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2015-09-10 5:39 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Seattle
Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Originally posted by Kido

Originally posted by Asalzwed

I can only speak for myself but I do exactly this because yeah, they are a group of friends. A group of friends with a common interest that have different experiences to draw from when I ask for advice. The biggest difference between the mentor group and TT would be that they know my athletic history and I know theirs. And in my opinion, that is one of the very most important pieces to continuing to progress in the sport. 

Also, when I post something in TT, whether it be a reply or a new thread, it often falls flat. I don't have that experience is the mentor forum. Maybe because they are my friends and they have to reply

This may be too anecdotal, but I feel as though the mentor groups, and maybe even ours specifically, is being called out. 

 

I appreciate all of that reasoning.  It makes perfect sense and I see the appeal.   I also get how people gravitate to friends and what's comfortable.

(and for the record, I haven't been in the mentor threads for years, so I don't know which ones exist or who's in them to call anyone in particular out). 

But, in a discussion why an entire forum seems slow in traffic, I can also see where people can come to the conclusion that when people log on then just go into their small groups and do their own thing, it could cut down in the overall community contributions.  There are probably people on BT that I think are MIA that probably still talk a lot, but only in mentor groups. 

I bet their is some really sound advice being provided...  just in the mentor threads.  Shame it may not be getting out to the general masses for absorption.  I probably got much of my advice just lurking rather than actually starting or contributing in a thread.  I feel that lurking in threads in TT is the point of it, but lurking in a mentor group feels a bit creepy to me - I would probably love to hear some of their experiences and advice.

That's very true. I think everyone in the mentor groups could stand to do a better job of sharing their experiences and what they have learned in TT. I will try to be more proactive about that. 

Actually, this thread has made me realize how much people do care about the personal story and even the more anecdotal part of the process. Granted it needs to be taken in context but it really can be valuable, so long as it is presented correctly. 



2015-09-10 5:43 PM
in reply to: QueenZipp

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Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Been here for a long time--not as long as some who have posted in this thread.  I don't think the site will ever be what it was in the past.  But it would be nice if it could be more than it seems to be today.  Some (probably random) thoughts:

I have thought there were too many sub-forums for a long time.  I also thought the mentor groups were a good idea the way they were started.  But as 'dedicated chat rooms', I think they detract from the site as a whole.  Many of the people using those groups now may move to FB or another source and never come back.  But over time, BT won't cannibalize itself the way it has in recent years.  It will either develop the content/discussions to survive on its own or it will wither away like other discussion boards have done over time.  It's biggest challenge is that many of the issues mentioned by others in this thread pushed out many participants who helped create much of that content.  At best, it will take time to 're-grow' that capability as new members join and grow in the sport.  But there are just so many more options to get the information today than existed when I stumbled into this site looking for swim help and training advice as I began the journey to my first tri.  The capability may never grow back in the same way.  Don't really have any great advice but I think getting rid of some sub forums is a start.  I think the mentor groups need to go, but maybe there is a way to transition some of those people and discussions back to the main board in a way that is useful for more people.

2015-09-10 8:11 PM
in reply to: tech_geezer

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Originally posted by tech_geezer

At the risk of sounding pompous yet again, I am going to repeat a post I made in 2010 on a somewhat similar thread regarding civility on BT.

Tech_Geezer’s Rules for Posting.

 

I am a long time member of this group and these are my rules for me. I really don’t expect others to share my views on use of the forums, but I do mean for my conduct to honor the ideals of Ron’s community that he described in the Guidelines for Healthy Discussion.

My goal in posting is to be informative or entertaining or, if possible, both. I only post if I have something unique, relevant, and personal to add. I do not repeat the conventional training wisdom; I give my own experience and ideas. If someone asks how to fix something and I’ve done it and know how, I tell them. If not, I let other people answer. I rarely pass on second hand information. When I do, I post the link rather than explain it myself. I generally try not to be the first responder to a question. I do not think I am likely to have the best information or most pertinent experience. Very often if I wait, my response is not needed at all. I do think every genuine question deserves an answer; so if a thread languishes for a while without a response, I will take a stab at it.

Humor is tricky. It makes the forums entertaining, but for me, it has to be good clean fun. I can make a joke about myself but I never make a joke at the expense of another person whether he or she is on this forum or not. This includes public figures. If I give offense, I apologize quickly and privately. Sarcasm is especially problematic. It can easily be misunderstood. Frequently, it has an element of criticism or making fun of someone. I just avoid it.

I mean to be the same person online as I am in real life or as closely as I can within the limitations of the medium. Of course this means to be absolutely truthful and precise about myself and my experience as I can be. If I ran 34:20, I say 34:20 not 34. I try to act my age and my marital status. I am 57 years old and married for 35 years to my high school sweetheart. I have little to add to a discussion among younger, single people about relationships so I stay out of these topics. That does not mean I don’t read them. I do find these discussions entertaining. Some of you are funny at a professional level. I just don’t post.

I try to use correct grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Most of my professional work involves technical writing. I keep my Gregg Reference Manual and Merriam-Webster dictionary handy and use them when I need them. Because I need to be careful all the time, I do not change my writing style online. I do not mean to be a grammar snob. I never correct anyone else’s writing. Other people may not place the same importance on careful writing as I; yet I can almost always understand what they mean. That is all I need.

When I post something, I want to be understood by everyone. Most here do not know me personally; so I try to give any information they might need to know to understand the context. I do not use inside jokes or obliquely refer to things not known to the entire community.

I do not enter into debate. I rarely post more than once on a thread. If someone takes issue with what I said, I check my post. If it is clear and I have not been misunderstood, then I let both opinions stand on their merit and say nothing further. I find little satisfaction in political debate and avoid these topics. I ignore any negative, argumentative, or insulting comments made in the forums. I am not the moderator and do not want to be.

I mean to be a generous, helpful, and positive member of the community. I used to give to every worthy cause mentioned on the site. The solicitations have dropped off but I still give to people and causes when they crop up. These forums are about triathlons and all sorts of personal achievements. I try to take note of significant achievements from losing ten pounds to finishing an Ironman.

My posts have dropped off a great deal since I first joined the community in January 2004. I still read the forums daily but find very little that I can add. Yes kids, I do know I am boring, and yes maybe I have too many rules.

 

TW

Thank you for the reminder.

2015-09-11 12:21 PM
in reply to: 0

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Expert
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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?
At least this has not gone the way of TNO.

That was my first tri forum experience. We had a few meetups along the way.
Then around 2008 there was a big blow up, a number of bannings, and the forum all but died. It felt like I was away for a couple of weeks and changes had been swift and severe.

That is around the time I found out about this forum. I was not banned it was just traffic dried up overnight. The forum was no longer fun or interesting.

ST has slowed down but not as much. I think there needs to be a little leniency on posting content. I believe that has now been addressed by this forum's owner in this thread.


Edited by Hugh in TX 2015-09-11 12:26 PM
2015-09-11 12:27 PM
in reply to: Hugh in TX

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

It all went downhill when the Girls of BT threads slowed down!

2015-09-11 12:48 PM
in reply to: jford2309

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Originally posted by jford2309

It all went downhill when the Girls of BT threads slowed down!

and here lies the answer!



2015-09-11 12:55 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Seattle
Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by jford2309

It all went downhill when the Girls of BT threads slowed down!

and here lies the answer!

Case closed!!! 

2015-09-11 1:36 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by TriMyBest
Originally posted by Asalzwed

Correlation does not imply causation

I don't post in TT because of other factors not because time. 

Would you mind sharing the reason? Unltimately, the lack of traffic in TT is the main issue. Adding your n=1 will help determine the underlying causes.

Ok, since you are asking.

1. I feel, as I mentioned above that often, whether I start a new thread or reply that I am ignored. I am not sure why this is, it could be 100% on me whether it be the way I portray myself or my "tone" or maybe it's because I am female? I definitely can't say why. But I feel that I must be somehow qualified by someone else with an "x2" or something before what I say makes any impact, and at that point why not just let the "qualifier" do the talking. Again, I don't know why and I am not claiming to but it's how I feel.

2. LB, I'm going to candid and I think that you deserve honesty because I do respect you, and god knows you have thick skin (I do not!), but you can be kind of a jerk sometimes. This can't be news to you. Maybe you enjoy ruffling people's feathers, I don't know. I like discussing different theories, ideas and strategies because I realize there are a whole lot of ways to improve as an athlete and it is fascinating! But arguing on the internet isn't fun to me, especially when someone is being abrasive. Again, this is how I feel because I am specifically being asked. I cannot speak for anyone else. 

X2

2015-09-11 1:58 PM
in reply to: rrrunner

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Originally posted by rrrunner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by TriMyBest
Originally posted by Asalzwed

Correlation does not imply causation

I don't post in TT because of other factors not because time. 

Would you mind sharing the reason? Unltimately, the lack of traffic in TT is the main issue. Adding your n=1 will help determine the underlying causes.

Ok, since you are asking.

1. I feel, as I mentioned above that often, whether I start a new thread or reply that I am ignored. I am not sure why this is, it could be 100% on me whether it be the way I portray myself or my "tone" or maybe it's because I am female? I definitely can't say why. But I feel that I must be somehow qualified by someone else with an "x2" or something before what I say makes any impact, and at that point why not just let the "qualifier" do the talking. Again, I don't know why and I am not claiming to but it's how I feel.

2. LB, I'm going to candid and I think that you deserve honesty because I do respect you, and god knows you have thick skin (I do not!), but you can be kind of a jerk sometimes. This can't be news to you. Maybe you enjoy ruffling people's feathers, I don't know. I like discussing different theories, ideas and strategies because I realize there are a whole lot of ways to improve as an athlete and it is fascinating! But arguing on the internet isn't fun to me, especially when someone is being abrasive. Again, this is how I feel because I am specifically being asked. I cannot speak for anyone else. 

X2

I didn't lose anything in New Mexico.

2015-09-11 2:01 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Still think it's all LB's fault!

2015-09-11 2:46 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Originally posted by msteiner

Still think it's all LB's fault!

You sound like my kids. LOL



2015-09-11 4:11 PM
in reply to: skipg

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

What's happened to "the bear" since he hasn't provided feedback in this thread?  He always had some sound feedback.

2015-09-11 5:17 PM
in reply to: 1stTimeTri

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Sensei
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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Just my 0.02 on some of the recent discussion.  I'm not too worried about the posters that post a lot, then basically fall of the map.  That probably happens with many sports or workout programs.  People get into it, it's new and exciting and they want to learn, then realize it takes work, money, commitment, and the rate of improvement is probably way too slow for them - they are not AG champions after 2 races..   LOL.

I'm currently doing a different thang to get my workout on, and talking to the coach, he said if he can get people to come in regularly for 6 months?  They are usually in for the long haul and they are hooked.  Most show excitement those first few months then fade away.

I'm sure triathlon or jogging or swimming or lifting?  All the same.  Most just have a personal resolution, then quit after they get bored.  That's always going to happen.

What I found is many of the long time members, many of which I know still race and live for triathlon, quit posting - and that's what I see is the issue.

2015-09-11 6:28 PM
in reply to: 0

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Master
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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?
As for attractive young women disappearing suddenly and disproportionately.....my best guess is this (based on the younger training partners I've lost over the years): They meet a young, attractive partner, training and posting time suddenly becomes relationship time (unless said partner's into the sport, perhaps), marriage or other long-term commitment follows, as does pregnancy, baby or babies, and family life. Don't want to be sexist, but it is the women who get pregnant, not the guys, and that would cause many (though not all--we definitely have some in master's swimming who have trained through most/all of their pregnancies, at least in the pool) to withdraw, in some cases quite abruptly, from the sport, at least temporarily.

At least I'd like to hope it's mostly that and not some hidden undercurrent of harassment.

Edited by Hot Runner 2015-09-11 6:30 PM
2015-09-11 7:48 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Socks

I have been around since 2005.  Met lots of great people over the years.  I think the re-design drove a lot of people away.  Its harder to be friendly and the loss of chat didn't help either.  I don't "talk" to nearly as many people on my friends list as I did a few years back.  Many people whom I started with don't do tris anymore and I keep up with them on FB.  I am way less active on the forums partly because I have no desire to answer the same question for the 100th time and partly because after 10 years I dont' have much to ask myself.  I wish the fun of the big BT get togethers still happened because that was really special.

I remember you. We got into some knock-down, drag-out arguments about politics and religion and other stuff. Glad to see your changed your avatar, I always thought you wrere a guy..... Didn't you used to have glass of beer as an avatar?
  Nope I think you are thinking of someone else

2015-09-11 8:16 PM
in reply to: Socks

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Ron is it possible to get chat back? That was such great fun



2015-09-16 3:37 AM
in reply to: Socks

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Huge thanks to Ron for responding, taking responsibility, and everyone else who thoughtfully wrote in.

I bear some responsibility as well since Ron asked for help with some things, I responded positively but then dropped off the map.

My N=1 and thoughts (sorry for disorganization--I have been thinking and even recording these things for a long time but never get around to compiling/posting/communicating):

- I disappeared (except for the mentor group and even then my posting this last year has been sporadic at best) for many personal reasons--helped start tri/endurance sports in a country in a region where they are now booming, so the enormous chunk of my tri time goes to that. Additionally I have several jobs and some hefty family responsibilities. And yeah, as Hot Runner pointed out, I got hitched And--I've spent probably at least half of the last 6 years being seriously ill or injured and recovering.

- I also withdrew a great deal from BT for these reasons: I felt that LOGS and INSPIRES were the foundation of what created a sense of community, along with Tri Talk and COJ, but the logs/inspires are where all the PERSONAL connections were made and maintained which, I felt, were the heart & blood vessels of this place. After the BT re-do (which I absolutely supported and understand why it had to happen), however, inspiring and logging became so cumbersome as to make me quit them almost entirely. This issue was brought up repeatedly--by beta testers, moderators, and BT members--and I felt like it was ignored.

- The Challenge Forum, which used to draw and draw in hundreds of takers, was another huge community builder here. Due to cross-posting rules (which I understand why they exist) challenges couldn't also be posted in Tri Talk. It's true Ron said Challenges would be featured in the new BT--and is there still a header button for them?--but without being able to promote and maintain the sense of community and Challenges specifically (not just a button), Challenges died. 

- There were a number of issues (other than logs, inspires, challenges, and others mentioned) repeatedly brought up by members and moderators--there were several very good discussions amongst the mods--but then very little was done or changed. Considering the beta testers, respondents, and mods were doing this all for free, I think many felt their efforts were in vain and unappreciated. So ... attrition. Why bother?

Again, so many good people and good points. Thank you all for your input.

2015-09-16 8:28 AM
in reply to: IndoIronYanti

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?
Yep, Challenges died and I have given up on it. No one actually took the bait for the USMS Postal Swims (3K and one hour TT's) last year except me and Simpsonbo. That's just not a fair matchup! (Though I guess, being of different genders, we could both say we won our respective divisions for that challenge?)
2015-09-16 8:36 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Yanti - I have thought about your post this morning, and about the posts on this thread from other long time BT'ers.....and how this topic seems to come up quarterly with the same posts and the same issues.  Here's my take, after reading all of these "where oh where has BT gone" posts in my 4 years here:

BT is not special, and it never was.  What WAS special is the internet. The world got smaller. I moderated, and then administrated, my first chat board in the late 90's, not too long after this whole format came into being.  It was a hunting and fishing board and we probably had 3000 members in it's heyday.  People came there to learn about hunting and fishing in our area, and many came just to up their learning curve.  Another member and I were the first to meet face to face for a fishing weekend.  My wife thought I was nuts.  I though it was cool as hell that I could meet other people who loved doing what I loved.  That meeting spawned meetings between other people, and then full blown parties, and eventually a new chapter of Delta Waterfowl, a conservation organization.  It was an unbelievable experience and I met lifelong friends through it.  And then it went sideways.  Without boring you with the details, it spiraled so out of control that we had members going to other member's homes to settle differences.  It was nuts.  Many of us left and, from our leaving, we started other boards.  For a time I became heavily involved in training retrievers and a board with that theme.  Again, the same situation, a great group of guys, and a few gals, with similar interests and a willingness to meet up and share a common love.  Once again, the board grew, new people showed up, the shine wore off, and pretty soon that board only had a few folks posting.  The story is the same from board to board.  Changes were made, new people arrived, new problems came up, people left in a huff, people got banned, blah, blah, blah. Game over.

It's hard to say what makes a board have that feeling of something special, if even for a short while, and even though it isn't.  I think it's the "brand" that brings people together, along with great/lucky timing.  BeginnerTriathlete is a great brand and it came at a time of great growth in the sport.  The fact that it is still hanging on is a testament to the brand.......I would be willing to bet that 8 out of 10 of these boards don't survive......or become a shell of what they were in their prime.  It's just the way of these boards.  And now, with the explosion of social media in different formats, and human nature being what it is, the majority of people find a very small group that they are comfortable with and stay right there in their comfort zone......it's just the easy way.  This is, after all, just recreation.  Probably the biggest reason that SlowTwitch keeps firing, since that board is often brought up as a foil to this one, is because for MANY of the people on that board, and certainly enough of them to sustain good traffic, it's not recreation......it's much more than that.  It's tied to their job, or their business, or they are so heavily invested in triathlon and endurance sport that it long ago stopped being just recreation.

BT is not special.  The community is/was not special.  The friendships formed were the same type of friendships and relationships that hundreds of other boards spawned.  There are no "problems"......it's just life.  This stuff comes and goes.  If you are lucky enough to be a part of an "institution" when it's really firing on all cylinders then the best thing you can do is enjoy the ride.......it's not going to last, and something else will come along. 

Looking back on the really good times, and good groups in my life is fun.....and I'm sure I'll catch a really good ride or two again. But I don't like to spend much time lamenting the "good ole days" of anything.  You end up missing what's in front of you.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-09-16 8:38 AM
2015-09-16 12:29 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?
still... nobody's answered the question...

Where did they go??

like literally... where are they???

2015-09-16 12:35 PM
in reply to: maxmattmick

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Originally posted by maxmattmick still... nobody's answered the question... Where did they go?? like literally... where are they???

I, for one, have no idea.  I'm just hopeful they don't all come back here whining at once.



2015-09-16 12:42 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Master
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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?
agree... i know I got away from tri's which is a bummer but I was just burned out

now I'm making another go

so I'm back... no whining

2015-09-16 4:07 PM
in reply to: maxmattmick

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

Originally posted by maxmattmick still... nobody's answered the question... Where did they go?? like literally... where are they???

2015-09-16 5:52 PM
in reply to: skipg

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

I'm still here!  been hurt all yea r.  In triathlons since 1999 and on this site I believe summer 2007. I met many wonderful people from this site in the VA and MD area and in FLA.  Many have have moved on from triathlon.  It makes me sad that we don't have the same traffic coming in that we did back then.  I had to go to ST for my time waster during work, but I still log here for my workouts.

anyways, so good to see lots of the "old" folks. 

2015-09-17 6:32 AM
in reply to: turtlegirl

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Subject: RE: Where did all the BTers go?

I had an opportunity to go through my mailbox and clean out some old messages.  I popped a few of them open, as they were "Goodbye notes" to some old posters.  All of them were equal in that the stated reason to leave was that they were ready to move on. 

These things are cyclical in nature for many people.  Part of the cycle is the new folks that come in and the knowledge growth in the "New" old folks.  It happens, none of us will be the same forever.  That would be a different type of sad.  The only constant in life is change.

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