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2015-07-29 10:27 AM

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Durham, North Carolina
Subject: Speed/Tempo training ideas
I never grew up around track so I don't know what to do for this. I'm only around 25 MPW right now and trying to do the Barry P plan + bike and swim training for an oly. Almost all of my runs are hilly trail runs, but I do have access to a track. My paces have been around 10 min/mile, but that's according to the barry p plan and I haven't been pushing those.


2015-07-29 10:50 AM
in reply to: Lupy

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Subject: RE: Speed/Tempo training ideas

In the past for For pace related training I've used McMillan's run calculator and also used training plans from Runnerworld SmartCoach that provided guidance for Tempo and interval workouts.

2015-07-29 10:51 AM
in reply to: Lupy

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Subject: RE: Speed/Tempo training ideas
Are you still building volume in the BarryP plan?

Shane
2015-07-29 11:07 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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409
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Durham, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Speed/Tempo training ideas
Originally posted by gsmacleod

Are you still building volume in the BarryP plan?

Shane


No. I have my long run around where I want it for now. Every now and then I plan on switching out my speed day for a longer long run. I know some people would say just keep adding more mileage, but I don't really want to add any more time to my run training right now.
2015-07-29 11:25 AM
in reply to: Lupy

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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Speed/Tempo training ideas
Originally posted by Lupy

Originally posted by gsmacleod

Are you still building volume in the BarryP plan?

Shane


No. I have my long run around where I want it for now. Every now and then I plan on switching out my speed day for a longer long run. I know some people would say just keep adding more mileage, but I don't really want to add any more time to my run training right now.


I assume then that you are doing ~3x2.5 miles, 2x5miles and 1x7.5miles? How long before you are looking at a key race and what distance(s) are you looking at?

Shane
2015-07-29 11:59 AM
in reply to: Lupy

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Subject: RE: Speed/Tempo training ideas

Are you moving from phase 1 to phase 2 ?    I'm not a runner but I can say I've had success the last year with Barry P's plan.  My mistake was not reading all the threads on it even though I copied and pasted them together.  I saw some gains just from going to 5/6 days a week at an easy pace.  That was around a 9:15 - 9:30 / m.  That got me to a post injury(pre Barry P) late season sprint last year PR on the run, low 8's.  Once I realized there was a phase 2 I started running one day working to mid 8's.  I kept that constant for a couple months and then switched one of my shorter runs to a race pace run (phase 3).  That's around 7:30 - 7:45 pace right now.   Just recently I switched and started alternating the race pace run to a track workout.   The track workouts are at a 6-6:30 pace.  But I am guessing at the track stuff right now.  The only thing I think I could say for sure is gradually build the speed workouts.  I "think" according to Barry's plan you should start replacing one run with a tempo run.  Then after a couple months add the race specific runs in which is when I started the track stuff.  Choosing the paces for me was a lot on feel, still is.    I think one of the tenants of Barry's plan is you are only as good as your next run?



2015-07-29 11:59 AM
in reply to: 0

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Durham, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Speed/Tempo training ideas
Originally posted by gsmacleod

Originally posted by Lupy

Originally posted by gsmacleod

Are you still building volume in the BarryP plan?

Shane


No. I have my long run around where I want it for now. Every now and then I plan on switching out my speed day for a longer long run. I know some people would say just keep adding more mileage, but I don't really want to add any more time to my run training right now.


I assume then that you are doing ~3x2.5 miles, 2x5miles and 1x7.5miles? How long before you are looking at a key race and what distance(s) are you looking at?

Shane

Ya those numbers are right. I'm training for any Oly on sept 12.

Edited by Lupy 2015-07-29 12:00 PM
2015-07-29 12:12 PM
in reply to: Goggles Pizzano

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409
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Durham, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Speed/Tempo training ideas
Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano

Are you moving from phase 1 to phase 2 ?    I'm not a runner but I can say I've had success the last year with Barry P's plan.  My mistake was not reading all the threads on it even though I copied and pasted them together.  I saw some gains just from going to 5/6 days a week at an easy pace.  That was around a 9:15 - 9:30 / m.  That got me to a post injury(pre Barry P) late season sprint last year PR on the run, low 8's.  Once I realized there was a phase 2 I started running one day working to mid 8's.  I kept that constant for a couple months and then switched one of my shorter runs to a race pace run (phase 3).  That's around 7:30 - 7:45 pace right now.   Just recently I switched and started alternating the race pace run to a track workout.   The track workouts are at a 6-6:30 pace.  But I am guessing at the track stuff right now.  The only thing I think I could say for sure is gradually build the speed workouts.  I "think" according to Barry's plan you should start replacing one run with a tempo run.  Then after a couple months add the race specific runs in which is when I started the track stuff.  Choosing the paces for me was a lot on feel, still is.    I think one of the tenants of Barry's plan is you are only as good as your next run?




Yes, I'm moving to phase 2. My problem with picking a pace and sticking to it are all of the hills here. I just moved from FL to NC so I'm not used to it (totally kicking my butt on the bike too!). Would you just try to hold your flat grounds pace RPE or HR up the hills or hold the pace too?

Also whats the best way to find your race pace? Should I go out and do a track 5k or something? I haven't raced in forever, but last year my sprint 5k was 8:20.
2015-07-29 12:37 PM
in reply to: Lupy

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Subject: RE: Speed/Tempo training ideas

I live in a hilly area.  Mostly went by RPE on the tempo runs.  I started picking up the pace on the tempo run slowly and stopped at a point which I could still comfortable run the next day.   I tracked it on a training log and worked from there.   I don't really know much about HR running other then when I wear a monitor my HR is always high.  If I can find where I saved the doc with all the threads I see if it says anything about finding a race pace. 

2015-07-29 1:45 PM
in reply to: Lupy

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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Speed/Tempo training ideas
Originally posted by Lupy

Ya those numbers are right. I'm training for any Oly on sept 12.


I would take one 5 mile run and do this:

1.5 miles easy (maybe some strides/drills)
2 miles at T pace (use Daniels VDOT to figure this out - http://runbayou.com/jackd.htm)
1.5 miles easy

This assumes you feel ready to do 2 miles continuous and that the pace would take roughly 15 minutes. Then you can build up to about 20-25minutes - either continuous or broken (like 4x1km or similar). Threshold running will be your bread and butter hard workout for short course racing as it should be close to the pace you target off the bike.

Beyond that, I would keep things simple as far as harder efforts on the run - say 6-8x30s at 5k pace with 2:00 easy between or something like 5-10x30s faster than 5k pace (roughly I pace from Daniels) 30s easy.

Shane
2015-07-29 3:05 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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409
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Durham, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Speed/Tempo training ideas
Originally posted by gsmacleod

Originally posted by Lupy

Ya those numbers are right. I'm training for any Oly on sept 12.


6-8x30s at 5k pace with 2:00 easy between or something like 5-10x30s faster than 5k pace (roughly I pace from Daniels) 30s easy.

Shane


is that 30 seconds?


2015-07-29 3:17 PM
in reply to: Lupy

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Subject: RE: Speed/Tempo training ideas
Originally posted by Lupy

is that 30 seconds?


Yes - I should have also mentioned that the 30s/30s would be a harder workout by itself while the 30s with 2:00 easy would be something you can do in an easy run for a bit of intensity without much extra recovery.

Shane
2015-07-29 3:20 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Speed/Tempo training ideas
Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by LupyYa those numbers are right. I'm training for any Oly on sept 12.
I would take one 5 mile run and do this:1.5 miles easy (maybe some strides/drills)2 miles at T pace (use Daniels VDOT to figure this out - http://runbayou.com/jackd.htm)1.5miles easyThis assumes you feel ready to do 2 miles continuous and that the pace would take roughly 15 minutes. Then you can build up to about 20-25minutes - either continuous or broken (like 4x1km or similar). Threshold running will be your bread and butter hard workout for short course racing as it should be close to the pace you target off the bike. Beyond that, I would keep things simple as far as harder efforts on the run - say 6-8x30s at 5k pace with 2:00 easy between or something like 5-10x30s faster than 5k pace (roughly I pace from Daniels) 30s easy. Shane
This is exactly what I did training for my Oly last year...really focused on nailing that tempo (Daniels T pace - for me 7:30) run. I built it up to 10% of my weekly volume, starting with the intervals Shane suggested (like 3 x 1k, :30 recovery) and by the end could hold that pace for about 20 minutes. I also sprinkled in some faster stuff here and there but not a lot of volume. Feel free to look at my logs from March-May of 2014 if you're interested in the details.I PR'd every distance I raced using it (5K, 10K) and came in a little over 50 minutes on the run leg of the Oly.
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