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First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy
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 2015-08-02 11:14 AM |
 33 |  Subject: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategyI'm doing my first tri in two weeks. I come from a swimming background (swam competitively for 12 years) and I've been doing Master Swimming 3 days a week since January (after many many years away from swimming - while I'm not back to that form, I can keep a 1:20 /100Y pace easily). I mountain bike and road bike regularly (though I'm not particularly fast or anything). The reason I've never done a tri before is I am NOT a runner. I started with the couch to 5K program in January and I can easily make the distance, but I'm embarrassingly slow (best pace I can muster is 10:15, but I'm usually around 11 in most of my "runs"). The distance for this tri is: 400M swim 15 mile bike 2.5 mile run My only real goal is finishing with something that resembles a run by the time I hit the finish line. However, I would like to get the best time I'm capable of. I'm going to push the swim, but do I push the bike and just do what I can or do I take it a little bit easy on the bike to ensure a decent running pace? With a sprint distance, I'm thinking I'm just going to go as fast as I can as far as I can. If I have to slow jog it in for the run so be it. What do you experts think? Thanks! |
| 2015-08-02 11:39 AM in reply to: stipey169 |
| 13 | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy I think you can push both the bike and the swim. But do some training on the bike to run portion. You'll want to experiment with how to stretch your legs on the bike as you come into transition, especially if you push hard on the bike. Also focus on your transition times. You can shave some time there to make up for a slower run. I'm a bit of slow swimmer so I try to make up my times in transition, bike and run. |
| 2015-08-02 11:57 AM in reply to: citiznkain |
15 Norfolk, Virginia | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy You should go all out the whole race. With your background, the swim will be a piece of cake. Ride hard, and you then you just have a relatively short run to tackle. You'll be fine. A sprint will be over before you know it! |
| 2015-08-02 12:03 PM in reply to: stipey169 |
Champion 9407   Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy With some swim background, I would aim to go at about your 800m effort for the swim. Then the bike you can go at a moderate intensity and then run the best you can after that. For your first, the key is finishing and learning as much as you can about racing a triathlon. In future races you can focus on where you can go harder in order to improve your time. Especially since running is your weakest sport and you want to finish strong, moderation on the swim and bike will be key. Shane |
| 2015-08-02 12:14 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
928 | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy Originally posted by gsmacleod With some swim background, I would aim to go at about your 800m effort for the swim. Then the bike you can go at a moderate intensity and then run the best you can after that. For your first, the key is finishing and learning as much as you can about racing a triathlon. In future races you can focus on where you can go harder in order to improve your time. Especially since running is your weakest sport and you want to finish strong, moderation on the swim and bike will be key. Shane +1 to all this. When people say "go all out for the whole race" (as in the previous post), this doesn't make sense to me, unless they mean, "go as fast as you can go while still being able to go strong on the next leg." That is key, which means holding a bit back on the swim and bike so that you can finish the run without walking. Even experienced runners find that they are reduced to a very slow run pace if they push too hard earlier in the race. |
| 2015-08-02 12:49 PM in reply to: jennifer_runs |
| 33 | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy Thanks for the great insight, everyone! I'm really looking forward to it (if not quite a bit nervous). A 400m swim will be nothing for me so I plan on pushing it hard and put a good time up, try and have a nice consistent pace on the bike so that I don't have to walk any of the run. My problem is I'm overly competitive compared to my actual athletic ability so I'll have to make a conscious effort to not push the bike. ;-) Hopefully the adrenaline will help me have a decent pace on the run. I've been doing bike/run workouts to get used to the feeling of going from one to another - I just haven't done the same distance yet. Each time I feel a little better but my run after bike has been slower than when I just run. |
| 2015-08-02 3:32 PM in reply to: stipey169 |
Regular 134 Oregon | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy I held back a little bit on the bike in my first 3 triathlons, then really pushed the last half of the run and felt like I still had more in the tank. I was disappointed that I hadn't put more into the bike. So, I changed my strategy in my last 2 triathlons I went for it on the bike. in one of them where the bike course was flat, I had my personal best bike and my personal best run (not just in time, but also in pack placement). In the other one, the bike course was hilly....but I still went for it and had a fairly crappy run time. It was no problem to finish the run and I didn't have to walk....but my pace was like a full minute longer than a typical training day. so I guess if I had to boil it down to a piece of advice I'd say "Hills can fry your legs". |
| 2015-08-02 5:39 PM in reply to: themissj1981 |
| 33 | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy Originally posted by themissj1981 I held back a little bit on the bike in my first 3 triathlons, then really pushed the last half of the run and felt like I still had more in the tank. I was disappointed that I hadn't put more into the bike. So, I changed my strategy in my last 2 triathlons I went for it on the bike. in one of them where the bike course was flat, I had my personal best bike and my personal best run (not just in time, but also in pack placement). In the other one, the bike course was hilly....but I still went for it and had a fairly crappy run time. It was no problem to finish the run and I didn't have to walk....but my pace was like a full minute longer than a typical training day. so I guess if I had to boil it down to a piece of advice I'd say "Hills can fry your legs". The course I'm doing is fairly hilly with a fairly significant hill right at the end of the bike segment (the hill ends at transition which kinda sucks, I think). What do you all think of doing the actual course route (sans swimming) 1 week before the actual event? I kinda want to see what it is like so there won't be any surprises. Thoughts? |
| 2015-08-02 5:49 PM in reply to: stipey169 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy Originally posted by stipey169 The course I'm doing is fairly hilly with a fairly significant hill right at the end of the bike segment (the hill ends at transition which kinda sucks, I think). What do you all think of doing the actual course route (sans swimming) 1 week before the actual event? I kinda want to see what it is like so there won't be any surprises. Thoughts? If you can easily get to the course, then doing a ride through and a bit of a run a week out is probably a good idea. You can likely ride at or close to race effort but I would keep the run fairly easy, especially if you do the whole thing. A great chance to get the lay of the land and see how you feel off a solid bike effort. However, I once again caution going too hard on the swim. As a former swimmer, the temptation is strong but in a ~1 hour race with a 400m(y?) swim, saving a minute on the swim could easily cost you more than a minute on the ride and reduce you to a walk on the run. You can go at a solid effort but there is no sense in pushing hard in your first race. Shane |
| 2015-08-02 6:58 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
| 33 | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by stipey169 The course I'm doing is fairly hilly with a fairly significant hill right at the end of the bike segment (the hill ends at transition which kinda sucks, I think). What do you all think of doing the actual course route (sans swimming) 1 week before the actual event? I kinda want to see what it is like so there won't be any surprises. Thoughts? If you can easily get to the course, then doing a ride through and a bit of a run a week out is probably a good idea. You can likely ride at or close to race effort but I would keep the run fairly easy, especially if you do the whole thing. A great chance to get the lay of the land and see how you feel off a solid bike effort. However, I once again caution going too hard on the swim. As a former swimmer, the temptation is strong but in a ~1 hour race with a 400m(y?) swim, saving a minute on the swim could easily cost you more than a minute on the ride and reduce you to a walk on the run. You can go at a solid effort but there is no sense in pushing hard in your first race. Shane Thanks Shane. I appreciate the advice. I was thinking I could pretty much sprint the 400M and not have it impact the rest of my race but it looks like that is the wrong thinking. I'll ramp it down a bit on the swim to make sure I don't toast myself for the other two segments. Worst case, I'll have enough juice left to "sprint" to the finish. :-) |
| 2015-08-02 7:17 PM in reply to: stipey169 |
| 360 Ottawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy I'll add my 2 cents - my goal in my most recent sprint was to improve on my run. I'm strongest and most confident on the bike so previously had been hammering it pretty hard and crushing dreams on that leg, only to have a good number of those people pass me again on the run. So for my last race I held back a little on the bike in hopes I could run better. The result: slower bike split and pretty much the same run split as last time, resulting in an overall slower time. For sprint distance I feel like you can go all out without sacrificing the run, or at least that's my takeaway from saturday's experiment. At longer distance I think you have to pace more conservatively but in a 1 hour race it's just "Give'r" the whole way. |
| 2015-08-02 9:06 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Veteran 576 Maple Grove | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by stipey169 The course I'm doing is fairly hilly with a fairly significant hill right at the end of the bike segment (the hill ends at transition which kinda sucks, I think). What do you all think of doing the actual course route (sans swimming) 1 week before the actual event? I kinda want to see what it is like so there won't be any surprises. Thoughts? If you can easily get to the course, then doing a ride through and a bit of a run a week out is probably a good idea. You can likely ride at or close to race effort but I would keep the run fairly easy, especially if you do the whole thing. A great chance to get the lay of the land and see how you feel off a solid bike effort. However, I once again caution going too hard on the swim. As a former swimmer, the temptation is strong but in a ~1 hour race with a 400m(y?) swim, saving a minute on the swim could easily cost you more than a minute on the ride and reduce you to a walk on the run. You can go at a solid effort but there is no sense in pushing hard in your first race. Shane Great advice as always, Shane! The difference in effort for 1:20 vs 1:30 per 100 is probably fairly substantial, and on a course this short you'll save 40 seconds. A slow (winded out of the water, walking, etc) transition could wipe out that difference entirely. Practicing a solid bike to run will give the best bang for the buck. |
| 2015-08-03 9:31 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy Originally posted by gsmacleod With some swim background, I would aim to go at about your 800m effort for the swim. Then the bike you can go at a moderate intensity and then run the best you can after that. For your first, the key is finishing and learning as much as you can about racing a triathlon. In future races you can focus on where you can go harder in order to improve your time. Especially since running is your weakest sport and you want to finish strong, moderation on the swim and bike will be key. Shane I agree on the first race - just go and see how it feels, and then you will know how to prepare to another. When I did my first Sprint I had a similar concern when I was biking: should I go faster or should I save an energy for running? I decided to save the legs, and the run part was not that hard. But I am a runner, so it's different. Although, you will have 2.5 mile, so you should be fine. 10 minutes is not a bad pace  Keep practicing transition from bike to run - my legs felt like iron legs when I jumped off the bike. Also, when I was running it felt really slow, I thought I must have been running at 15 minutes/mile, and it ended up being below 10. So focus on staying positive I'm sure you'll do great, keep us posted! Mary |
| 2015-08-03 1:57 PM in reply to: marysia83 |
| 33 | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy I agree on the first race - just go and see how it feels, and then you will know how to prepare to another. When I did my first Sprint I had a similar concern when I was biking: should I go faster or should I save an energy for running? I decided to save the legs, and the run part was not that hard. But I am a runner, so it's different. Although, you will have 2.5 mile, so you should be fine. 10 minutes is not a bad pace Keep practicing transition from bike to run - my legs felt like iron legs when I jumped off the bike. Also, when I was running it felt really slow, I thought I must have been running at 15 minutes/mile, and it ended up being below 10. So focus on staying positive I'm sure you'll do great, keep us posted! Mary Thanks for the encouragement, Mary! If my actual pace has a 10:xx in it I will be thrilled! Heck, if it was 11:XX I'll be ok. The only thing that bugs me is that would put me well DFL on the run for my age group (40-44). It seems like the 40's groups happens to be some of the most competitive times. If I like it and keep it up, I'm going to have to focus hard on improving my running. I'll let you all know how it goes! |
| 2015-08-04 8:17 AM in reply to: stipey169 |
| 33 | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy I didn't want to start another thread, but I have some more training type questions... Other than doing the couch to 5K program starting in January and finishing in April, I haven't done much in the way of structured training. My race is August 22 and I'm really not happy with my run pace. I'm kinda thinking it is too late to really improve my run pace for this race but should I modify the week/days before the actual event? With a sprint, do I really need to taper? Here is what I do each week (it does vary slightly week-to-week depending on work, soccer practice for the kids, etc) Swimming: 1 hour Master Swims (usually around 3K yards per workout, so 9K per week) 3 times per week (T, TH, S) Biking: mix of mountain (which I do for fun) and road riding - usually about 2 times per week for about 30-50 miles per week total (in hindsight I should have rode more) Running: 2-3 miles, 3 x a week (M W F) so usually 6-8 miles per week total (sad, I know). No interval workouts or anything - just running my regular pace. Sundays are off days or I will go for a 15-25 mile ride. I've thrown a few bricks here and there as well (several of them I bike to the pool and bike back, and I've done 3 bike/runs). I plan on doing a bike/run this weekend, and the Saturday before my race they are having a swim practice so I'm going to also do the actual bike and run course (sort of a practice if you will). Any thoughts on changing the routine up to improve on running (in particular)? I plan on adding a short-ish ride each week so that I'm riding at least 3x per week, too. Should I ramp down the running and biking the week leading up to the event? Note: my focus is on swimming as I'm thinking I want to reach Master's Nationals qualifying times in a couple of events and swim in some meets (plus I really enjoy the Master Swimming) so I'm not going to cut that down at all (although I may ease up during the workouts themselves the week leading up to the race). Any thoughts/suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks! |
| 2015-08-04 8:30 AM in reply to: stipey169 |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy Originally posted by stipey169 I didn't want to start another thread, but I have some more training type questions... Other than doing the couch to 5K program starting in January and finishing in April, I haven't done much in the way of structured training. My race is August 22 and I'm really not happy with my run pace. I'm kinda thinking it is too late to really improve my run pace for this race but should I modify the week/days before the actual event? With a sprint, do I really need to taper? Here is what I do each week (it does vary slightly week-to-week depending on work, soccer practice for the kids, etc) Swimming: 1 hour Master Swims (usually around 3K yards per workout, so 9K per week) 3 times per week (T, TH, S) Biking: mix of mountain (which I do for fun) and road riding - usually about 2 times per week for about 30-50 miles per week total (in hindsight I should have rode more) Running: 2-3 miles, 3 x a week (M W F) so usually 6-8 miles per week total (sad, I know). No interval workouts or anything - just running my regular pace. Sundays are off days or I will go for a 15-25 mile ride. I've thrown a few bricks here and there as well (several of them I bike to the pool and bike back, and I've done 3 bike/runs). I plan on doing a bike/run this weekend, and the Saturday before my race they are having a swim practice so I'm going to also do the actual bike and run course (sort of a practice if you will). Any thoughts on changing the routine up to improve on running (in particular)? I plan on adding a short-ish ride each week so that I'm riding at least 3x per week, too. Should I ramp down the running and biking the week leading up to the event? Note: my focus is on swimming as I'm thinking I want to reach Master's Nationals qualifying times in a couple of events and swim in some meets (plus I really enjoy the Master Swimming) so I'm not going to cut that down at all (although I may ease up during the workouts themselves the week leading up to the race). Any thoughts/suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks! Don't worry about tapering, just don't do any hard work outs for 2 days before you event you'll be fine. Your not going to do anything at this point to make your run better, so don't worry about it for this event it 2 1/2 weeks away. In the future get you run miles up, your doing 3 days a week now, can you get another day in each week? get your mileage up each day, instead of 2 to 3 go for 4 each day. You will notice a big difference just getting 15-20 miles a week in vs getting 6-8. |
| 2015-08-04 4:22 PM in reply to: stipey169 |
| 6 Pearland, Texas | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy I'm sort of the opposite of you. I'm also fairly new to triathlon, but I come from a running background (marathons) and was a very weak swimmer. Since I'm still very new, a lot of my lessons are fresh, so I'll share what I've learned in my first few sprints. The biggest piece of advice I can give you is to gather yourself coming out of both transitions. The start of the bike and the start of the run are the two points in the race where my heart rate seems to spike highest. In my first sprint I paid little attention to perceived exertion and just hammered out of T1. The result was my heart rate never stabilizing on the bike and feeling pretty wiped out by the start of the run. In my second sprint I relaxed more out of T1 and let my heart rate come down to a manageable bpm before starting to pour it on. But I still screwed up and pushed too hard out of T2 and was pretty gassed for the last mile of a 5k, resulting in a positive split. By the third event I got it figured out. I took it pretty easy out of T1 and T2, and this produced the best results. I was tempted to go harder out of T2 but fought it. A few people that came in behind me on the bike passed me in the first 1/2-mile of the 5k, but I let them go. Once my heart rate got to where I wanted it to be, I started pushing the pace. By mile 2.5 I had passed those that jumped me at the beginning of the run and was slowly picking off those who got on the run course ahead of me. I also had a solid 1/4-mile kick left in me at the end. Coming from a strictly running background, the pacing aspect of triathlon has been the biggest puzzle to figure out for me. In a running race I find it fairly easy to negative split and manage my pace and heart rate, but triathlon transitions were beating me up. The crowd is cheering. Your competitors are buzzing around you. You get rushed, hot, maybe a little frantic. Everything in you wants to blast out of transition and go, go, go. Once I managed to reign those feelings in things got much better. |
| 2015-08-04 8:58 PM in reply to: imthejason |
| 471 | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy Come up with a strategy and stick to it. Go hard in the swim, steady on the bike, perhaps the last 1km of the bike pull back on the speed a little so when you exit T2 you are relatively fresh for the run. Start of steady in the run and build, last 2kms should be flat out. You don't want to be a position where you're practically walking part or all the run leg. So the key is too pace yourself on the bike. You may be competitive and not want to get overtaken, but you need to accept that and deal with it. |
| 2015-08-05 3:08 PM in reply to: zedzded |
| 33 | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy Thanks for the great replies, everyone! I've found this to be a great resource with lots of very good info. I'm looking forward to the race and hopefully I can turn of my competitiveness and just soak up the experience and fun and get some good lessons learned. I think I'm going to go with zedzed's advice and go hard on the swim (but not full out sprint), steady on the bike (but not all out sprint), ease into the run and pick up the pace for a nice sprint to the finish and then smile for the cameras as I bask in the glory of completing my first ever triathlon followed by enjoying a cold one. |
| 2015-08-06 8:27 AM in reply to: #5132542 |
| 157 | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy I also come from a swimming background, although I didn't continue competing as an adult and am much slower than you (1:45 100s). My first tri last year had a 300m pool swim, and they asked us to line up by guesstimated swim finish times. That put me very near the FOP, which made me nervous. I went really hard on the swim due to adrenaline, and had a hard time flip turning under the lane lines (snake swim) since Id never done that before. I essentially sprinted the 300, and I was pretty gassed coming into the bike. T1 was like 2:00, because I hadn't practiced putting wet feet into socks before. I'm pretty sure my first couple of miles on the bike were crazy slow, although I recovered a little for the return leg. I felt like I was dragging a ton of bricks behind me by the run. However, I had my best run splits of any pure running race to that point, and won my AG. Not sure what the lesson there is - at the time I wish I would have paced the swim just a little better, and dropped maybe 5s per 100. I think it would have helped my bike quite a bit. Starting out FOP fired my competitive juices really well though, because I didn't want anyone to pass me and biking is my weak sport. Definitely don't take it easy on the swim, just don't get too caught up in the adrenaline of the race and aim for a PR. Good luck and have fun!! |
| 2015-08-22 2:37 PM in reply to: MMW37 |
| 33 | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy The race was today and I would love to tell everyone that I have officially completed my first triathlon. Unfortunately, thunderstorms came in and they cancelled it about mid-way through the bike segment. I still had fun and learned a lot. I did really well in the swim - I won my wave and my time would have given me the fastest time in last year's race) so I'm happy about that. My favorite part was watching the challenge / adventure kids and family members as they went to from the swim to the transition area. They totally soaked in the loud applause and cheers as they went by and the huge smiles on their faces were priceless. I'm not afraid to admit that it brought a tear to my eye. I'm going to see if there are any other sprint tri's that I can do this fall as I'd hate to wait until next season but if I have to, that's ok. At least now I know that I have to work a lot harder on my running. Thanks again for everyone's advice! |
| 2015-08-22 11:30 PM in reply to: stipey169 |
| 98 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy Bummer on the cancellation, but congratulations on making it to the starting line in the first place! Oh, and congrats to CRUSHING the swim! As someone who will never, ever place first in ANY of the 3 events (unless I stick with it until I'm old enough to be the only one in my age group!) I can only imagine that must be an awesome feeling! I hope you can find another race to do this season. It would be nice to be able to validate all that training you've done! |
| 2015-08-23 9:21 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 160 | Subject: RE: First Tri (Sprint). Question on strategy Originally posted by stipey169 My favorite part was watching the challenge / adventure kids and family members as they went to from the swim to the transition area. They totally soaked in the loud applause and cheers as they went by and the huge smiles on their faces were priceless. I'm not afraid to admit that it brought a tear to my eye. I think you discovered one of the part which makes this sport so awesome. Good luck on the next triathlon. Edited by Antoine tri 2015-08-23 9:21 AM |
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