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2015-07-21 4:34 PM


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Subject: Heart rate Question
I have been training towards my first half ironman for the last 2 months and recently got a coach to help get me ready for my race in 11 weeks...To start with, i am 36 and weigh 260 pounds...My question is, before starting with a coach i was running about 10-12 miles a week and on my runs heart rate was averaging 159BPM and mile pacing was roughly 10:30 on 3 milers and 11:30 on long 5 miler...Now i am working with a coach and he is suggesting that i keep my heart rate under 145 through all of my training activity which is causing me to have to walk every 200 yards and is making my pace 14-15 minutes/mile...I feel much better after my runs but man i am so slow...My goal is to finish the race...What are your guys thoughts on this as a training strategy...i am not really second guessing what i am being told, i just want to insure that what i am doing is getting me closer to where i will need to be in the next few months!


2015-07-21 4:47 PM
in reply to: #5130262

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Subject: RE: Heart rate Question
Without any other data it's hard to give an answer. On what is he basing the 145 number? Does it feel like you are going as fast as you can possibly go for those 3-5 mile runs when you are at 159? If so then yes, that's too fast.

If you have to walk every 200 yards, that's fine if it's helping you extend the length of your runs. I presume your coach wants you to build up mileage from the 10-12 miles per week, and the best way to do that is to make sure you are going an easier pace. So it sounds like good advice on the surface.
2015-07-21 4:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate Question
Originally posted by run forest run

I have been training towards my first half ironman for the last 2 months and recently got a coach to help get me ready for my race in 11 weeks...To start with, i am 36 and weigh 260 pounds...My question is, before starting with a coach i was running about 10-12 miles a week and on my runs heart rate was averaging 159BPM and mile pacing was roughly 10:30 on 3 milers and 11:30 on long 5 miler...Now i am working with a coach and he is suggesting that i keep my heart rate under 145 through all of my training activity which is causing me to have to walk every 200 yards and is making my pace 14-15 minutes/mile...I feel much better after my runs but man i am so slow...My goal is to finish the race...What are your guys thoughts on this as a training strategy...i am not really second guessing what i am being told, i just want to insure that what i am doing is getting me closer to where i will need to be in the next few months!


Google MAF, Mafetone, Phil Mafetone.

He was the coach to Mark Allen. He prescribes that you run at 180-your age so in your case 180-36 = 144. Walking to keep it there is part of the strategy.

There are a lot of MAF haters out there so you will get a lot of poo-poo on it. But there are very competent athletes and coaches that believe in it.

With time, you will be able to run the whole thing and then you will pick up the pace at 144. Be prepared to get a lot of nay-sayers on it.



Edited by marcag 2015-07-21 5:02 PM
2015-07-21 5:56 PM
in reply to: travis777

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Subject: RE: Heart rate Question

I prefer calc HR training zones using the LTHR method via field testing.  See here: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=633

Now if you are not able to perform the field test then using any method is better than none as long as you not going to hard as a result of it.

When I 1st did the field LT test and determined my zones, the 5 miler I did after it I had to run-walk after 3.5 miles of my 5 miles run to keep my HR in the proper zone (Z2).  So perhaps you were pushing it too hard before, and maybe, just maybe 145 is too easy, but its not a bad idea to stick with it if you don't do the field test above.

Also, have you done any run races recently?  If so you can also use a run pace calculator such as McMillan's.  You enter a race time hit calculate and on the left select 'Training Paces'.  For me my LTHR zones line up well with the paces calculated.

Safe training, HIM is a solid test of will power!

 

2015-07-22 2:02 PM
in reply to: travis777

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Subject: RE: Heart rate Question
The idea is for you to grow your capacity while working in Z1 and Z2. You might have to walk currently to keep your HR around 144, but over time you should be able to run, not walk, and will be able to run faster while staying in the proper zones. If you are planning to race 70.3, you will be racing primarily in Z1 and Z2...in theory at least.
2015-07-22 2:35 PM
in reply to: travis777

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Subject: RE: Heart rate Question

Sounds like he is using a formula.  Formula will get you in the ballpark.  One man's heart beats different than the next.  That is why I do field tests to establish my hr zones.  I even went as far has having a blood test.  The formula was was way under.  The field test was spot on.



2015-07-22 2:42 PM
in reply to: travis777

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Subject: RE: Heart rate Question
Out of curiosity I looked back over my last 5 or 6 runs and they were all around 145 BPM average. Now, that's average. I do a lot of interval and tempo work, so my HR will go from 130 to 170 but at the end of almost all my runs I'm right around 145 so that sounds about right.

I'm the same age as you (36 y/o but 37 in triathlon years). I think the idea is that you will eventually run faster at the same HR.
2015-07-22 9:08 PM
in reply to: 3mar


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Subject: RE: Heart rate Question
Originally posted by 3mar

Out of curiosity I looked back over my last 5 or 6 runs and they were all around 145 BPM average. Now, that's average. I do a lot of interval and tempo work, so my HR will go from 130 to 170 but at the end of almost all my runs I'm right around 145 so that sounds about right.

I'm the same age as you (36 y/o but 37 in triathlon years). I think the idea is that you will eventually run faster at the same HR.


This, you will get faster given the same heart rate as your fitness increases. Your paying the coach for advice so probably best to listen to him and keep faith.
2015-07-22 11:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate Question
thanks for all of the replies! I was having a short term mental breakdown making such a huge change in how I was training but I already feel a difference and have shaved some time off in just a couple runs... I have to keep reminding myself I am not training to run a half marathon, I am training to run a half marathon after swimming 1.2 miles a and riding 56...going to be a lot of run considering this will be my first tri ever, go big or go home I guess!!

Edited by run forest run 2015-07-22 11:24 PM
2015-07-23 8:17 AM
in reply to: ziggie204

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Subject: RE: Heart rate Question

Originally posted by ziggie204
Originally posted by 3mar Out of curiosity I looked back over my last 5 or 6 runs and they were all around 145 BPM average. Now, that's average. I do a lot of interval and tempo work, so my HR will go from 130 to 170 but at the end of almost all my runs I'm right around 145 so that sounds about right. I'm the same age as you (36 y/o but 37 in triathlon years). I think the idea is that you will eventually run faster at the same HR.
This, you will get faster given the same heart rate as your fitness increases. Your paying the coach for advice so probably best to listen to him and keep faith.
BUT, what if the "145" is at the low end of the bell curve.  Granted in the OP case 145 bpm may work, for now.  But if someone new with a fitness background (e.g. running only or riding only) comes on this forum and is beginning to use a HRM and reads this thread and sees "180-age", cool good to go.  In reality maybe, maybe not.  In my example it results in 130, which I can achieve this in the FL summer mowing my jungle yard!  My LTHR Z2 range based field testing is 150 to 160.  I'm sorry 130 is just plain ineffective training for me.   My running HR LT test average has barely changed in the 10 years of using that method (174-177), where as the 180-age has me decreasing my training zones 10bpm as I have aged.

LTHR method removes the maybe, maybe not aspect.  If fitness level allows, IMHO (and coach Ricci) LTHR is the better method to use.

2015-07-23 8:47 AM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Heart rate Question
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by ziggie204
Originally posted by 3mar Out of curiosity I looked back over my last 5 or 6 runs and they were all around 145 BPM average. Now, that's average. I do a lot of interval and tempo work, so my HR will go from 130 to 170 but at the end of almost all my runs I'm right around 145 so that sounds about right. I'm the same age as you (36 y/o but 37 in triathlon years). I think the idea is that you will eventually run faster at the same HR.
This, you will get faster given the same heart rate as your fitness increases. Your paying the coach for advice so probably best to listen to him and keep faith.
BUT, what if the "145" is at the low end of the bell curve.  Granted in the OP case 145 bpm may work, for now.  But if someone new with a fitness background (e.g. running only or riding only) comes on this forum and is beginning to use a HRM and reads this thread and sees "180-age", cool good to go.  In reality maybe, maybe not.  In my example it results in 130, which I can achieve this in the FL summer mowing my jungle yard!  My LTHR Z2 range based field testing is 150 to 160.  I'm sorry 130 is just plain ineffective training for me.   My running HR LT test average has barely changed in the 10 years of using that method (174-177), where as the 180-age has me decreasing my training zones 10bpm as I have aged.

LTHR method removes the maybe, maybe not aspect.  If fitness level allows, IMHO (and coach Ricci) LTHR is the better method to use.




I'm assuming the coach knows more about the OP than just his age. Again I am making an assumption, but he is probably taking into account his age, weight, athletic background, average temperature(and humidity) where he is running, and looking at performance data.

What he has the OP doing seems reasonable to me.


2015-07-23 8:55 AM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Heart rate Question
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by ziggie204
Originally posted by 3mar Out of curiosity I looked back over my last 5 or 6 runs and they were all around 145 BPM average. Now, that's average. I do a lot of interval and tempo work, so my HR will go from 130 to 170 but at the end of almost all my runs I'm right around 145 so that sounds about right. I'm the same age as you (36 y/o but 37 in triathlon years). I think the idea is that you will eventually run faster at the same HR.
This, you will get faster given the same heart rate as your fitness increases. Your paying the coach for advice so probably best to listen to him and keep faith.
BUT, what if the "145" is at the low end of the bell curve.  Granted in the OP case 145 bpm may work, for now.  But if someone new with a fitness background (e.g. running only or riding only) comes on this forum and is beginning to use a HRM and reads this thread and sees "180-age", cool good to go.  In reality maybe, maybe not.  In my example it results in 130, which I can achieve this in the FL summer mowing my jungle yard!  My LTHR Z2 range based field testing is 150 to 160.  I'm sorry 130 is just plain ineffective training for me.   My running HR LT test average has barely changed in the 10 years of using that method (174-177), where as the 180-age has me decreasing my training zones 10bpm as I have aged.

LTHR method removes the maybe, maybe not aspect.  If fitness level allows, IMHO (and coach Ricci) LTHR is the better method to use.




I don't disagree, however in the case of the OP this is a good start. Getting more miles in is a necessity. I cannot imagine trying to do a half on 10-12 miles/week. Looking only at the OP, this is probably a good place to start. Of course, completing a test would help target the exact HR rather than ballpark the number.
2015-07-23 9:12 AM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Heart rate Question
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by ziggie204
Originally posted by 3mar Out of curiosity I looked back over my last 5 or 6 runs and they were all around 145 BPM average. Now, that's average. I do a lot of interval and tempo work, so my HR will go from 130 to 170 but at the end of almost all my runs I'm right around 145 so that sounds about right. I'm the same age as you (36 y/o but 37 in triathlon years). I think the idea is that you will eventually run faster at the same HR.
This, you will get faster given the same heart rate as your fitness increases. Your paying the coach for advice so probably best to listen to him and keep faith.
BUT, what if the "145" is at the low end of the bell curve.  Granted in the OP case 145 bpm may work, for now.  But if someone new with a fitness background (e.g. running only or riding only) comes on this forum and is beginning to use a HRM and reads this thread and sees "180-age", cool good to go.  In reality maybe, maybe not.  In my example it results in 130, which I can achieve this in the FL summer mowing my jungle yard!  My LTHR Z2 range based field testing is 150 to 160.  I'm sorry 130 is just plain ineffective training for me.   My running HR LT test average has barely changed in the 10 years of using that method (174-177), where as the 180-age has me decreasing my training zones 10bpm as I have aged.

LTHR method removes the maybe, maybe not aspect.  If fitness level allows, IMHO (and coach Ricci) LTHR is the better method to use.




I think we need to look at averages vs peaks. The OP isn't doing any speed work or anything (at least that is my assumption given the instructions from the coach) so his average HR can be his goal HR for the entire workout. As you get more fit, you can go faster at that average, and then start mixing it up.

I did a 5 mile interval run yesterday and my average HR was 148. I averaged a 7:20 pace including the warm up and cool down with 7 x 400 intervals ranging from 5:50-6:20 pace. On the intervals I was up around 160 and during the rest periods, down around 130. The warm up and cool down were both high 130's. I was totally spent after and still maintained that average. If I was going to just go out and run a straight 7 miles, then my average would also probably be my max, which looking back is about 145 for an 8:00MM. So it's just how you're looking at it. A max at 145 seems way low, unless you're doing a steady state workout.
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