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2015-06-27 7:37 AM

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Subject: long run/walk for IM training
What is the distance of your long run in time or miles that your plan has you doing for IM? I think most plans state you should get up to 18 miles or 3 hrs, but I'm wandering if there are plans that say 2 hrs. I know the bike conditioning carries over big time, which will be my strength this year. I've done 2 IM's and know what to expect, but I'm curious if I stop at 2 or 2.5 hours in training because I've been dealing with an older injury that is intermittent and want to make it to the starting line in 20 weeks. Right now I plan on race walking at the end and If I can run any of it I will be happy. Put it this way, I would do my long runs near 8:30 pace and this year my long run/walks will be between the 10-13 pace.

Edited by SEADOCHA 2015-06-27 7:39 AM


2015-06-27 10:05 AM
in reply to: SEADOCHA

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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training

I've said this countless times... the long run is the single most overrated workout in triathlon training.  It's the volume and frequency of your running over the course of your training that matters.  Not that I ran three hours a couple of times.

Too many people only run three times per week and use one of those runs as their long run.  The long run often accounts for 50% or more, which is often a recipe for disaster.  People will make their three runs something like 6, 6, 18.  That's just ridiculous.  Someone training 3x per week for 30 miles should not do 18 mile runs.  Running more often (4-6x per week) while doing some mixture of short, medium, and long runs is more beneficial.  Odds are the long run won't be as long and it certainly won't account for the majority of your weekly volume.

I haven't done a long run above 12 miles since early 2012.  During that span I trained for six Ironman races.  I only walked the aid stations or when my asthma kicked up (besides almost passing out at mile 20 or so at Whistler in 2013, I sat down for a few minutes and walked for about 1/2 mile).  Otherwise I ran just about every inch of the run course.  Despite not being a naturally gifted runner (I can swim well and bike really well), despite being in my mid-40's, and despite never running more than 12 miles in training, I almost broke 4 hours on the IM marathon.

If you're nursing injuries a long run is probably not the smartest workout.  Try some frequency for your volume and train smart and make it to the start line.  

2015-06-27 6:06 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training
I'm pretty sure that I won't go over 2.5 hoursl. My first IM I didn't run 6 weeks prior and the longest was 16 miler. I had a 4;20 marathon and it would have been faster if my ankle didn't give out I always like to get that reassurance though. It's nice
2015-06-28 8:08 AM
in reply to: #5125176

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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training
I agree. Frequency over distance. Run durability is often overlooked. My long run is about an hour and a half right now and will max out somewhere around 2.5 hours probly only once.
2015-06-29 10:32 AM
in reply to: SEADOCHA

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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training

I am a slower runner,10:30-11:00 miles, so in my previous IM journeys, I have figured out that I need to do more long runs. IMs go exponentially better for me when I do this in training. My plan this year has me doing two, 3-hour runs (and building up, so plenty of 2 and 2.5-hour runs as well). 

With your past injury and IM experience though, I would trust your gut and stick with what you think will work best.

2015-06-29 2:06 PM
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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training
I always went up to 3 and that has been plenty, but that was when I could knock out 21/22 miles, but I'm trying to make it there healthy this time I think I'm going to cut myself off at 2.5 this time or maybe even 2. we'll see! I think I plan on stopping at 16 this time around.

Edited by SEADOCHA 2015-06-29 2:07 PM


2015-06-30 1:21 PM
in reply to: SEADOCHA

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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training
I think this boils down to the classic debate......high volume / low intensity vs. low volume / high intensity. Different sides of the same coin, but the name of the game is training load. Both approaches can lead to success.

However, if you cut back on volume but don't increase intensity, your run fitness will suffer.

Also, as a middle aged MOP participant, I don't think you'll notice much in the way of bike conditioning carry-over with respect to run fitness at IM distances. Those who have not done the work on their run almost always walk substantial portions of their IM run......at least that's my perspective, having run by them when I was prepared and walked with them when I wasn't!

.
2015-06-30 2:46 PM
in reply to: g_shotts

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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training
This thread is fascinating to me. I am 7 weeks out from my first IM and my run training is "behind" by the standards of those who advocate for 3-hour, 20-mile runs.

I am doing very well on my swim and bike training. No worries there. But so far my long runs are 10 to 11 miles. I have done a lot of 6 and 7 mile runs as well. Now that I'm 7 weeks out, I was planning to push myself to run 13 or 15 or 18 miles. Those are long runs for me (my strength is the bike) and I'm concerned that doing those longer runs will mean that I'm sore for the next few days and need to sacrifice other training.

My guess is that I'll certainly need to do runs longer than 11 miles, but after reading this thread I'm not necessarily thinking I have to do 18 or 20-mile runs.
2015-06-30 10:26 PM
in reply to: halfironmike

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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training
I'm a big fan of the 'run more often' philosophy! It's helped me remain injury free for a couple years now, when I used to always have something going on.

I'm training for IMAZ this year and my coach only wanted me to run 3x/week. I pushed her into letting me run 5x/week, but fitting it all in is the trick.

for those that run more frequently, how do you fit it in with your IM training and how long was your longest run but longest total milage and how was it broken up?
Thanks!
2015-07-01 1:40 PM
in reply to: runspingirl

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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training
I have stuck to the BarryP plan of running 6x per week pretty much my entire training for IMC in a few weeks.

My overall volume for my training has been a min of 30mi/wk to a max of 37/wk, constantly since week 1. My longest run in this session has only been 14 miles. I've found that for me, overall weekly volume, vs any individual long session, on the bike/run translates well to being able to race longer distances for both.

Though my longest run this time is less (but only about 4 miles less than my longest run for my first IM), I have WAY more volume underneath me this time. Just estimating I have probably ran an average of 33mi/wk*18 weeks in this session vs. 23mi/wk*18 weeks the first time. That's almost 200 miles more running.

I do 2 a day sessions most days. Biking/swimming in the mornings and running in the afternoon. My long bike and long run days are the only workouts I do on those days. I try to separate my long bike/run days by at least a few days.
2015-07-03 10:56 AM
in reply to: cnsegura

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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training
This is good to know. My coach doesn't want me running that often, and even this week I had to sneak in a run on the days where it wasn't listed. But, I do better if I'm consistent and not drop off drastically, even for a recovery week.

I'd love to see other examples from anyone doing 5-6 days run/week. I try to follow the BarryP program as well!


2015-07-04 10:18 AM
in reply to: runspingirl

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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training
Originally posted by runspingirl

This is good to know. My coach doesn't want me running that often, and even this week I had to sneak in a run on the days where it wasn't listed. But, I do better if I'm consistent and not drop off drastically, even for a recovery week.

I'd love to see other examples from anyone doing 5-6 days run/week. I try to follow the BarryP program as well!


I agree. I was only running 3 times a week and working on making that 4+ times a week.

I would say if you have to "sneak" anything, it is time to talk with your coach. Not saying you should throw out the baby (coach) with the bathwater but you are paying this person, he/she works for you and you shouldn't have to sneak anything.

While training for IMAZ 2013 I only ran 3 times a week and my long run was, at times, too long. I am changing that this time. I am having some tight ITB issues, my whole left side is janky and I don't want to make it worse. Add to that, it is stupid hot here in Houston and there is no reason for me to be out in the heat running for 3-4 hours.
The benefits don't outweigh the risks.
2015-07-05 10:02 AM
in reply to: KeriKadi

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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training

Originally posted by KeriKadi
Originally posted by runspingirl My coach doesn't want me running that often, and even this week I had to sneak in a run on the days where it wasn't listed.  
I would say if you have to "sneak" anything, it is time to talk with your coach. Not saying you should throw out the baby (coach) with the bathwater but you are paying this person, he/she works for you and you shouldn't have to sneak anything.

I agree with Keri.  You shouldn't have to "sneak" in workouts not prescribed by your coach.  A lot of people forget the coach works for you and not the other way around.  Granted, you should not be able to do whatever you want because after all the coach was hired for a reason but there's still some negotiating and compromise.

What is your coach's opposition to running more than three times per week?  If their reason is "You'll injure yourself" then it's time to find a new coach.

2015-07-08 3:08 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: long run/walk for IM training
Thanks guys! I get that I shouldn't have to sneak things in - and have spoken to her about wanting to run more often - so she schedules some shorter runs on the days where they are needed. To her defense it was a rest/recovery week where I really scale things back, but I still feel I need to run at least a couple miles, just to keep my legs from being dead when I start back again.

The issue with me at least is that on any week - I teach 3 regular spin classes but can sub up to 3-4 additional ones, so some days I'm doing triple workouts if I subbed a day I was supposed to swim and run. I try to keep it low intensity but sometimes I get a bit caught up in my class :-). 2-3 days are high intensity/threshold days, and the rest are Z2. So with all the classes and then running 5-6 days/week and fitting in 2-3 swim sessions a week, plus yoga and strength training, gets a bit tough. I'm pretty used to doing double workouts just about every day, but she doesn't want me to get overtrained or burnt out. I told her I'd cancel a run if I felt like I was too fatigued.
She wants my scheduled workouts to be pretty high quality and worries that if I'm doing too much then I won't hit my target HR/goals for the other workouts. Just all a work in progress and I'm learning as we go along too!

Thanks for the feedback and good to know that others are out there that run more often! Good to see everyones schedules and how they manage it!
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