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2015-08-25 4:21 PM


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Subject: Question about power, hills and IMWI
So I just bought a power meter and just beginning to understand/interpret the data. I've used it twice on the IMWI course and I was using a lot of power going up some of those hills. I was pushing 240-300 watts and my FTP is 207. From what I've read (like stuff from Friel) I shouldn't be above FTP for an IM. I have a 52/38 chainring with 11/28 cassette. I called my bike shop to ask if I should change my chainring/cassette and he said it was fine and those numbers are expected. What do you think?


2015-08-25 4:52 PM
in reply to: hubcaps

Master
5557
50005002525
, California
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI

Switching to a compact crankset is usually a good thing for age groupers, but you should probably give some more time to get used to your power meter before making decisions.  How long have you had it, and when did you do your FTP test?  Have you done more than one?  Most people tend to undershoot on the first test a little bit.

Also, have you ridden the entire IMWI course?  How did you feel?  Did you do a short run afterward?

2015-08-25 6:14 PM
in reply to: hubcaps

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI

You do want to keep the surges down. The bike shop may not realize what type of race it is. What is your cadence doing during the higher power outputs? Compared to more normal for you? You may just need to calm down on the hills as many often put artificial restrictions on themselves at times.

2015-08-25 7:43 PM
in reply to: spudone


37
25
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI
I haven't had the power meter that long, just about a month. However, I've had one on my trainer (kickr) for 1.5 years. It's been about 2 months since I've done my FTP (usually do 4x a year after each training block. It's usually incorporated into the trainer road programs I use). I just haven't been able to fit it into my training schedule recently. It should be higher than the 207 based on my fitness, but I doubt by much since most of my recent workouts are more volume focused.

I have done the course twice. I was cooked the first time, but I had a high VI (1.4). I was grinding up the hills and coasting down. The second time I was much better VI around 1.1 and did a 5 mile run, which felt fairly easy.
2015-08-25 7:53 PM
in reply to: brigby1


37
25
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI
The fitter that I talked to had done IMWI and I think they cater to a lot of IMWI racers.
My cadence was 60-70s going up the tougher hills. I averaged 89 overall for the course. I can't pull back anymore since I am already on the lowest gear. When I rode the course this past weekend, I tried as hard as I could to keep the power down without tipping over.
2015-08-25 8:23 PM
in reply to: hubcaps


1055
10002525
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI
You'll get the feel for what type of power works for you as you use it more. You probably won't be able to average 240W for very long on those hills if your FTP is accurate at 207W. The first few hills won't be an issue. . . but by mile 60 you'll find that it's affecting your ability to hold a certain power number even on the flats. I'll generally be targeting a lesser percentage of my FTP but then allow myself to push at my FTP going up a long hill. It can really be pretty situational depending on the hill itself, the course, the distance, how I'm feeling, etc. But anything above your target, and certainly your FTP, and you're burning matches, and you've only got so many of those.


2015-08-25 8:53 PM
in reply to: hubcaps

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Veteran
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The Woodlands, TX
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI
Originally posted by hubcaps

So I just bought a power meter and just beginning to understand/interpret the data. I've used it twice on the IMWI course and I was using a lot of power going up some of those hills. I was pushing 240-300 watts and my FTP is 207. From what I've read (like stuff from Friel) I shouldn't be above FTP for an IM. I have a 52/38 chainring with 11/28 cassette. I called my bike shop to ask if I should change my chainring/cassette and he said it was fine and those numbers are expected. What do you think?


Below is a quote from an interview with Kevin Metcalfe after he set a 40k TT age group record with a time of 49:29:

"Kevin: I think that the vast majority of people don’t need a standard crank and especially not a 54 or 55 tooth chain ring. The fact that I was able to average 30 mph and except for about 10 seconds in my 12, never used anything bigger than a 50x13 tells me that you don’t need a huge gear to go fast. There are a lot of variables, but a 50x11 is a bigger gear than Eddy Merckx ever had. Of course, on the other hand if you live in Kansas you probably don’t need a compact either. I just think that a lot of people never learn to pedal properly. I’m not saying that somebody should do a time trial or triathlon a 100+ rpm, but if a rider can’t pedal for relatively short (1 minute or so) durations at 100 or 110, they need to work on their pedaling, not buy a bigger chain ring. BTW, in that vein racing on the track does wonders for your abilities as a cyclist."

If he can average 30 mph on a compact, why would any of the rest of us need anything else? I understand having a standard crank on a road bike if you're racing or doing group rides with lots of sprinting, but for tri bikes, I'd take a compact every time. I swapped my standard crank for a compact a few months after I got my tri bike, sold the standard crank on the BT classifieds, and am convinced I made the right choice for me. Total net cost was less than $50, but I went from an Ultrega crank to a 105.
2015-08-26 7:18 AM
in reply to: hubcaps

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Member
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Exton, PA
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI
Originally posted by hubcaps

So I just bought a power meter and just beginning to understand/interpret the data. I've used it twice on the IMWI course and I was using a lot of power going up some of those hills. I was pushing 240-300 watts and my FTP is 207. From what I've read (like stuff from Friel) I shouldn't be above FTP for an IM. I have a 52/38 chainring with 11/28 cassette. I called my bike shop to ask if I should change my chainring/cassette and he said it was fine and those numbers are expected. What do you think?


I've never heard of a 52/38(I'm sure its been done but not common). Did you mean a 53/39 or a 52/36?
2015-08-26 7:35 AM
in reply to: hubcaps

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI

Originally posted by hubcaps The fitter that I talked to had done IMWI and I think they cater to a lot of IMWI racers. My cadence was 60-70s going up the tougher hills. I averaged 89 overall for the course. I can't pull back anymore since I am already on the lowest gear. When I rode the course this past weekend, I tried as hard as I could to keep the power down without tipping over.

Ok, if you're at 89 for the course and dropping down regularly for the hills then you're probably a bit higher in the flats too. Dropping in the 60's is kind of low for you, so good idea in checking out what you can do. Some people do actually forget to put the bike in the lowest gear. And also trap themselves into thinking they can't go any slower and force themselves to work harder with some false logic. I was wondering how much slower you would actually go if you did keep power down as it may not be as much of a drop as some think. However, you are already in the 60's. As another poster suggested, double check the chain ring sizes. I have heard of a 38, but it's not really common. A 52/38 could be either compact or standard crank, so need to see about that too. If it's already a compact you could swap the rings out. If standard then a compact crank would be in order as the 38 is the smallest a standard can go.

2015-08-26 4:48 PM
in reply to: brigby1


37
25
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI
The chainring size is correct. It's a "semi-compact" crank.

This is my bike with the specs: http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2015/Bikes/TT-TRI/B-Series/B2-Avail...

I am in my lowest gear and I can't push less power or else I'll tip over (cadence would be too slow).
2015-08-26 7:48 PM
in reply to: 0

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Master
2759
20005001001002525
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI
Originally posted by hubcaps

The chainring size is correct. It's a "semi-compact" crank.

This is my bike with the specs: http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2015/Bikes/TT-TRI/B-Series/B2-Avail...

I am in my lowest gear and I can't push less power or else I'll tip over (cadence would be too slow).


A compact crankset will serve you well then.

ETA: 50/34T rings.

Edited by kloofyroland 2015-08-26 7:49 PM


2015-08-26 7:48 PM
in reply to: hubcaps

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI

Said I believed you before about being in the lowest gear, just explaining why I asked earlier. Also that 60-70 was low enough that your inquiry towards lower gearing is warranted. 

If you're really going to "tip over" at 60-70 then I would suggest emphasizing handling some more. It you said values less than half that, then it would be more likely. What's more likely is that you're losing a bit of control by pushing that hard. Fine motor skills while also beating yourself up take some practice to do. Try it in an area where you don't feel like you have to push so much to keep going. Looking like you're still going 6.5-7 mph with the info given.

Good to see the numbers are correct, though still kind of stuck on which option would be for you. "Semi-compact" is a made up term for people who didn't understand what it was for in the first place. Standard and Compact were for the the spacing of the 5 bolts that the chainrings attach to, not the chainrings themselves. Their sizes are 110 and 130mm. A 52/38 could be either so can't tell if you only need to get new a couple new chainrings or completely switch out the crankset. Although the second isn't necessarily that bad when considering you can resell the original for something.

2015-08-26 8:12 PM
in reply to: brigby1


37
25
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI
Not really tipping over at 60-70, that's the lowest I can go and feel comfortable going up hill. Any lower cadence then that I feel like tipping over. I'll definitely try practicing tomorrow on some hills. Thanks for the advice! I understand why I'm kinds of wobbling at low cadence.

I can go compact with my current crankset per my LBS and also confirmed on FSA website.

Not sure if this makes any difference, but my heart rate seems okay. Just brief, seconds, above LTHR on tougher hills.
2015-08-26 8:19 PM
in reply to: hubcaps

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New user
121
100
Green Bay, WI
Subject: RE: Question about power, hills and IMWI
So I was just in your shoes a couple weeks ago. Im doing IMWI and and was riding a 52/36 chainring with 11/28. FTP of 225. After riding a couple loops I was seriously concerned about burning my legs out on some of those grinding hills. I decided to swap to a 50/34 and I'm soooooo happy I did. I would highly recommend making the switch. From my coach and what I've read you should riding at about 70% of Ftp on average for an ironman so pushing those kind of watts would not be good for very long.
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