash the pedals.  Again you won't be moving fast, but if you can move the pedals you'll be moving forward. If you are in your easiest gear and you are having trouble making it up a hill while standing and the hill is so steep that you can't generate enough force to move the pedals then you'll need to ride some smaller hills to build up your power.

I had to laugh when I read this.  Like the OP, I avoid hills whenever possible.  I have this cartoon-like picture in my head of me riding up a hill pedaling as fast as I can (so fast you can't even see my feet ) and the bike still comes to a complete stop and I fall over.  It's silly and irrational and I know the only way to get over it is to stop avoiding the hills and start riding them - and considering my races in August and September both have hilly bike courses I need to do it sooner rather than later!



2015-06-19 12:13 AM
in reply to: soccermom15

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills
I'll get a pic online shortly of my gears and like the idea of befriending my local bike shop. I know it's time to get stuff for a flat, yeah and learn how to fix one.
When I'm in the lowest gear going uphill I'm hammering away and it's really hard to pedal, and then the bike comes to a stop. I'm taking all this good advice and admitting I am just not in the shape I should be this late in the season.

Mitzi
2015-06-19 2:05 PM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills

Mitzi ... I have a road close by that I've named the "Nike" hill road.  The elevation profile looks like a Nike checkmark - 1.7 mile in length ... first 1/2 mile is very steep; short flat bottom, and ~1 mile of long steady climb.  It took me almost a year of cycling before I could make it up the short, steep part ... even then it was a toss up when I reached the top as to whether I'd puke or pass out.  Now, I ride the Nike hill road often and even do repeats on it for training. 

My point is cycling takes time to build strength, stamina and skill.  Over time you'll learn how to read the road and react to be in the right gear and develop the strength and stamina to tackle the road.  Hang in there.

2015-06-22 9:08 AM
in reply to: Dorm57

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Subject: RE: Super basic cycling question about hills
Thanks - I'm reminded of SIUB - suck it up buttercup right? I still want to look into the cassette thing, but it's time to get over my fears and get back out there this year.
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