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2015-08-21 12:26 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?

Originally posted by Rogillio In my son's basketball league they had a rule that allowed the opposing teams coach to designate one player on the other team to sit out the 3rd quarter. Both teams would do this. They had this rule because there is always one guy who started playing BB when he was 2 years old and just dominates the court. I thought this was a good rule....becuase my kid was not the one that was told to sit out a quarter.....he was the one they 'had to play at least one quarter'.

THIS ^^  is the kind of thing I am talking about.  How does a rule like that help anyone?  The kid who can really play has to sit, and the kid who can't play gets put in no matter what.  That makes no sense to me. 

In band, do they make the kid who plays first trumpet sit out a couple of numbers so a kid, who can't play "Mary Had A Little Lamb", can sit in when they have a performance?

 



2015-08-21 1:18 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio In my son's basketball league they had a rule that allowed the opposing teams coach to designate one player on the other team to sit out the 3rd quarter. Both teams would do this. They had this rule because there is always one guy who started playing BB when he was 2 years old and just dominates the court. I thought this was a good rule....becuase my kid was not the one that was told to sit out a quarter.....he was the one they 'had to play at least one quarter'.

THIS ^^  is the kind of thing I am talking about.  How does a rule like that help anyone?  The kid who can really play has to sit, and the kid who can't play gets put in no matter what.  That makes no sense to me. 

In band, do they make the kid who plays first trumpet sit out a couple of numbers so a kid, who can't play "Mary Had A Little Lamb", can sit in when they have a performance?

I have no problem with this if they make it clear that its an "everyone plays" league.  If I want my kids in a more competitive league, then I wouldn't sign them up

2015-08-21 1:58 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
Heck when I was in high school we even got participation awards 20 years ago. It was called a freshman numbers, sophomore or varsity letter. Everyone on the team got one at the end of the season regardless how good they were. Even the team managers got one. People even used to put those awards on a jacket to show off how their participation in sports.


2015-08-21 1:58 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio In my son's basketball league they had a rule that allowed the opposing teams coach to designate one player on the other team to sit out the 3rd quarter. Both teams would do this. They had this rule because there is always one guy who started playing BB when he was 2 years old and just dominates the court. I thought this was a good rule....becuase my kid was not the one that was told to sit out a quarter.....he was the one they 'had to play at least one quarter'.

THIS ^^  is the kind of thing I am talking about.  How does a rule like that help anyone?  The kid who can really play has to sit, and the kid who can't play gets put in no matter what.  That makes no sense to me. 

In band, do they make the kid who plays first trumpet sit out a couple of numbers so a kid, who can't play "Mary Had A Little Lamb", can sit in when they have a performance?

 




It depends on the goal of the league. At 2nd grade it should be about building a base and developing as many kids as you can. There are almost always higher level opportunities for better kids.

As mentioned in a previous post my community HS has a number of programs that participate in the state tournament most years. The foundation of this success are youth programs that focus on development, participation, as well as competition.

Boys and girls basketball are the only teams with perennial losing records. Theiy follow a philosophy like you mention above. They end up losing a lot of kids and by HS they have lost so many "good"!players and depth players they have lost the ability to be competive in practice and on the court.

Sometimes the kid who gets all the playing time feels entitled
2015-08-21 2:11 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?

Originally posted by TriJedi
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio In my son's basketball league they had a rule that allowed the opposing teams coach to designate one player on the other team to sit out the 3rd quarter. Both teams would do this. They had this rule because there is always one guy who started playing BB when he was 2 years old and just dominates the court. I thought this was a good rule....becuase my kid was not the one that was told to sit out a quarter.....he was the one they 'had to play at least one quarter'.

THIS ^^  is the kind of thing I am talking about.  How does a rule like that help anyone?  The kid who can really play has to sit, and the kid who can't play gets put in no matter what.  That makes no sense to me. 

In band, do they make the kid who plays first trumpet sit out a couple of numbers so a kid, who can't play "Mary Had A Little Lamb", can sit in when they have a performance?

 

It depends on the goal of the league. At 2nd grade it should be about building a base and developing as many kids as you can. There are almost always higher level opportunities for better kids. As mentioned in a previous post my community HS has a number of programs that participate in the state tournament most years. The foundation of this success are youth programs that focus on development, participation, as well as competition. Boys and girls basketball are the only teams with perennial losing records. Theiy follow a philosophy like you mention above. They end up losing a lot of kids and by HS they have lost so many "good"!players and depth players they have lost the ability to be competive in practice and on the court. Sometimes the kid who gets all the playing time feels entitled

I don't agree with any of that.  I don't agree with any "league" that has special rules for participation.  Where I live, in almost any sport, we have the YMCA, then CYC, then Little League.....little league has open and select teams.  Each of those leagues is a different talent level......put the kids in the right league and you don't have all this "special rules" crap.

Look, I've got 5 kids.....they all play(ed) sports, from YMCA to CYC to Little League to High School to National and International competition, and soon in the NCAA.  I get it......and so do the kids, as has been said by others in this thread.  Making special rules and giving "participation" trophies and awards is all just silly to me.  It's sports.  The strong survive, the others either sit or go home.  There are great lessons there for all kids.  I'm not, in any way, for political correctness in sport.

We didn't have many leagues when/where I was growing up......but we played every day.  You grabbed your glove or your ball or your skates and a stick and you headed to the park to find a game.  Sometimes you played a lot, sometimes not so much, depending on who was there and how old/good they were, sometimes you just watched.  We all survived.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-08-21 2:11 PM
2015-08-21 6:38 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by TriJedi
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio In my son's basketball league they had a rule that allowed the opposing teams coach to designate one player on the other team to sit out the 3rd quarter. Both teams would do this. They had this rule because there is always one guy who started playing BB when he was 2 years old and just dominates the court. I thought this was a good rule....becuase my kid was not the one that was told to sit out a quarter.....he was the one they 'had to play at least one quarter'.

THIS ^^  is the kind of thing I am talking about.  How does a rule like that help anyone?  The kid who can really play has to sit, and the kid who can't play gets put in no matter what.  That makes no sense to me. 

In band, do they make the kid who plays first trumpet sit out a couple of numbers so a kid, who can't play "Mary Had A Little Lamb", can sit in when they have a performance?

 

It depends on the goal of the league. At 2nd grade it should be about building a base and developing as many kids as you can. There are almost always higher level opportunities for better kids. As mentioned in a previous post my community HS has a number of programs that participate in the state tournament most years. The foundation of this success are youth programs that focus on development, participation, as well as competition. Boys and girls basketball are the only teams with perennial losing records. Theiy follow a philosophy like you mention above. They end up losing a lot of kids and by HS they have lost so many "good"!players and depth players they have lost the ability to be competive in practice and on the court. Sometimes the kid who gets all the playing time feels entitled

I don't agree with any of that.  I don't agree with any "league" that has special rules for participation.  Where I live, in almost any sport, we have the YMCA, then CYC, then Little League.....little league has open and select teams.  Each of those leagues is a different talent level......put the kids in the right league and you don't have all this "special rules" crap.

Look, I've got 5 kids.....they all play(ed) sports, from YMCA to CYC to Little League to High School to National and International competition, and soon in the NCAA.  I get it......and so do the kids, as has been said by others in this thread.  Making special rules and giving "participation" trophies and awards is all just silly to me.  It's sports.  The strong survive, the others either sit or go home.  There are great lessons there for all kids.  I'm not, in any way, for political correctness in sport.

We didn't have many leagues when/where I was growing up......but we played every day.  You grabbed your glove or your ball or your skates and a stick and you headed to the park to find a game.  Sometimes you played a lot, sometimes not so much, depending on who was there and how old/good they were, sometimes you just watched.  We all survived.



Little league has participation rules--everybody plays. The Liitle League World Series is all over ESPN. And so do most Elite, Select, and AAA programs, but for additional reasons. They are in business to make money. They make money by getting players on teams. The more players, the more money they make. Mom and Dad don't pay $$$ if little Johnny doesn't play. Hence, many of the leagues you mention have participation rules.



Little league has participation rules-everybody plays. The Little League World Series is all over ESPN. And so do most elite, select, and AAA programs, but for reasons beyond development. They are in business to make money. They make money by putting players on teams. The more players, the more money. Mom and dad don't pay $$$ if little Johnny doesn't play. Hence, many of the leagues you mention have participation rules.

I am not advocating that every kid plays equally in every situation, but that if you pick a kid for the team he should get to play.


2015-08-21 10:30 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?

Originally posted by TriJedi
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by TriJedi
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio In my son's basketball league they had a rule that allowed the opposing teams coach to designate one player on the other team to sit out the 3rd quarter. Both teams would do this. They had this rule because there is always one guy who started playing BB when he was 2 years old and just dominates the court. I thought this was a good rule....becuase my kid was not the one that was told to sit out a quarter.....he was the one they 'had to play at least one quarter'.

THIS ^^  is the kind of thing I am talking about.  How does a rule like that help anyone?  The kid who can really play has to sit, and the kid who can't play gets put in no matter what.  That makes no sense to me. 

In band, do they make the kid who plays first trumpet sit out a couple of numbers so a kid, who can't play "Mary Had A Little Lamb", can sit in when they have a performance?

 

It depends on the goal of the league. At 2nd grade it should be about building a base and developing as many kids as you can. There are almost always higher level opportunities for better kids. As mentioned in a previous post my community HS has a number of programs that participate in the state tournament most years. The foundation of this success are youth programs that focus on development, participation, as well as competition. Boys and girls basketball are the only teams with perennial losing records. Theiy follow a philosophy like you mention above. They end up losing a lot of kids and by HS they have lost so many "good"!players and depth players they have lost the ability to be competive in practice and on the court. Sometimes the kid who gets all the playing time feels entitled

I don't agree with any of that.  I don't agree with any "league" that has special rules for participation.  Where I live, in almost any sport, we have the YMCA, then CYC, then Little League.....little league has open and select teams.  Each of those leagues is a different talent level......put the kids in the right league and you don't have all this "special rules" crap.

Look, I've got 5 kids.....they all play(ed) sports, from YMCA to CYC to Little League to High School to National and International competition, and soon in the NCAA.  I get it......and so do the kids, as has been said by others in this thread.  Making special rules and giving "participation" trophies and awards is all just silly to me.  It's sports.  The strong survive, the others either sit or go home.  There are great lessons there for all kids.  I'm not, in any way, for political correctness in sport.

We didn't have many leagues when/where I was growing up......but we played every day.  You grabbed your glove or your ball or your skates and a stick and you headed to the park to find a game.  Sometimes you played a lot, sometimes not so much, depending on who was there and how old/good they were, sometimes you just watched.  We all survived.

Little league has participation rules--everybody plays. The Liitle League World Series is all over ESPN. And so do most Elite, Select, and AAA programs, but for additional reasons. They are in business to make money. They make money by getting players on teams. The more players, the more money they make. Mom and Dad don't pay $$$ if little Johnny doesn't play. Hence, many of the leagues you mention have participation rules.

Little league has participation rules-everybody plays. The Little League World Series is all over ESPN. And so do most elite, select, and AAA programs, but for reasons beyond development. They are in business to make money. They make money by putting players on teams. The more players, the more money. Mom and dad don't pay $$$ if little Johnny doesn't play. Hence, many of the leagues you mention have participation rules. I am not advocating that every kid plays equally in every situation, but that if you pick a kid for the team he should get to play.

Around here, in baseball, everybody bats, but they don't all play the field.  That's fine I guess, but when my kid was playing baseball I pulled him from that league and put him on a CYC team.....because he was not a good baseball player, so he rarely played in little league, but got to play a lot in CYC.  No problem. 

It finally dawned on me, while he was hitting a buck-fifty, and crying at the plate, but lapping everybody when they ran at the end of practice, that he wasn't the ballplayer I was and I probably had steered him in the wrong direction.  Again, no problem.  I think every kid has a talent.....the trick is to find it.  You don't find it by letting them into a game for a quarter when the kid and everybody else knows they suck.

My kid can run a 1:52 800 as a 17 year old......but if you throw a baseball to him it's just as likely that it'll hit him in the face as it is he will catch it.   

Round pegs, round holes......square pegs, square holes.......yeah?   Forcing the round pegs into square holes and then rewarding them for effort is dumb as hell.  I've lived it. I earned the trophy.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-08-21 10:33 PM
2015-08-22 11:58 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by TriJedi
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by TriJedi
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio In my son's basketball league they had a rule that allowed the opposing teams coach to designate one player on the other team to sit out the 3rd quarter. Both teams would do this. They had this rule because there is always one guy who started playing BB when he was 2 years old and just dominates the court. I thought this was a good rule....becuase my kid was not the one that was told to sit out a quarter.....he was the one they 'had to play at least one quarter'.

THIS ^^  is the kind of thing I am talking about.  How does a rule like that help anyone?  The kid who can really play has to sit, and the kid who can't play gets put in no matter what.  That makes no sense to me. 

In band, do they make the kid who plays first trumpet sit out a couple of numbers so a kid, who can't play "Mary Had A Little Lamb", can sit in when they have a performance?

 

It depends on the goal of the league. At 2nd grade it should be about building a base and developing as many kids as you can. There are almost always higher level opportunities for better kids. As mentioned in a previous post my community HS has a number of programs that participate in the state tournament most years. The foundation of this success are youth programs that focus on development, participation, as well as competition. Boys and girls basketball are the only teams with perennial losing records. Theiy follow a philosophy like you mention above. They end up losing a lot of kids and by HS they have lost so many "good"!players and depth players they have lost the ability to be competive in practice and on the court. Sometimes the kid who gets all the playing time feels entitled

I don't agree with any of that.  I don't agree with any "league" that has special rules for participation.  Where I live, in almost any sport, we have the YMCA, then CYC, then Little League.....little league has open and select teams.  Each of those leagues is a different talent level......put the kids in the right league and you don't have all this "special rules" crap.

Look, I've got 5 kids.....they all play(ed) sports, from YMCA to CYC to Little League to High School to National and International competition, and soon in the NCAA.  I get it......and so do the kids, as has been said by others in this thread.  Making special rules and giving "participation" trophies and awards is all just silly to me.  It's sports.  The strong survive, the others either sit or go home.  There are great lessons there for all kids.  I'm not, in any way, for political correctness in sport.

We didn't have many leagues when/where I was growing up......but we played every day.  You grabbed your glove or your ball or your skates and a stick and you headed to the park to find a game.  Sometimes you played a lot, sometimes not so much, depending on who was there and how old/good they were, sometimes you just watched.  We all survived.

Little league has participation rules--everybody plays. The Liitle League World Series is all over ESPN. And so do most Elite, Select, and AAA programs, but for additional reasons. They are in business to make money. They make money by getting players on teams. The more players, the more money they make. Mom and Dad don't pay $$$ if little Johnny doesn't play. Hence, many of the leagues you mention have participation rules.

Little league has participation rules-everybody plays. The Little League World Series is all over ESPN. And so do most elite, select, and AAA programs, but for reasons beyond development. They are in business to make money. They make money by putting players on teams. The more players, the more money. Mom and dad don't pay $$$ if little Johnny doesn't play. Hence, many of the leagues you mention have participation rules. I am not advocating that every kid plays equally in every situation, but that if you pick a kid for the team he should get to play.

Around here, in baseball, everybody bats, but they don't all play the field.  That's fine I guess, but when my kid was playing baseball I pulled him from that league and put him on a CYC team.....because he was not a good baseball player, so he rarely played in little league, but got to play a lot in CYC.  No problem. 

It finally dawned on me, while he was hitting a buck-fifty, and crying at the plate, but lapping everybody when they ran at the end of practice, that he wasn't the ballplayer I was and I probably had steered him in the wrong direction.  Again, no problem.  I think every kid has a talent.....the trick is to find it.  You don't find it by letting them into a game for a quarter when the kid and everybody else knows they suck.

My kid can run a 1:52 800 as a 17 year old......but if you throw a baseball to him it's just as likely that it'll hit him in the face as it is he will catch it.   

Round pegs, round holes......square pegs, square holes.......yeah?   Forcing the round pegs into square holes and then rewarding them for effort is dumb as hell.  I've lived it. I earned the trophy.





Here is an excerpt from one of our youth sports program handbooks:

The primary purpose of the program is to teach the fundamentals of the game, sportsmanship, discipline, and the importance of team play to all participants. We do not create heroes or failures of participants who are too young to handle either role.

Do you disagree with this philosophy?

2015-08-22 1:17 PM
in reply to: TriJedi

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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?

Originally posted by TriJedi
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by TriJedi
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by TriJedi
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio In my son's basketball league they had a rule that allowed the opposing teams coach to designate one player on the other team to sit out the 3rd quarter. Both teams would do this. They had this rule because there is always one guy who started playing BB when he was 2 years old and just dominates the court. I thought this was a good rule....becuase my kid was not the one that was told to sit out a quarter.....he was the one they 'had to play at least one quarter'.

THIS ^^  is the kind of thing I am talking about.  How does a rule like that help anyone?  The kid who can really play has to sit, and the kid who can't play gets put in no matter what.  That makes no sense to me. 

In band, do they make the kid who plays first trumpet sit out a couple of numbers so a kid, who can't play "Mary Had A Little Lamb", can sit in when they have a performance?

 

It depends on the goal of the league. At 2nd grade it should be about building a base and developing as many kids as you can. There are almost always higher level opportunities for better kids. As mentioned in a previous post my community HS has a number of programs that participate in the state tournament most years. The foundation of this success are youth programs that focus on development, participation, as well as competition. Boys and girls basketball are the only teams with perennial losing records. Theiy follow a philosophy like you mention above. They end up losing a lot of kids and by HS they have lost so many "good"!players and depth players they have lost the ability to be competive in practice and on the court. Sometimes the kid who gets all the playing time feels entitled

I don't agree with any of that.  I don't agree with any "league" that has special rules for participation.  Where I live, in almost any sport, we have the YMCA, then CYC, then Little League.....little league has open and select teams.  Each of those leagues is a different talent level......put the kids in the right league and you don't have all this "special rules" crap.

Look, I've got 5 kids.....they all play(ed) sports, from YMCA to CYC to Little League to High School to National and International competition, and soon in the NCAA.  I get it......and so do the kids, as has been said by others in this thread.  Making special rules and giving "participation" trophies and awards is all just silly to me.  It's sports.  The strong survive, the others either sit or go home.  There are great lessons there for all kids.  I'm not, in any way, for political correctness in sport.

We didn't have many leagues when/where I was growing up......but we played every day.  You grabbed your glove or your ball or your skates and a stick and you headed to the park to find a game.  Sometimes you played a lot, sometimes not so much, depending on who was there and how old/good they were, sometimes you just watched.  We all survived.

Little league has participation rules--everybody plays. The Liitle League World Series is all over ESPN. And so do most Elite, Select, and AAA programs, but for additional reasons. They are in business to make money. They make money by getting players on teams. The more players, the more money they make. Mom and Dad don't pay $$$ if little Johnny doesn't play. Hence, many of the leagues you mention have participation rules.

Little league has participation rules-everybody plays. The Little League World Series is all over ESPN. And so do most elite, select, and AAA programs, but for reasons beyond development. They are in business to make money. They make money by putting players on teams. The more players, the more money. Mom and dad don't pay $$$ if little Johnny doesn't play. Hence, many of the leagues you mention have participation rules. I am not advocating that every kid plays equally in every situation, but that if you pick a kid for the team he should get to play.

Around here, in baseball, everybody bats, but they don't all play the field.  That's fine I guess, but when my kid was playing baseball I pulled him from that league and put him on a CYC team.....because he was not a good baseball player, so he rarely played in little league, but got to play a lot in CYC.  No problem. 

It finally dawned on me, while he was hitting a buck-fifty, and crying at the plate, but lapping everybody when they ran at the end of practice, that he wasn't the ballplayer I was and I probably had steered him in the wrong direction.  Again, no problem.  I think every kid has a talent.....the trick is to find it.  You don't find it by letting them into a game for a quarter when the kid and everybody else knows they suck.

My kid can run a 1:52 800 as a 17 year old......but if you throw a baseball to him it's just as likely that it'll hit him in the face as it is he will catch it.   

Round pegs, round holes......square pegs, square holes.......yeah?   Forcing the round pegs into square holes and then rewarding them for effort is dumb as hell.  I've lived it. I earned the trophy.

Here is an excerpt from one of our youth sports program handbooks: The primary purpose of the program is to teach the fundamentals of the game, sportsmanship, discipline, and the importance of team play to all participants. We do not create heroes or failures of participants who are too young to handle either role. Do you disagree with this philosophy?

How old? 

2015-08-22 1:35 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

Veteran
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Minnesota
Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by TriJedi
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by TriJedi
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by TriJedi
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio In my son's basketball league they had a rule that allowed the opposing teams coach to designate one player on the other team to sit out the 3rd quarter. Both teams would do this. They had this rule because there is always one guy who started playing BB when he was 2 years old and just dominates the court. I thought this was a good rule....becuase my kid was not the one that was told to sit out a quarter.....he was the one they 'had to play at least one quarter'.

THIS ^^  is the kind of thing I am talking about.  How does a rule like that help anyone?  The kid who can really play has to sit, and the kid who can't play gets put in no matter what.  That makes no sense to me. 

In band, do they make the kid who plays first trumpet sit out a couple of numbers so a kid, who can't play "Mary Had A Little Lamb", can sit in when they have a performance?

 

It depends on the goal of the league. At 2nd grade it should be about building a base and developing as many kids as you can. There are almost always higher level opportunities for better kids. As mentioned in a previous post my community HS has a number of programs that participate in the state tournament most years. The foundation of this success are youth programs that focus on development, participation, as well as competition. Boys and girls basketball are the only teams with perennial losing records. Theiy follow a philosophy like you mention above. They end up losing a lot of kids and by HS they have lost so many "good"!players and depth players they have lost the ability to be competive in practice and on the court. Sometimes the kid who gets all the playing time feels entitled

I don't agree with any of that.  I don't agree with any "league" that has special rules for participation.  Where I live, in almost any sport, we have the YMCA, then CYC, then Little League.....little league has open and select teams.  Each of those leagues is a different talent level......put the kids in the right league and you don't have all this "special rules" crap.

Look, I've got 5 kids.....they all play(ed) sports, from YMCA to CYC to Little League to High School to National and International competition, and soon in the NCAA.  I get it......and so do the kids, as has been said by others in this thread.  Making special rules and giving "participation" trophies and awards is all just silly to me.  It's sports.  The strong survive, the others either sit or go home.  There are great lessons there for all kids.  I'm not, in any way, for political correctness in sport.

We didn't have many leagues when/where I was growing up......but we played every day.  You grabbed your glove or your ball or your skates and a stick and you headed to the park to find a game.  Sometimes you played a lot, sometimes not so much, depending on who was there and how old/good they were, sometimes you just watched.  We all survived.

Little league has participation rules--everybody plays. The Liitle League World Series is all over ESPN. And so do most Elite, Select, and AAA programs, but for additional reasons. They are in business to make money. They make money by getting players on teams. The more players, the more money they make. Mom and Dad don't pay $$$ if little Johnny doesn't play. Hence, many of the leagues you mention have participation rules.

Little league has participation rules-everybody plays. The Little League World Series is all over ESPN. And so do most elite, select, and AAA programs, but for reasons beyond development. They are in business to make money. They make money by putting players on teams. The more players, the more money. Mom and dad don't pay $$$ if little Johnny doesn't play. Hence, many of the leagues you mention have participation rules. I am not advocating that every kid plays equally in every situation, but that if you pick a kid for the team he should get to play.

Around here, in baseball, everybody bats, but they don't all play the field.  That's fine I guess, but when my kid was playing baseball I pulled him from that league and put him on a CYC team.....because he was not a good baseball player, so he rarely played in little league, but got to play a lot in CYC.  No problem. 

It finally dawned on me, while he was hitting a buck-fifty, and crying at the plate, but lapping everybody when they ran at the end of practice, that he wasn't the ballplayer I was and I probably had steered him in the wrong direction.  Again, no problem.  I think every kid has a talent.....the trick is to find it.  You don't find it by letting them into a game for a quarter when the kid and everybody else knows they suck.

My kid can run a 1:52 800 as a 17 year old......but if you throw a baseball to him it's just as likely that it'll hit him in the face as it is he will catch it.   

Round pegs, round holes......square pegs, square holes.......yeah?   Forcing the round pegs into square holes and then rewarding them for effort is dumb as hell.  I've lived it. I earned the trophy.

Here is an excerpt from one of our youth sports program handbooks: The primary purpose of the program is to teach the fundamentals of the game, sportsmanship, discipline, and the importance of team play to all participants. We do not create heroes or failures of participants who are too young to handle either role. Do you disagree with this philosophy?

How old? 



8-10 year olds.
2015-08-22 6:17 PM
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There was a day, before I got involved in kid's swimming, when I would have said yeah, I agree.  And for the most part, I think that's still true.  But I have watched 8-10 year olds compete in swimming and they learn the values you speak of by winning and losing.  Likewise, by the time a kid is 10, you can pretty mush tell if they have "it" when it comes to whatever sport they are involved in......so I would now say, maybe I agree, depending on the sport and the kid.

We volunteered, as a family, for a kids triathlon a few weeks ago.  There were maybe 10 kids who ranged from 8-15 years old.  Nobody kept time and there were no awards other then participation medals.  It was weird.  I think the youngest kids didn't really care, but the upper half of that age group spent most of their time after the race trying to figure out who they beat and how they did vs. the rest of the field. The theme for the event was that "everyone is a winner"......well, ok.

Competition, winning and losing, and learning how to win and lose, is a big part of sport.....some would argue that the most important lessons in sport come from that. 

I can see both sides.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-08-22 6:19 PM


2015-08-22 6:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
ETA to above....That should have been 100 kids in the triathlon, not 10.
2015-08-24 1:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
The idea that some kids get to play 4 quarters and some get to play 0 is just not right for 7 year old kids. If they didn't have this rule, you'd end up not having enough kids playing to make a league. Kids to go to all the practices and do all the drills and run all the laps and when Mom and Dad came to see the game, the kid sits on the bench the entire game? So the kid quits. Now you have a lot less kids playing BB and a lot less popcorn revenue at the games because Mom and Dad and sisters and grandparents don’t come to the game....and you still have kids who dominate the game and kids who ride the bench the whole game. Then those kids quit. So you have fewer teams and/or fewer players per team...and you STILL have kids who dominate the game and kids who don't warrant play.

I'm all for sports competition for fun but I was always more proud that my son made all A's in AP classes than how well he could hit a baseball or make a basket. I was born in the shallow end of the gene pool when it comes to athleticism so just never put much stock in sports.
2015-08-24 1:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?

My son played in a league like this but it was made very clear that this was an instructional league, aimed at teaching them basics of basketball, so I had no problem with them all getting equal playing time.

However, it was a tough lesson for my son to learn that once he was in school ball, the coach did not play everyone equally and that some kids never played. He had to work his way into the game after not playing the first half of the season.

So I do believe there is a place for leagues that play everyone equal amounts of time, but there comes a point where you have to realize that not everyone is as talented as others in a particular sport.

2015-08-24 1:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
Originally posted by Left Brain

There was a day, before I got involved in kid's swimming, when I would have said yeah, I agree.  And for the most part, I think that's still true.  But I have watched 8-10 year olds compete in swimming and they learn the values you speak of by winning and losing.  Likewise, by the time a kid is 10, you can pretty mush tell if they have "it" when it comes to whatever sport they are involved in......so I would now say, maybe I agree, depending on the sport and the kid.

We volunteered, as a family, for a kids triathlon a few weeks ago.  There were maybe 10 kids who ranged from 8-15 years old.  Nobody kept time and there were no awards other then participation medals.  It was weird.  I think the youngest kids didn't really care, but the upper half of that age group spent most of their time after the race trying to figure out who they beat and how they did vs. the rest of the field. The theme for the event was that "everyone is a winner"......well, ok.

Competition, winning and losing, and learning how to win and lose, is a big part of sport.....some would argue that the most important lessons in sport come from that. 

I can see both sides.




Kids understand more about competition than you give them credit for. When they all get their tests back the first thing they do is look around to see what other kids made. And you better believe they understand competition.

And as they get older it only gets more intense as they compete with other kids for ACT/SAT scores and scholarships and getting into college.

What they need to learn is school is it's a dog eat dog world and they are wearing Milkbone underwear! I mean, they need to learn the world is about competition...and it matter littel that you can run faster then other kids or make more baskets or have a higher batting average...unless you are part of the 1/0th of 1% who make a living in sports or the 1% who get a sports scholarship. What matters is academics and "participation" on the debate team and wresting team and chess club and FBLA and 4H and football team and track team.
2015-08-24 1:22 PM
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Yeah, 7 is young, let them play.

As for your comments on sports and school.......I bet you'd feel differently if sports was paying for your kid's college.  And that's the reality of some of this.  The really good and competitive kids get paid (scholarships), so for them it's not just fun, it's a means to get a cheap/free college education and continue their athletic careers at another level......and you don't get to that level in an "everybody plays" league. 

The kids who go on to upper level athletic competition, like the NCAA,  have been playing competitively for years and years....that's HOW they got there.  They learned how to win, and they play to win. It's not a bad thing.



2015-08-24 1:29 PM
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Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

There was a day, before I got involved in kid's swimming, when I would have said yeah, I agree.  And for the most part, I think that's still true.  But I have watched 8-10 year olds compete in swimming and they learn the values you speak of by winning and losing.  Likewise, by the time a kid is 10, you can pretty mush tell if they have "it" when it comes to whatever sport they are involved in......so I would now say, maybe I agree, depending on the sport and the kid.

We volunteered, as a family, for a kids triathlon a few weeks ago.  There were maybe 10 kids who ranged from 8-15 years old.  Nobody kept time and there were no awards other then participation medals.  It was weird.  I think the youngest kids didn't really care, but the upper half of that age group spent most of their time after the race trying to figure out who they beat and how they did vs. the rest of the field. The theme for the event was that "everyone is a winner"......well, ok.

Competition, winning and losing, and learning how to win and lose, is a big part of sport.....some would argue that the most important lessons in sport come from that. 

I can see both sides.

Kids understand more about competition than you give them credit for. When they all get their tests back the first thing they do is look around to see what other kids made. And you better believe they understand competition. And as they get older it only gets more intense as they compete with other kids for ACT/SAT scores and scholarships and getting into college. What they need to learn is school is it's a dog eat dog world and they are wearing Milkbone underwear! I mean, they need to learn the world is about competition...and it matter littel that you can run faster then other kids or make more baskets or have a higher batting average...unless you are part of the 1/0th of 1% who make a living in sports or the 1% who get a sports scholarship. What matters is academics and "participation" on the debate team and wresting team and chess club and FBLA and 4H and football team and track team.

Uhhhhhh.....that's EXACTLY what sports teaches them.  C'mon....if you never played any sports at a decent level then you can't really have this conversation. 

Your point about schoolwork is certainly valid.......so would you say that the kids who are just getting by in school.....you know, the one's getting the C's and D's (let's call them "participation grades", shall we?) are getting the same lessons.....or even care?  Maybe you CAN have this conversation since you're making the point for me.

2015-08-24 2:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
Originally posted by Left Brain

 

Yeah, 7 is young, let them play.

As for your comments on sports and school.......I bet you'd feel differently if sports was paying for your kid's college.  And that's the reality of some of this.  The really good and competitive kids get paid (scholarships), so for them it's not just fun, it's a means to get a cheap/free college education and continue their athletic careers at another level......and you don't get to that level in an "everybody plays" league. 

The kids who go on to upper level athletic competition, like the NCAA,  have been playing competitively for years and years....that's HOW they got there.  They learned how to win, and they play to win. It's not a bad thing.




Only about 2% of HS athelets get a NCAA scholarship and those that do get about $11k.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/8-things-you-should-know-about-sports-s...


I agree in playing to win.....at the middle-school and high-school level...but not grammer school. There might be kids who have been blessed with the atheletic gene but, because their parents never played ball with them, they don't know it yet. I think it is worthwhile to allow all children to play sports.

I always thought it was odd that college teachers would publish grades by student number or my last for SSN to protect the identity of the students. Why? Why not let everyone know who 'won' and who 'lost'? Just a thought....




2015-08-24 2:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

There was a day, before I got involved in kid's swimming, when I would have said yeah, I agree.  And for the most part, I think that's still true.  But I have watched 8-10 year olds compete in swimming and they learn the values you speak of by winning and losing.  Likewise, by the time a kid is 10, you can pretty mush tell if they have "it" when it comes to whatever sport they are involved in......so I would now say, maybe I agree, depending on the sport and the kid.

We volunteered, as a family, for a kids triathlon a few weeks ago.  There were maybe 10 kids who ranged from 8-15 years old.  Nobody kept time and there were no awards other then participation medals.  It was weird.  I think the youngest kids didn't really care, but the upper half of that age group spent most of their time after the race trying to figure out who they beat and how they did vs. the rest of the field. The theme for the event was that "everyone is a winner"......well, ok.

Competition, winning and losing, and learning how to win and lose, is a big part of sport.....some would argue that the most important lessons in sport come from that. 

I can see both sides.

Kids understand more about competition than you give them credit for. When they all get their tests back the first thing they do is look around to see what other kids made. And you better believe they understand competition. And as they get older it only gets more intense as they compete with other kids for ACT/SAT scores and scholarships and getting into college. What they need to learn is school is it's a dog eat dog world and they are wearing Milkbone underwear! I mean, they need to learn the world is about competition...and it matter littel that you can run faster then other kids or make more baskets or have a higher batting average...unless you are part of the 1/0th of 1% who make a living in sports or the 1% who get a sports scholarship. What matters is academics and "participation" on the debate team and wresting team and chess club and FBLA and 4H and football team and track team.

Uhhhhhh.....that's EXACTLY what sports teaches them.  C'mon....if you never played any sports at a decent level then you can't really have this conversation. 

Your point about schoolwork is certainly valid.......so would you say that the kids who are just getting by in school.....you know, the one's getting the C's and D's (let's call them "participation grades", shall we?) are getting the same lessons.....or even care?  Maybe you CAN have this conversation since you're making the point for me.





My only arguement is about age. Let kids enjoy being kids! Makes me sick to see a father yelling at his kid at the little league game because he dropped a ball. Let the kids have fun and enjoy playing ball for the sake of plaing ball....not just for bragging rights! Let those kids in your triathlon just enjoy s/b/r without having to feel the are not as good as other kids. The realization of their athletic inferiority will come soon enough......
2015-08-24 2:51 PM
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Well wait.....you said in another post that we shouldn't hide the identity of kids when it comes to test scores and I would also have no problem with that.  BUt then you say......"Let those kids in your triathlon just enjoy s/b/r without having to feel the are not as good as other kids."

Which is it?  Are you sure you aren't biased by your "lack of the athletic gene" as you call it?  It wouldn't be the first time that someone who had really good grades but was not athletic felt that way.

Look.....I think that sounds a bit snarky which is not my intention.....if we were sitting with each other having the conversation I don't think it would come off that way.  I'm genuinely curious.

2015-08-24 3:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Well wait.....you said in another post that we shouldn't hide the identity of kids when it comes to test scores and I would also have no problem with that.  BUt then you say......"Let those kids in your triathlon just enjoy s/b/r without having to feel the are not as good as other kids."

Which is it?  Are you sure you aren't biased by your "lack of the athletic gene" as you call it?  It wouldn't be the first time that someone who had really good grades but was not athletic felt that way.

Look.....I think that sounds a bit snarky which is not my intention.....if we were sitting with each other having the conversation I don't think it would come off that way.  I'm genuinely curious.





Are you referring to this:

I always thought it was odd that college teachers would publish grades by student number....


I don't seem to the option to make COLLEGE bold font. Again, it comes down to what is age appropiate. If you are in college your grades should be made public so everyone knows where they stand and where you stand. But not children......

My dad said when he was a kid in the 3rd grade, his dad bought him big leather shoes. He told my dad he needed to dress like a man! My dad said he didn't want to be a man...he just wanted to be a kid...and wear sneakers like the other kids.

Am I biased? Absolutely! I am 100% biased in every thought and opinion I have. Anyone who thinks they are capable of opining without their own life's experiencs biasing their opinions doesn't understand the definiton of opinion. Opinions, by definition, are not factual, they are judgements. And judgements are biased. Does that make it wrong? Nope. It's just a different pardigm.

I am not competitive in sports and don't put much value in athletics other than for entertainment value. I think (my opinion) that society puts way too much emphasis on sprots. It's not right that we pay millions of dollars to guys for playing golf or BB or football and then pay US servicement and educators a salary right at the poverty line.


2015-08-24 3:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Well wait.....you said in another post that we shouldn't hide the identity of kids when it comes to test scores and I would also have no problem with that.  BUt then you say......"Let those kids in your triathlon just enjoy s/b/r without having to feel the are not as good as other kids."

Which is it?  Are you sure you aren't biased by your "lack of the athletic gene" as you call it?  It wouldn't be the first time that someone who had really good grades but was not athletic felt that way.

Look.....I think that sounds a bit snarky which is not my intention.....if we were sitting with each other having the conversation I don't think it would come off that way.  I'm genuinely curious.

Are you referring to this: I always thought it was odd that college teachers would publish grades by student number.... I don't seem to the option to make COLLEGE bold font. Again, it comes down to what is age appropiate. If you are in college your grades should be made public so everyone knows where they stand and where you stand. But not children...... My dad said when he was a kid in the 3rd grade, his dad bought him big leather shoes. He told my dad he needed to dress like a man! My dad said he didn't want to be a man...he just wanted to be a kid...and wear sneakers like the other kids. Am I biased? Absolutely! I am 100% biased in every thought and opinion I have. Anyone who thinks they are capable of opining without their own life's experiencs biasing their opinions doesn't understand the definiton of opinion. Opinions, by definition, are not factual, they are judgements. And judgements are biased. Does that make it wrong? Nope. It's just a different pardigm. I am not competitive in sports and don't put much value in athletics other than for entertainment value. I think (my opinion) that society puts way too much emphasis on sprots. It's not right that we pay millions of dollars to guys for playing golf or BB or football and then pay US servicement and educators a salary right at the poverty line.

Eh....maybe you should have bolded it for me.

I agree 100% about opinions. You can't really have one without the experiences to back it up.  In my family, many of us have or will go to college at a greatly reduced cost due to athletics.  My own son may not pay a dime.  Many of his cousins, like my cousins and I, will get full or partial athletic scholarships.  Some of us had good grades, some of is didn't.  None of us had or have parents who made us participate or yelled at us while we did......but I would say that sport has defined my family and extended family more than anything else....and still seems to hang on through generations.

We start them playing young.......mostly as an extension of the sports/games/athletic endeavors we are already involved in.  The only differences in the kids are that some of them obviously can't stand to lose and some of them don't care as much.  There is no point in putting those kids who can't stand losing in any kind of participation league.....they will just be miserable.  It's truly not fun for them.  In fact, you are doing them a disservice by NOT putting them in competitive situations......because learning to lose well is the biggest lesson to be learned by those nuts. LOL

Again, there was a time when I would have said make it fun for all kids......but I have learned that you can't say that for all kids and for all sports.  One thing I have not changed my mind on is that it all has to be driven by the kid.  Once you get into a position where you are making a kid play a sport, or making them practice, you have walked into a potential mess that can really screw a kid up.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-08-24 3:59 PM
2015-08-24 5:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Well wait.....you said in another post that we shouldn't hide the identity of kids when it comes to test scores and I would also have no problem with that.  BUt then you say......"Let those kids in your triathlon just enjoy s/b/r without having to feel the are not as good as other kids."

Which is it?  Are you sure you aren't biased by your "lack of the athletic gene" as you call it?  It wouldn't be the first time that someone who had really good grades but was not athletic felt that way.

Look.....I think that sounds a bit snarky which is not my intention.....if we were sitting with each other having the conversation I don't think it would come off that way.  I'm genuinely curious.

Are you referring to this: I always thought it was odd that college teachers would publish grades by student number.... I don't seem to the option to make COLLEGE bold font. Again, it comes down to what is age appropiate. If you are in college your grades should be made public so everyone knows where they stand and where you stand. But not children...... My dad said when he was a kid in the 3rd grade, his dad bought him big leather shoes. He told my dad he needed to dress like a man! My dad said he didn't want to be a man...he just wanted to be a kid...and wear sneakers like the other kids. Am I biased? Absolutely! I am 100% biased in every thought and opinion I have. Anyone who thinks they are capable of opining without their own life's experiencs biasing their opinions doesn't understand the definiton of opinion. Opinions, by definition, are not factual, they are judgements. And judgements are biased. Does that make it wrong? Nope. It's just a different pardigm. I am not competitive in sports and don't put much value in athletics other than for entertainment value. I think (my opinion) that society puts way too much emphasis on sprots. It's not right that we pay millions of dollars to guys for playing golf or BB or football and then pay US servicement and educators a salary right at the poverty line.

Eh....maybe you should have bolded it for me.

I agree 100% about opinions. You can't really have one without the experiences to back it up.  In my family, many of us have or will go to college at a greatly reduced cost due to athletics.  My own son may not pay a dime.  Many of his cousins, like my cousins and I, will get full or partial athletic scholarships.  Some of us had good grades, some of is didn't.  None of us had or have parents who made us participate or yelled at us while we did......but I would say that sport has defined my family and extended family more than anything else....and still seems to hang on through generations.

We start them playing young.......mostly as an extension of the sports/games/athletic endeavors we are already involved in.  The only differences in the kids are that some of them obviously can't stand to lose and some of them don't care as much.  There is no point in putting those kids who can't stand losing in any kind of participation league.....they will just be miserable.  It's truly not fun for them.  In fact, you are doing them a disservice by NOT putting them in competitive situations......because learning to lose well is the biggest lesson to be learned by those nuts. LOL

Again, there was a time when I would have said make it fun for all kids......but I have learned that you can't say that for all kids and for all sports.  One thing I have not changed my mind on is that it all has to be driven by the kid.  Once you get into a position where you are making a kid play a sport, or making them practice, you have walked into a potential mess that can really screw a kid up.





My son got about $50k in academic scholarships and recently graduated in electrical engineering. He got offered a $75k scholarship to go to Santa Clara law but instead is staying in Tuscaloosa working as a waiter....near his GF. Go figure. He thinks he can do better than the 85 percentile he made on the LSAT and get in UA Law next year.

So academics has served us well. He can't hit a damn baseball but he was the head of the scholars bowl. Oh wait, he did get a hit once in little league.....he snacked a line drive....then was so shocked he actually hit the ball in a game he stood there looking at the ball....with me jumping up and down like a monkey yelling 'run Nick! RUN'. He turned a nice base hit into getting thrown out at first....so technically not a hit. But I was proud!

2015-08-24 5:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Well wait.....you said in another post that we shouldn't hide the identity of kids when it comes to test scores and I would also have no problem with that.  BUt then you say......"Let those kids in your triathlon just enjoy s/b/r without having to feel the are not as good as other kids."

Which is it?  Are you sure you aren't biased by your "lack of the athletic gene" as you call it?  It wouldn't be the first time that someone who had really good grades but was not athletic felt that way.

Look.....I think that sounds a bit snarky which is not my intention.....if we were sitting with each other having the conversation I don't think it would come off that way.  I'm genuinely curious.

Are you referring to this: I always thought it was odd that college teachers would publish grades by student number.... I don't seem to the option to make COLLEGE bold font. Again, it comes down to what is age appropiate. If you are in college your grades should be made public so everyone knows where they stand and where you stand. But not children...... My dad said when he was a kid in the 3rd grade, his dad bought him big leather shoes. He told my dad he needed to dress like a man! My dad said he didn't want to be a man...he just wanted to be a kid...and wear sneakers like the other kids. Am I biased? Absolutely! I am 100% biased in every thought and opinion I have. Anyone who thinks they are capable of opining without their own life's experiencs biasing their opinions doesn't understand the definiton of opinion. Opinions, by definition, are not factual, they are judgements. And judgements are biased. Does that make it wrong? Nope. It's just a different pardigm. I am not competitive in sports and don't put much value in athletics other than for entertainment value. I think (my opinion) that society puts way too much emphasis on sprots. It's not right that we pay millions of dollars to guys for playing golf or BB or football and then pay US servicement and educators a salary right at the poverty line.

Eh....maybe you should have bolded it for me.

I agree 100% about opinions. You can't really have one without the experiences to back it up.  In my family, many of us have or will go to college at a greatly reduced cost due to athletics.  My own son may not pay a dime.  Many of his cousins, like my cousins and I, will get full or partial athletic scholarships.  Some of us had good grades, some of is didn't.  None of us had or have parents who made us participate or yelled at us while we did......but I would say that sport has defined my family and extended family more than anything else....and still seems to hang on through generations.

We start them playing young.......mostly as an extension of the sports/games/athletic endeavors we are already involved in.  The only differences in the kids are that some of them obviously can't stand to lose and some of them don't care as much.  There is no point in putting those kids who can't stand losing in any kind of participation league.....they will just be miserable.  It's truly not fun for them.  In fact, you are doing them a disservice by NOT putting them in competitive situations......because learning to lose well is the biggest lesson to be learned by those nuts. LOL

Again, there was a time when I would have said make it fun for all kids......but I have learned that you can't say that for all kids and for all sports.  One thing I have not changed my mind on is that it all has to be driven by the kid.  Once you get into a position where you are making a kid play a sport, or making them practice, you have walked into a potential mess that can really screw a kid up.

My son got about $50k in academic scholarships and recently graduated in electrical engineering. He got offered a $75k scholarship to go to Santa Clara law but instead is staying in Tuscaloosa working as a waiter....near his GF. Go figure. He thinks he can do better than the 85 percentile he made on the LSAT and get in UA Law next year. So academics has served us well. He can't hit a damn baseball but he was the head of the scholars bowl. Oh wait, he did get a hit once in little league.....he snacked a line drive....then was so shocked he actually hit the ball in a game he stood there looking at the ball....with me jumping up and down like a monkey yelling 'run Nick! RUN'. He turned a nice base hit into getting thrown out at first....so technically not a hit. But I was proud!

This will get us a bit off track, but academic scholarships are the craziest thing I've ever seen because they are all over the chart.  My son has been an average student, but he scored a 29 on his ACT so his athletic scholarship offers, from some schools, also include a substantial amount of money from academic scholarships......but again, to some schools all that matters is GPA for academic scholarships.  It's weird.  And then there's the private institutions who offer athletic scholarships for sports that are not NCAA sanctioned, like cycling and even triathlon.  College scholarship money is a road with a lot of turns.

2015-08-24 6:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Participation Trophy?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Well wait.....you said in another post that we shouldn't hide the identity of kids when it comes to test scores and I would also have no problem with that.  BUt then you say......"Let those kids in your triathlon just enjoy s/b/r without having to feel the are not as good as other kids."

Which is it?  Are you sure you aren't biased by your "lack of the athletic gene" as you call it?  It wouldn't be the first time that someone who had really good grades but was not athletic felt that way.

Look.....I think that sounds a bit snarky which is not my intention.....if we were sitting with each other having the conversation I don't think it would come off that way.  I'm genuinely curious.

Are you referring to this: I always thought it was odd that college teachers would publish grades by student number.... I don't seem to the option to make COLLEGE bold font. Again, it comes down to what is age appropiate. If you are in college your grades should be made public so everyone knows where they stand and where you stand. But not children...... My dad said when he was a kid in the 3rd grade, his dad bought him big leather shoes. He told my dad he needed to dress like a man! My dad said he didn't want to be a man...he just wanted to be a kid...and wear sneakers like the other kids. Am I biased? Absolutely! I am 100% biased in every thought and opinion I have. Anyone who thinks they are capable of opining without their own life's experiencs biasing their opinions doesn't understand the definiton of opinion. Opinions, by definition, are not factual, they are judgements. And judgements are biased. Does that make it wrong? Nope. It's just a different pardigm. I am not competitive in sports and don't put much value in athletics other than for entertainment value. I think (my opinion) that society puts way too much emphasis on sprots. It's not right that we pay millions of dollars to guys for playing golf or BB or football and then pay US servicement and educators a salary right at the poverty line.

Eh....maybe you should have bolded it for me.

I agree 100% about opinions. You can't really have one without the experiences to back it up.  In my family, many of us have or will go to college at a greatly reduced cost due to athletics.  My own son may not pay a dime.  Many of his cousins, like my cousins and I, will get full or partial athletic scholarships.  Some of us had good grades, some of is didn't.  None of us had or have parents who made us participate or yelled at us while we did......but I would say that sport has defined my family and extended family more than anything else....and still seems to hang on through generations.

We start them playing young.......mostly as an extension of the sports/games/athletic endeavors we are already involved in.  The only differences in the kids are that some of them obviously can't stand to lose and some of them don't care as much.  There is no point in putting those kids who can't stand losing in any kind of participation league.....they will just be miserable.  It's truly not fun for them.  In fact, you are doing them a disservice by NOT putting them in competitive situations......because learning to lose well is the biggest lesson to be learned by those nuts. LOL

Again, there was a time when I would have said make it fun for all kids......but I have learned that you can't say that for all kids and for all sports.  One thing I have not changed my mind on is that it all has to be driven by the kid.  Once you get into a position where you are making a kid play a sport, or making them practice, you have walked into a potential mess that can really screw a kid up.

My son got about $50k in academic scholarships and recently graduated in electrical engineering. He got offered a $75k scholarship to go to Santa Clara law but instead is staying in Tuscaloosa working as a waiter....near his GF. Go figure. He thinks he can do better than the 85 percentile he made on the LSAT and get in UA Law next year. So academics has served us well. He can't hit a damn baseball but he was the head of the scholars bowl. Oh wait, he did get a hit once in little league.....he snacked a line drive....then was so shocked he actually hit the ball in a game he stood there looking at the ball....with me jumping up and down like a monkey yelling 'run Nick! RUN'. He turned a nice base hit into getting thrown out at first....so technically not a hit. But I was proud!

This will get us a bit off track, but academic scholarships are the craziest thing I've ever seen because they are all over the chart.  My son has been an average student, but he scored a 29 on his ACT so his athletic scholarship offers, from some schools, also include a substantial amount of money from academic scholarships......but again, to some schools all that matters is GPA for academic scholarships.  It's weird.  And then there's the private institutions who offer athletic scholarships for sports that are not NCAA sanctioned, like cycling and even triathlon.  College scholarship money is a road with a lot of turns.




My son got 33 on his ACT. He did not have a high GPA. IdK why he got to much.
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