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2015-06-26 9:33 AM

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Subject: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

I wish my brother were still alive to see this.  He would have been so happy.

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SUPREME_COURT_GAY_MARRIAGE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-06-26-10-16-58



Edited by crowny2 2015-06-26 9:33 AM


2015-06-26 9:34 AM
in reply to: crowny2

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
YES!
2015-06-26 9:51 AM
in reply to: Renee

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Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

Excellent! 

2015-06-26 10:07 AM
in reply to: crowny2

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Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
YES! It is a good day :-)
2015-06-26 10:41 AM
in reply to: ejshowers

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Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

Well now NORMAL marriage is ruined. The bible says that George Washington didn't want this.

 

This has been a rough week for the conservatives.  Healthcare and Marriage for everyone, we're turning into communists over here.

2015-06-26 1:29 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
Originally posted by dmiller5

Well now NORMAL marriage is ruined. The bible says that George Washington didn't want this.

 

This has been a rough week for the conservatives.  Healthcare and Marriage for everyone, we're turning into communists over here.




You are a bit of work, aren't you?


2015-06-26 4:04 PM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

no i'm a bleeding hear liberal who believe in handouts for the lazy and taking rights away from the majority.

2015-06-26 5:01 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
I think I was concerned with your broad brushed stereotyping of conservatives. Being a conservative, I was anticipating and hoping this ruling would go as it did. I've got conservative and liberal friends that are btiching their heads off today because of the ruling. We don't all fit into neat little stereotypical packages. I just found it a bit narrow minded is all.

As far as the Ocare ruing, meh. We all knew it was going to go the way it did. This ill conceived pig will implode on itself in a few years on it's own anyway. I've accepted that my healthcare is going to cost me another thousand bucks a year and have planned accordingly. Sucks, but maybe someday I might not be as fortunate and might need it myself.


Here's another one that will make your head explode. I don't go to church except for deaths and marriages. That will include a gay marriage now if I were to be invited to one. Open your mind and you might see that it's not all black and white. Plenty gray area to explore out there. Just need to clear your pre-conceived notions about people.
2015-06-26 7:53 PM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
Have been smiling all day. There is so much love and celebration all around me I feel like my heart may explode.
2015-06-27 11:24 AM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

Originally posted by mdg2003 I think I was concerned with your broad brushed stereotyping of conservatives. Being a conservative, I was anticipating and hoping this ruling would go as it did. I've got conservative and liberal friends that are btiching their heads off today because of the ruling. We don't all fit into neat little stereotypical packages. I just found it a bit narrow minded is all. As far as the Ocare ruing, meh. We all knew it was going to go the way it did. This ill conceived pig will implode on itself in a few years on it's own anyway. I've accepted that my healthcare is going to cost me another thousand bucks a year and have planned accordingly. Sucks, but maybe someday I might not be as fortunate and might need it myself. Here's another one that will make your head explode. I don't go to church except for deaths and marriages. That will include a gay marriage now if I were to be invited to one. Open your mind and you might see that it's not all black and white. Plenty gray area to explore out there. Just need to clear your pre-conceived notions about people.

Dude lighten up, I was just being facetious

2015-06-27 5:06 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

I was vary happy to hear this news yesterday.  I was surprised that it happened but I couldn't be happier.  My boyfriend and myself are having a celebratory drink today!

It was a big step forward today, and I again would like to thank many of you for the support that you have shown on this forum on the issue. 

Cheers.



2015-06-28 4:51 PM
in reply to: Justin86

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Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

Between this and Obama's Amazing Grace, I feel so proud to be an American this week.

2015-06-30 8:23 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
Originally posted by dmiller5

  • Dude lighten up, I was just being facetious




    No worries, facetious and snarky is good by me. You were being facetious and inaccurate. Thought I owed it to you to point that out. Granted you were pretty damned accurate, just not completely so.
    2015-06-30 11:02 PM
    in reply to: mdg2003

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    Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
    Very happy for what is happening in my home country. Gives me some hope. I've lived in Canada for 20 years, and it's heartening to see some change across the border.

    If it weren't so pathetic and polarizing, I'd find it humorous that some people truly believe that "conventional" marriage and family are somehow going to suffer now. We've had marriage equality in Canada for 10 years now, and believe it or not, the country is still intact. And lo and behold-- marriage equality doesn't allow people to marry animals or polygamy. Imagine that!
    2015-07-01 11:54 AM
    in reply to: jennifer_runs

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    Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
    Originally posted by jennifer_runs
    And lo and behold-- marriage equality doesn't allow .... or polygamy. Imagine that!


    I have no idea why people think that polygamy shouldn't be legal based on the reasons that were provided for legalizing gay marriage. The reasons against it seem very similar to the reasons people provided for thinking gay marriage was a bad idea. Mainly that it was weird and they don't think it is healthy.
    2015-07-02 9:19 AM
    in reply to: jmcconne

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    Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

    Originally posted by jmcconne
    Originally posted by jennifer_runs And lo and behold-- marriage equality doesn't allow .... or polygamy. Imagine that!
    I have no idea why people think that polygamy shouldn't be legal based on the reasons that were provided for legalizing gay marriage. The reasons against it seem very similar to the reasons people provided for thinking gay marriage was a bad idea. Mainly that it was weird and they don't think it is healthy.

    I agree, I'm not a fan of polygamy but from a legal standpoint it's no different than SSM.

    One thing that is interesting (from a legal perspective) is that there are decades of case law regarding property rights and such with marriages and divorces between a husband and wife.  These translate pretty easily with same sex marriages, but not so much with polygamist marriages.  For example if a guy has 3 wives of 20, 10, and 2 years and they all get a divorce (or the husband dies) then how does the property get separated.  Not saying it is justification for not allowing it, but it does throw in some interesting legal wrinkles.



    2015-07-02 9:23 AM
    in reply to: tuwood

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    Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

    I'm trying to figure out why any man would want more than one wife.

    2015-07-02 9:31 AM
    in reply to: Left Brain

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    Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

    Originally posted by Left Brain

    I'm trying to figure out why any man would want more than one wife.

    Amen to that.  In this particular case counseling might be in order.  lol

    2015-07-02 9:40 AM
    in reply to: tuwood

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    Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

    Originally posted by tuwood

    I agree, I'm not a fan of polygamy but from a legal standpoint it's no different than SSM.

    Pretty sure that's not the case.  

    as for Polygamy, it really depends on how it's practiced.  I was just in Kenya, and in the rural villages, it was not uncommon for the wealthier (i.e. a sufficient number of goats and cattle) men to have 2 or 3 consenting adult wives (and 15 children).  How it is practiced by the Mormon Fundamentalists (not associated with the LDS church), is pretty gross.  It's basically rape of young girls.  I know I won't offend any mormon fundamentalists here, as their closed communities (i.e. Colorado City) are not permitted to have outside media or contact.

    2015-07-02 10:26 AM
    in reply to: tuwood

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    Champion
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    Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

    Originally posted by tuwood

    Originally posted by jmcconne
    Originally posted by jennifer_runs And lo and behold-- marriage equality doesn't allow .... or polygamy. Imagine that!
    I have no idea why people think that polygamy shouldn't be legal based on the reasons that were provided for legalizing gay marriage. The reasons against it seem very similar to the reasons people provided for thinking gay marriage was a bad idea. Mainly that it was weird and they don't think it is healthy.

    I agree, I'm not a fan of polygamy but from a legal standpoint it's no different than SSM.

    One thing that is interesting (from a legal perspective) is that there are decades of case law regarding property rights and such with marriages and divorces between a husband and wife.  These translate pretty easily with same sex marriages, but not so much with polygamist marriages.  For example if a guy has 3 wives of 20, 10, and 2 years and they all get a divorce (or the husband dies) then how does the property get separated.  Not saying it is justification for not allowing it, but it does throw in some interesting legal wrinkles.

    Morally and conceptually, I agree that there is no difference between SSM and polygamy. 

    What I bolded above is the biggest difference between the two.  It is legally a different contract.  And also causes significant tax implications that frankly are NOT affected by SSM.  So I think THAT is where the biggest difference lies. 

    2015-07-02 10:35 AM
    in reply to: crowny2

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    Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

    what is wrong with polygamy morally?  if people are in love why can't they be together? 

     

    the only reason we don't allow it is because of certain religions.   not everyone follows those.

     

    lets make pre-marital sex illegal too



    2015-07-02 11:59 AM
    in reply to: dmiller5

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    Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

    Originally posted by dmiller5

    what is wrong with polygamy morally?  if people are in love why can't they be together? 

     

    the only reason we don't allow it is because of certain religions.   not everyone follows those.

     

    lets make pre-marital sex illegal too

    I know "if people are in love" is often used, but society still has to determine limits on what we allow or don't allow even when "people are in love".  If a 15 year old is "in love" with a 30 year old we as a society say that it is not morally acceptable and created an "age of consent" law that says the 15 year old boy has to be 17 (or 18) before he can legally "be in love".

    Another example is familial relationships.  If a Brother is "in love with" his sister there are biological consequences to them procreating and society as a whole has traditionally deemed it to be disallowed.

    I know both of these examples are far different than SSM and polygamy but I'm trying to explain that we will always have legal limits on what we as a society allow to be acceptable and it's based on public opinion.  60 years ago public opinion was against mixed race marriages and it was illegal.  Public opinion changed and it's a non issue today.  Public opinion was against SSM even 20 years ago so it was not allowed, and public opinion has changed so it is now legal.
    Public opinion is against polygamy currently so it will remain illegal, but public opinion may change.  Same thing could be said about other types of "I'm in love with" relationships, but it really boils down to public opinion.

     

    2015-07-02 12:04 PM
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    Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
    Originally posted by jmcconne

    Originally posted by jennifer_runs
    And lo and behold-- marriage equality doesn't allow .... or polygamy. Imagine that!


    I have no idea why people think that polygamy shouldn't be legal based on the reasons that were provided for legalizing gay marriage. The reasons against it seem very similar to the reasons people provided for thinking gay marriage was a bad idea. Mainly that it was weird and they don't think it is healthy.


    The reasons people wanted same-sex marriage granted the same rights are opposite sex-marriage have to do with spousal rights.

    Couples get certain rights granted to the partner (economic, health decisions, etc.) and the legal marriage forms that legal couple partnership. In states that forbid same-sex marriage, the partner was denied all of those rights. Imagine if your partner was dying and you weren't even allowed in the hospital room because you aren't "family." This is the kind of thing that same-sex couples deserve in the same way as any other couples.

    If polygamy were legal in this sense, then you could designate multiple partners? Who gets spousal rights? The government isn't going to stop you from having two women in your bed, but they just don't have legal partnership rights.

    Edited by jennifer_runs 2015-07-02 12:07 PM
    2015-07-02 12:22 PM
    in reply to: jennifer_runs

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    Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

    Originally posted by jennifer_runs
    Originally posted by jmcconne
    Originally posted by jennifer_runs And lo and behold-- marriage equality doesn't allow .... or polygamy. Imagine that!
    I have no idea why people think that polygamy shouldn't be legal based on the reasons that were provided for legalizing gay marriage. The reasons against it seem very similar to the reasons people provided for thinking gay marriage was a bad idea. Mainly that it was weird and they don't think it is healthy.
    The reasons people wanted same-sex marriage granted the same rights are opposite sex-marriage have to do with spousal rights. Couples get certain rights granted to the partner (economic, health decisions, etc.) and the legal marriage forms that legal couple partnership. In states that forbid same-sex marriage, the partner was denied all of those rights. Imagine if your partner was dying and you weren't even allowed in the hospital room because you aren't "family." This is the kind of thing that same-sex couples deserve in the same way as any other couples. If polygamy were legal in this sense, then you could designate multiple partners? Who gets spousal rights? The government isn't going to stop you from having two women in your bed, but they just don't have legal partnership rights.

    I'm playing devils advocate here, but why shouldn't they have those rights?  Every person in America should be offered the same rights correct.
    (I think this is where I'm supposed to insert something about "why are you such a hater" /sarc)

    2015-07-02 3:15 PM
    in reply to: #5124985

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    Subject: RE: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
    Dmiller

    I don't have a problem with it morally. I was pointing out that for tax and recognition purposes they aren't the same. And frankly it could also make a whale of a mess for custody.

    I'm also not saying it couldn't be worked out. But beyond the "moral" objections there truly are other implications that are significantly different than SSM.
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