General Discussion Triathlon Talk » ITU Draft legal change for 2016 Rss Feed  
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2015-09-19 12:51 AM


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Subject: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
I am reading through the ITU rule book an highlighted in green it states the drafting will be legal starting in 2016 for all age group sprint racing.

Now am I interpreting this right that next year any ITU sanctioned event in the sprint will be draft legal? Secondly does this mean that a lot of the local sprints will become draft legal?

I have not found anything in the USAT rules ergo the confusion.


2015-09-19 3:34 AM
in reply to: dougie2008

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
Originally posted by dougie2008I am reading through the ITU rule book an highlighted in green it states the drafting will be legal starting in 2016 for all age group sprint racing. Now am I interpreting this right that next year any ITU sanctioned event in the sprint will be draft legal? Secondly does this mean that a lot of the local sprints will become draft legal?I have not found anything in the USAT rules ergo the confusion.
Very few races in the US are sanctioned by the ITU. Most are USAT. I'm not familiar enough with ITU racing to comment on whether they're making ALL AG races draft legal.
2015-09-19 9:15 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016

Yes, ITU sprint races (aka worlds next year) will be draft legal.  USAT screwed us all over with the way they qualified people this year.

thanks obama

2015-09-19 6:52 PM
in reply to: dmiller5


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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
That is what I figured but I was unsure. I know USAT events can qualify an individual for nationals that can qualify you for worlds.

I guess my question is more around the idea that if I qualify for nationals next year would I have to change racing style to compete at the next level.

I do not for see this being a problem as I am still trying to wrap my head around two slow Ironmans and a really fast half.
2015-09-20 10:13 AM
in reply to: dougie2008

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
Just remember ... no TT bikes allowed in DL & no shorty bars either.

I looking forward to racing with less on an arms race for kit.
2015-09-20 10:49 AM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
Originally posted by simpsonbo

Just remember ... no TT bikes allowed in DL & no shorty bars either.

I looking forward to racing with less on an arms race for kit.


And a nice easy swim for you to exit the water with some people ready to ride fast?

Shane



2015-09-20 12:59 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016

Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by simpsonbo Just remember ... no TT bikes allowed in DL & no shorty bars either. I looking forward to racing with less on an arms race for kit.
And a nice easy swim for you to exit the water with some people ready to ride fast? Shane

Haha!  Easy for Bo, but not most others.

 

2015-09-20 2:10 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by simpsonbo Just remember ... no TT bikes allowed in DL & no shorty bars either. I looking forward to racing with less on an arms race for kit.
And a nice easy swim for you to exit the water with some people ready to ride fast? Shane

Haha!  Easy for Bo, but not most others.

 




For sure - I'm excited for the format as I love draft legal but the thought of being in a pack on race day with a bunch of average triathletes is nothing short of terrifying.

Shane
2015-09-20 7:51 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
The arms race for bike / aero kit is severly blunted in this format.

2015-09-20 8:25 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016

Just stay far away from anyone racing for Venezuela.....they are apparently all descendants of Japanese kamikaze pilots.

2015-09-20 9:17 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016

Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by simpsonbo Just remember ... no TT bikes allowed in DL & no shorty bars either. I looking forward to racing with less on an arms race for kit.
And a nice easy swim for you to exit the water with some people ready to ride fast? Shane

Haha!  Easy for Bo, but not most others.

 

For sure - I'm excited for the format as I love draft legal but the thought of being in a pack on race day with a bunch of average triathletes is nothing short of terrifying. Shane

Yesterday, part of my ride went through what was essentially a bar crawl on a bike. It was exactly the same as a number of triathlons I've done.



2015-09-21 8:00 AM
in reply to: dougie2008

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
This makes a big shift away from triathlons being an individual sport towards a team sport. As someone that does this for fun that's not a positive shift. This shifts the balance more to teams of cyclists, and great cyclists.

Cycling is my best segment in a triathlon, and I love drafting when I'm not in a triathlon. The speed in a good draft line is phenomenal, and loads of fun. But that means getting people together in the draft line. For the best speed results that's going to be teams, whether formal or informal.

Trusting random people in a triathlon at 30 mph in a draft line would be a stretch. I was watching some racing with pro teams this weekend and one of them had a team member go down and the guy behind him went down from hitting the down bike as well. And that was a pro team in a time trial with no one else on the road with them.

2015-09-21 8:12 AM
in reply to: waynec

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016

Originally posted by waynec This makes a big shift away from triathlons being an individual sport towards a team sport. As someone that does this for fun that's not a positive shift. This shifts the balance more to teams of cyclists, and great cyclists. Cycling is my best segment in a triathlon, and I love drafting when I'm not in a triathlon. The speed in a good draft line is phenomenal, and loads of fun. But that means getting people together in the draft line. For the best speed results that's going to be teams, whether formal or informal. Trusting random people in a triathlon at 30 mph in a draft line would be a stretch. I was watching some racing with pro teams this weekend and one of them had a team member go down and the guy behind him went down from hitting the down bike as well. And that was a pro team in a time trial with no one else on the road with them.

It shifts the emphasis more towards balanced triathletes who don't have any relative weaknesses.  Non-draft races favor great cyclists.  Because the bike is the longest leg, it allows the most time for a strong cyclist/weak swimmer to compensate for the swim.  In drafting races, the strong cyclist/weak swimmer is at a huge disadvantage, because they're going to miss the lead pack on the bike, and are left in the position of chasing them down, which is more likely to burn too many matches to run well.

Yes, there will be more crashes, especially initially, but eventually, athletes will either develop the necessary handling skills, or choose non-draft events.

 

2015-09-21 8:27 AM
in reply to: waynec

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016

Originally posted by waynec This makes a big shift away from triathlons being an individual sport towards a team sport. As someone that does this for fun that's not a positive shift. This shifts the balance more to teams of cyclists, and great cyclists. Cycling is my best segment in a triathlon, and I love drafting when I'm not in a triathlon. The speed in a good draft line is phenomenal, and loads of fun. But that means getting people together in the draft line. For the best speed results that's going to be teams, whether formal or informal. Trusting random people in a triathlon at 30 mph in a draft line would be a stretch. I was watching some racing with pro teams this weekend and one of them had a team member go down and the guy behind him went down from hitting the down bike as well. And that was a pro team in a time trial with no one else on the road with them.

You have it exactly backwards.  Draft Legal racing favors strong swimmers and runners.

2015-09-21 8:40 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by waynec This makes a big shift away from triathlons being an individual sport towards a team sport. As someone that does this for fun that's not a positive shift. This shifts the balance more to teams of cyclists, and great cyclists. Cycling is my best segment in a triathlon, and I love drafting when I'm not in a triathlon. The speed in a good draft line is phenomenal, and loads of fun. But that means getting people together in the draft line. For the best speed results that's going to be teams, whether formal or informal. Trusting random people in a triathlon at 30 mph in a draft line would be a stretch. I was watching some racing with pro teams this weekend and one of them had a team member go down and the guy behind him went down from hitting the down bike as well. And that was a pro team in a time trial with no one else on the road with them.

It shifts the emphasis more towards balanced triathletes who don't have any relative weaknesses.  Non-draft races favor great cyclists.  Because the bike is the longest leg, it allows the most time for a strong cyclist/weak swimmer to compensate for the swim.  In drafting races, the strong cyclist/weak swimmer is at a huge disadvantage, because they're going to miss the lead pack on the bike, and are left in the position of chasing them down, which is more likely to burn too many matches to run well.

Yes, there will be more crashes, especially initially, but eventually, athletes will either develop the necessary handling skills, or choose non-draft events.

 




Not to mention if you have someone in a pack that is a hazard to everyone else, the group will work together to drop that person. If your not good in a pack chances are you can't handle the fast accelerations of a group ride.
2015-09-21 8:59 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016

Draft legal favors the runners as long as you can make the right group in the swim.



2015-09-21 8:59 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016

Quite a bit of the "crash factor" depends on the course too.  If it's not a technical course you won't have many problems.  The other thing to remember is that packs mostly form with riders of similar skill, as Mike761 just said, and if you find yourself in a pack that you can't work with then you find someone in that pack and jump ahead. 

It will NOT be the crashfest everyone seems to think it will.  BUT......you can bet you'll miss the best part of the race if you are not a good swimmer.

2015-09-21 9:07 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
Good to know. Hope they can't swim with me
2015-09-21 9:22 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016

Originally posted by simpsonbo Good to know. Hope they can't swim with me

I hope a couple can.....you guys will be GONE.

2015-09-22 8:27 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
?just need a group of 3 or so and leapfrog in and out of the other groups.
2015-09-22 9:58 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
Originally posted by TriMyBest

It shifts the emphasis more towards balanced triathletes who don't have any relative weaknesses.



Except for those who aren't experienced bike racing in packs...which is most tri competitors. And it's not a skill that's easily acquired for the average competitor, who typically trains solo or with a single partner.


If the intent was to shift emphasis towards "balanced" triathletes, why not shorten the bike and lengthen the swim? A 2.5k swim, 25k bike, 10 k run event would be a more fitting test of who was the most balanced athlete in the three disciplines.


2015-09-22 10:03 AM
in reply to: gary p

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016

Originally posted by gary p
Originally posted by TriMyBest

It shifts the emphasis more towards balanced triathletes who don't have any relative weaknesses.

Except for those who aren't experienced bike racing in packs...which is most tri competitors. And it's not a skill that's easily acquired for the average competitor, who typically trains solo or with a single partner. If the intent was to shift emphasis towards "balanced" triathletes, why not shorten the bike and lengthen the swim? A 2.5k swim, 25k bike, 10 k run event would be a more fitting test of who was the most balanced athlete in the three disciplines.

righhttttt

 

actually, if you look at the Olympic distance, the time gaps among the 3 sports are similar.  an olmypic tri is a fairly balanced race

2015-09-22 10:48 AM
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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016
Originally posted by gary p
Originally posted by TriMyBest

It shifts the emphasis more towards balanced triathletes who don't have any relative weaknesses.

Except for those who aren't experienced bike racing in packs...which is most tri competitors. And it's not a skill that's easily acquired for the average competitor, who typically trains solo or with a single partner. If the intent was to shift emphasis towards "balanced" triathletes, why not shorten the bike and lengthen the swim? A 2.5k swim, 25k bike, 10 k run event would be a more fitting test of who was the most balanced athlete in the three disciplines.
No. The athletes without cycling skills tend to be dropped on the bike. The format effectively penalizes athletes with any weaknesses if they're trying to be competitive. ETA - the easiest way to acquire bike skills is to ride regularly with roadies. It's not that much of a barrier. Also, it's good for ALL AG triathletes to do some group rides. The surges are good interval training, and the handling skills they develop are helpful, even in non drafting races.

Edited by TriMyBest 2015-09-22 10:52 AM
2015-09-22 11:00 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016

Originally posted by TriMyBest
Originally posted by gary p
Originally posted by TriMyBest

It shifts the emphasis more towards balanced triathletes who don't have any relative weaknesses.

Except for those who aren't experienced bike racing in packs...which is most tri competitors. And it's not a skill that's easily acquired for the average competitor, who typically trains solo or with a single partner. If the intent was to shift emphasis towards "balanced" triathletes, why not shorten the bike and lengthen the swim? A 2.5k swim, 25k bike, 10 k run event would be a more fitting test of who was the most balanced athlete in the three disciplines.
No. The athletes without cycling skills tend to be dropped on the bike. The format effectively penalizes athletes with any weaknesses if they're trying to be competitive. ETA - the easiest way to acquire bike skills is to ride regularly with roadies. It's not that much of a barrier. Also, it's good for ALL AG triathletes to do some group rides. The surges are good interval training, and the handling skills they develop are helpful, even in non drafting races.

Have to say I am not happy with the thought of draft legal tris.  This will hurt most  people if you are not a really good runner.  I tend to be above ave. at all 3 sports, but not great at any one (maybe cycling).  So I can come out o.k. on the swim, catch a good group and make up some time on the bike, but even at 7:30 miles on the run, I will be toast to really good runners who just hang on during the bike.

Also, I like riding/racing on my Tri-bike.  That is a big waste.  Non-draft legal tris provide the most accurate individual race experience.  You get what you sow....

As for those who worry about pack riding.  I think if more races follow this format, you will see triathletes learn these skills.  It takes practice and Triathletes have shown they will learn the skill to help them be competitive.  (Think learning to swim, riding a tri bike for the first time, etc.)  Many people ride alone because tri bikes are not always welcome at group rides.  I don't see this as being such a big deal.  I remember learning to ride with groups.  (Time/Practice)

2015-09-22 11:43 AM
in reply to: velocomp

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Subject: RE: ITU Draft legal change for 2016

Originally posted by velocomp

Originally posted by TriMyBest
Originally posted by gary p
Originally posted by TriMyBest

It shifts the emphasis more towards balanced triathletes who don't have any relative weaknesses.

Except for those who aren't experienced bike racing in packs...which is most tri competitors. And it's not a skill that's easily acquired for the average competitor, who typically trains solo or with a single partner. If the intent was to shift emphasis towards "balanced" triathletes, why not shorten the bike and lengthen the swim? A 2.5k swim, 25k bike, 10 k run event would be a more fitting test of who was the most balanced athlete in the three disciplines.
No. The athletes without cycling skills tend to be dropped on the bike. The format effectively penalizes athletes with any weaknesses if they're trying to be competitive. ETA - the easiest way to acquire bike skills is to ride regularly with roadies. It's not that much of a barrier. Also, it's good for ALL AG triathletes to do some group rides. The surges are good interval training, and the handling skills they develop are helpful, even in non drafting races.

Have to say I am not happy with the thought of draft legal tris.  This will hurt most  people if you are not a really good runner.  I tend to be above ave. at all 3 sports, but not great at any one (maybe cycling).  So I can come out o.k. on the swim, catch a good group and make up some time on the bike, but even at 7:30 miles on the run, I will be toast to really good runners who just hang on during the bike.

Also, I like riding/racing on my Tri-bike.  That is a big waste.  Non-draft legal tris provide the most accurate individual race experience.  You get what you sow....

As for those who worry about pack riding.  I think if more races follow this format, you will see triathletes learn these skills.  It takes practice and Triathletes have shown they will learn the skill to help them be competitive.  (Think learning to swim, riding a tri bike for the first time, etc.)  Many people ride alone because tri bikes are not always welcome at group rides.  I don't see this as being such a big deal.  I remember learning to ride with groups.  (Time/Practice)

It has been my experience that the fastest guys in DL racing are still the fastest guys in non-draft.  The reverse is not always true because of bike handling skills.  DL racers are far and away the most skilled triathletes.  It will up everyone's game.

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