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2015-07-28 10:57 AM
in reply to: #5131531


439
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nashville, Tennessee
Subject: RE: Offseason gains
I've looked at both plans. The sweet spot plan is recommended if you don't have as much time before your race and you are looking for quicker and i assume more moderate gains. Traditional base plan is when your race is still a long time away and you want to spend the time to get a more "thorough" base that will lead to bigger gains down the road.


2015-07-28 11:13 AM
in reply to: mchadcota2

Master
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: Offseason gains

You don't have to take their descriptions as holy scripture. They're just trying to be helpful.

2015-07-28 11:13 AM
in reply to: #5131553


439
10010010010025
nashville, Tennessee
Subject: RE: Offseason gains
My main question was about whether or not you can try hard during the winter to try to increase your FTP. Because I read a lot about peaking too early and that you don't wanna kill it in the offseason cuz you'll burn out blah blah. So I was just trying to get some opinions and reasoning
2015-07-28 11:17 AM
in reply to: mchadcota2

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Expert
2355
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Madison, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Offseason gains
Originally posted by mchadcota2

My main question was about whether or not you can try hard during the winter to try to increase your FTP. Because I read a lot about peaking too early and that you don't wanna kill it in the offseason cuz you'll burn out blah blah. So I was just trying to get some opinions and reasoning


Yes many people peak too early or get burnt out, but its not because they are trying to increase their FTP. It is because they have either never rested from last year, put in too much volume/intensity with all three sports, or have no other hobbies . For some its one, for others its all of the above.

People burn out and peak too early because they fear taking off one week will be a detriment to their training and they will lose "fitness".
2015-07-28 11:17 AM
in reply to: 0

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Champion
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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Offseason gains
Originally posted by mchadcota2

I've looked at both plans. The sweet spot plan is recommended if you don't have as much time before your race and you are looking for quicker and i assume more moderate gains.


Why would you assume that?

Traditional base plan is when your race is still a long time away and you want to spend the time to get a more "thorough" base that will lead to bigger gains down the road.


What is a more thorough base?

Unless you are throwing huge hours at your training (just to throw numbers out there - say at least 10 hours per week in the saddle and more than likely more will be required) then you'll want more intensity than just riding along.

You are certainly free to spend a bunch of time going easy but assuming some basic cycling fitness, there are much better ways to spend your time (assuming you want to get faster).

Shane

Edited by gsmacleod 2015-07-28 11:19 AM
2015-07-28 11:22 AM
in reply to: mchadcota2

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: Offseason gains

Originally posted by mchadcota2 My main question was about whether or not you can try hard during the winter to try to increase your FTP. Because I read a lot about peaking too early and that you don't wanna kill it in the offseason cuz you'll burn out blah blah. So I was just trying to get some opinions and reasoning

Peaking is more developing the race specific fitness mentioned earlier. What you're trying to do outside of the competition season is raise your entire fitness up. That's why you're hitting around all areas. The peak is built off of this. You get a higher peak off of a larger base, though do note that base here refers to the entire fitness, not just easy work. So get your aerobic fitness up a lot during the off-season and put in the race specific in the weeks leading into the race. FTP tends to do a really good job of tracking aerobic fitness for a singular point.

Burn-out is more with the overall size of the training load getting to be too much.



2015-07-28 11:22 AM
in reply to: #5131327


439
10010010010025
nashville, Tennessee
Subject: RE: Offseason gains
Thanks Shane. What is a more thorough base is a question I'd love to hear the answer to. Makes no sense to me. I have no desire to spend long slow hours in the saddle so I'm all about the higher intensity. Just wanted to make sure it made sense
2015-07-28 11:24 AM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Offseason gains
Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by mchadcota2

My main question was about whether or not you can try hard during the winter to try to increase your FTP. Because I read a lot about peaking too early and that you don't wanna kill it in the offseason cuz you'll burn out blah blah. So I was just trying to get some opinions and reasoning


Yes many people peak too early or get burnt out, but its not because they are trying to increase their FTP. It is because they have either never rested from last year, put in too much volume/intensity with all three sports, or have no other hobbies . For some its one, for others its all of the above.

People burn out and peak too early because they fear taking off one week will be a detriment to their training and they will lose "fitness".


IME I think it is much more often burnout than really peaking too early as well; there are certainly some people who peak early and then see a gradual decline but in most cases they're fatigued and bored with the drudgery of endurance training so back off leading to a decline. Often nothing that a good mid-season break can't address provided the athlete is willing to slow down enough to recharge.

Shane

2015-07-28 11:40 AM
in reply to: mchadcota2

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: Offseason gains

Originally posted by mchadcota2 Thanks Shane. What is a more thorough base is a question I'd love to hear the answer to. Makes no sense to me. I have no desire to spend long slow hours in the saddle so I'm all about the higher intensity. Just wanted to make sure it made sense

The "base" is what you're going to build the race specifics off of. It often includes lots of time and miles, but is not limited to that. It's a base of fitness and in endurance sports (eg, all of triathlon) that's going to be dominated by your aerobic fitness. So it includes everything up to your VO2max, as that is the upper limit of aerobic performance.

2015-07-28 12:15 PM
in reply to: mchadcota2

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Subject: RE: Offseason gains
Originally posted by mchadcota2

Trainerroad has you doing only lower intensity aerobic work for the first 4 weeks of the base phase. After that they start incorporating some higher intensity stuff. If you were training for sprint distance, would you ever have a 4 week block where you only did low intensity? I personally feel like if I spent the winter doing shorter sessions trying to increase my VO2 max, then closer to race time I did a 4 week block of lower intensity longer rides, I would lose a lot of speed leading up to race.


Interesting discussion. I also use TrainerRoad and used the Traditional Base training plan last winter. I did see a gain in FTP even when I was doing the high-volume, low-intensity, base I plan. It may or may not be the same for you - I'm sure it depends on your current level of fitness.

TrainerRoad has a brief blog on the subject (http://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/201881244-Picking-the-Right-Plan). It starts by saying "Most riders are going to be best served starting with our Sweet Spot Base Plans." The sweet spot base has some moderate intensity from the very beginning. Only their traditional Base I plan is exclusively focused on aerobic endurance, and they apparently don't recommend that for most riders.

If you feel you have a sufficient fitness base, there is nothing keeping you from starting with a build plan. I believe Endurance Nation recommends this for their athletes that have just completed an Ironman, but they don't take several weeks off. After a break of several weeks, it seems like some sort of base conditioning would be wise.
2015-07-28 8:20 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Madison, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Offseason gains
Originally posted by gsmacleod

Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by mchadcota2

My main question was about whether or not you can try hard during the winter to try to increase your FTP. Because I read a lot about peaking too early and that you don't wanna kill it in the offseason cuz you'll burn out blah blah. So I was just trying to get some opinions and reasoning


Yes many people peak too early or get burnt out, but its not because they are trying to increase their FTP. It is because they have either never rested from last year, put in too much volume/intensity with all three sports, or have no other hobbies . For some its one, for others its all of the above.

People burn out and peak too early because they fear taking off one week will be a detriment to their training and they will lose "fitness".


IME I think it is much more often burnout than really peaking too early as well; there are certainly some people who peak early and then see a gradual decline but in most cases they're fatigued and bored with the drudgery of endurance training so back off leading to a decline. Often nothing that a good mid-season break can't address provided the athlete is willing to slow down enough to recharge.

Shane




Agreed 4-7 days off in the middle of the season can do a lot mentally and physically.


2015-08-10 8:58 AM
in reply to: EchoLkScott

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Subject: RE: Offseason gains
Like many have already said, the most important things to consider are available time to train (both per day, and total days until your key events), and goals. This is one of my favorite articles on planning out a year of training/racing, and goes into periodization and plan selection. Check it out: Plans and Race Periodization

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Professional Mtb Racer & Community Manager at TrainerRoad - Cycling's Most Effective Training Tool
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