Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season
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2015-10-06 9:10 AM |
1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season I do not want it to sound like a silly question, but I am preparing my training strategy for off season. I am not concerned about the speed of my swim. At least not yet. I need to learn first and build the distance. And confidence. As for the run and bike – what I have read (here as well) is that mileage and “just keep running/biking” are the ways to get faster. I do not want to invest in fancy accessories, if that is not necessary. My run pace was over 11 minutes last year and it is now 8:40 for 5k, and I understand this may be a bit slower for 10k. Biking is around 17 mph, but it’s my first year on the bike, and I cannot really compare it. Therefore, it is hard for me to evaluate my progress/effort/abilities for bike leg. My goal for next year is Olympic distance. And I would also like to speed it up as much as I can. I am not ambitious for a podium, just doing better than I’ve done this year. Thanks! Mary |
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2015-10-06 9:33 AM in reply to: marysia83 |
Regular 1161 Hamilton, IL | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season run more and bike harder. if you can afford a bike trainer, even a cheap one, it will do wonders. If you can force yourself to do some good interval workouts on it, even better. If you can't do them on your own, then get a good video to bike to like those from Sufferfest. I swear by them. If you must focus, I think the bike is always a good place to focus. Every race that I do, it comes down to the bike.. The guy that wins is almost always the fastest on the bike. The guy that runs fast is second, and the guy that swims fast is third. There does get to be a point where you just need to be fastest in all, but that's a good rule of thumb from my experience. the nice thing about biking and running is that a lot of the fitness translates. So you'll get faster at running by cycling and the same holds true that if you get faster at running, you should get better at cycling. |
2015-10-06 9:52 AM in reply to: marysia83 |
66 | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season The number one for me would be to join a gym (or buy the kit yourself) and work on your core strength. Dead lifts, power cleans, squats, kettle bell swings, dumb bell chest press will all work muscles you will be calling on when racing in addition to giving you stability in running and cycling. Try to stick to free weights as these will recruit supporting muscles, rather than using machines. If you're new to resistance work I'd join a gym and get some instruction. And, I'd work up the weights slowly rather than diving in with heavy weights otherwise you risk injury. |
2015-10-06 10:10 AM in reply to: marysia83 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season I'll change what Danno said slightly. Run more often and bike harder. |
2015-10-06 10:16 AM in reply to: marysia83 |
1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Thank you so much for making it more clear for me. I truly appreciate it. I will think of the bike trainer - it does sound interesting and is not that expensive. And I could do it at home anytime I have joined a gym - I am lucky enough my workplace has a huge athletic center next to my building and I go there every day on my lunch break. I recently decided to go to core classes, as it seems the strong core is a must for all three disciplines. Thanks again! Mary |
2015-10-06 11:00 AM in reply to: marysia83 |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season |
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2015-10-06 9:40 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by bcagle25 How often are you currently running? How long are you running in total per week? Here's the problem - I can only do as much as I can do. Timewise. I only train during lunch breaks and when my kids have swim classes on Saturday. Once in a while they visit their friends over the weekend and I use that time for training too. Basically, I use any free time for training. But it does not add up much. Some numbers: 4 days a week - one hour training, which is usually 30 minutes of swim or spin/core class + up to 30 minutes of run. Once in a while I may do one full hour of just run. 1 day a week (Saturday) - around 45 - 60 minutes for the run Up until now my training was all over the place because of the summer and all family/summer activities, plus races, but now I am planning to get more serious with the above schedule. I will have half marathon in April'16, so eventually I will have to figure out something for Saturday's long runs. So for now I think I could say I will be doing around 20 miles per week? Mary |
2015-10-07 8:19 AM in reply to: marysia83 |
Extreme Veteran 1018 | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Google BarryP running plan. Can you dedicate 4 hours a week spreading the time over 6 days of running? Then add 10% to the total time each week? (base_plan.png) Attachments ---------------- base_plan.png (22KB - 10 downloads) |
2015-10-07 8:37 AM in reply to: marysia83 |
Master 6834 Englewood, Florida | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Were I you, I'd strive for consistency. Running more often, as some mentioned, will help get the body more comfortable with running. This will help you speed up a bit. Note that "more often" may not mean more mileage. Someone mentioned going harder on the bike. What I have found very helpful in this regard is two different items. One has been to add intervals to my solo rides. There is no need for fancy equipment, just a willingness to ride hard to the next telephone pole, or street corner, or the county line. Do it more often during rides, with less rest/recovery between intervals. Number 2 is that riding in a group has pushed me . I often ride with the stronger group and I may not be able to keep up for the whole ride, but each time out I get dropped later in the ride. I take that as a win. If you have a Local Bike Store that does group rides, or a local bike club, you may be able to hook up with some of their group rides. The challenge looks like your schedule and group riding may not work together. |
2015-10-07 9:44 AM in reply to: GAUG3 |
Extreme Veteran 1018 | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by GAUG3 Google BarryP running plan. Can you dedicate 4 hours a week spreading the time over 6 days of running? Then add 10% to the total time each week? All of these runs will be zone 1 and 2. Since I focus on 70.3s, I will repeat weeks 8, 9 & 10 until I get about 12 weeks out from my first race. Then I will will throw in a tempo run for one of those medium runs. When I'm 6 weeks out from a race, I will throw in tempo\speed work for the other medium run. |
2015-10-07 10:46 AM in reply to: GAUG3 |
319 Sarasota, Florida | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season I'm surprised nobody suggest committing a day to just one sport. If you look at some of the sprint training plans many are 5 day weeks where most of the workouts only focus on one. Personally, I don't see how people can bike and run so frequently. I was on a 6 day week plan I cooked up myself using various sources, but this also included weight training. I tried to balance my endurance and anaerobic stuff so I could find a day or two to recover in each. Just before my peak week my body was telling me it needed more rest, so I took an extra day off before hitting the trails again a little harder. When I read these schedules that include running and biking everyday I realize it's a different league. I admit, I do try a brick once a week. I'm all ears for tips on the bike too. Improving my bike has proven the most stubborn but I haven't tried interval work yet. |
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2015-10-07 11:57 AM in reply to: runtim23 |
Master 6834 Englewood, Florida | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by runtim23 I'm surprised nobody suggest committing a day to just one sport. If you look at some of the sprint training plans many are 5 day weeks where most of the workouts only focus on one. Personally, I don't see how people can bike and run so frequently. I was on a 6 day week plan I cooked up myself using various sources, but this also included weight training. I tried to balance my endurance and anaerobic stuff so I could find a day or two to recover in each. Just before my peak week my body was telling me it needed more rest, so I took an extra day off before hitting the trails again a little harder. When I read these schedules that include running and biking everyday I realize it's a different league. I admit, I do try a brick once a week. I'm all ears for tips on the bike too. Improving my bike has proven the most stubborn but I haven't tried interval work yet. I look at 2 a days as a morning/night commitment, not a bric. Today was an EZ 30 minute run this morning and I'll do an hour on the bike after work. Some of that hour will be dedicated to intervals. My reasoning is that the time running is time well spent. The time biking is time spent improving bike abilities. To the OP's point of time constraints, this may not work. One of the other aspects that someone here stressed to me a long time ago is to have a purpose to each workout. That doesn't mean every workout has to be fast/hard/intense. To the contrary, it may simply be recovery or an EZ day to work on another aspect like form. But you should know what and why to a certain degree. Also, if I am on a 3s/3b/3r cycle, then I'll have 3 double days, 3 single days and a rest day. |
2015-10-07 1:26 PM in reply to: GAUG3 |
1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by GAUG3 Google BarryP running plan. Can you dedicate 4 hours a week spreading the time over 6 days of running? Then add 10% to the total time each week? This is great! Thank you for sharing. I created similar excel spreadsheet based on his instructions. I can do it as long as the run fits in my lunch break time limit Which I'm pretty sure may help a lot. I read some comments from people who found this plan helpful. Mary |
2015-10-07 1:29 PM in reply to: runtim23 |
1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by runtim23 I'm surprised nobody suggest committing a day to just one sport. If you look at some of the sprint training plans many are 5 day weeks where most of the workouts only focus on one. Personally, I don't see how people can bike and run so frequently. I was on a 6 day week plan I cooked up myself using various sources, but this also included weight training. I tried to balance my endurance and anaerobic stuff so I could find a day or two to recover in each. Just before my peak week my body was telling me it needed more rest, so I took an extra day off before hitting the trails again a little harder. When I read these schedules that include running and biking everyday I realize it's a different league. I admit, I do try a brick once a week. I'm all ears for tips on the bike too. Improving my bike has proven the most stubborn but I haven't tried interval work yet. Thanks for your feedback. I was thinking about it and once in a while I do have "one sport" days. It is easier to run or bike for an hour, than swim (given my limited swimming skills). So on the days I swim or do core class, I have half an hour for one more discipline. So my weekly training is a mix of things, I should say. Doing my best to manage all of these. Mary |
2015-10-07 1:32 PM in reply to: cdban66 |
1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by cdban66 Were I you, I'd strive for consistency. Running more often, as some mentioned, will help get the body more comfortable with running. This will help you speed up a bit. Note that "more often" may not mean more mileage. Someone mentioned going harder on the bike. What I have found very helpful in this regard is two different items. One has been to add intervals to my solo rides. There is no need for fancy equipment, just a willingness to ride hard to the next telephone pole, or street corner, or the county line. Do it more often during rides, with less rest/recovery between intervals. Number 2 is that riding in a group has pushed me . I often ride with the stronger group and I may not be able to keep up for the whole ride, but each time out I get dropped later in the ride. I take that as a win. If you have a Local Bike Store that does group rides, or a local bike club, you may be able to hook up with some of their group rides. The challenge looks like your schedule and group riding may not work together. Being more comfortable with running is super important for me, because I.... hate running. I mean - I like it, but so many times I quickly reach the point where I ask myself "why the hell are you doing this for yourself???" And I agree that getting used to the runs should help mentally. Group riding is not an option for me this or next year, but it does sound like it is motivating. And fun. I like your idea of intervals - I will definitely try those. Thanks! Mary |
2015-10-07 2:17 PM in reply to: marysia83 |
Master 6834 Englewood, Florida | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by marysia83 Originally posted by cdban66 Being more comfortable with running is super important for me, because I.... hate running. I mean - I like it, but so many times I quickly reach the point where I ask myself "why the hell are you doing this for yourself???" And I agree that getting used to the runs should help mentally. Group riding is not an option for me this or next year, but it does sound like it is motivating. And fun. I like your idea of intervals - I will definitely try those. Thanks! Mary Were I you, I'd strive for consistency. Running more often, as some mentioned, will help get the body more comfortable with running. This will help you speed up a bit. Note that "more often" may not mean more mileage. Someone mentioned going harder on the bike. What I have found very helpful in this regard is two different items. One has been to add intervals to my solo rides. There is no need for fancy equipment, just a willingness to ride hard to the next telephone pole, or street corner, or the county line. Do it more often during rides, with less rest/recovery between intervals. Number 2 is that riding in a group has pushed me . I often ride with the stronger group and I may not be able to keep up for the whole ride, but each time out I get dropped later in the ride. I take that as a win. If you have a Local Bike Store that does group rides, or a local bike club, you may be able to hook up with some of their group rides. The challenge looks like your schedule and group riding may not work together. I thought the group ride option was not for you, but I figured I throw it out there anyway. One other aspect of this that has struck me lately is how much easier it is in year 4 than it was in year 1. I attribute that to base building, repitition, and a bit of consistency. It took me a couple years to figure out what my body is telling me. And I am starting to get comfortable with pushing myself more. All that. combined with more knowledge in general and I'm finally beginning to make some headway on a few things. I admit, I have taken a while to figure stuff out, hopefully you are a bit quicker on the uptake. I'll never be fast, as that is not my sole objective, but I will be faster. For me, the fun matters. Enjoy it all as much as you can! |
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2015-10-07 3:38 PM in reply to: cdban66 |
1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by cdban66 Originally posted by marysia83 Originally posted by cdban66 Being more comfortable with running is super important for me, because I.... hate running. I mean - I like it, but so many times I quickly reach the point where I ask myself "why the hell are you doing this for yourself???" And I agree that getting used to the runs should help mentally. Group riding is not an option for me this or next year, but it does sound like it is motivating. And fun. I like your idea of intervals - I will definitely try those. Thanks! Mary Were I you, I'd strive for consistency. Running more often, as some mentioned, will help get the body more comfortable with running. This will help you speed up a bit. Note that "more often" may not mean more mileage. Someone mentioned going harder on the bike. What I have found very helpful in this regard is two different items. One has been to add intervals to my solo rides. There is no need for fancy equipment, just a willingness to ride hard to the next telephone pole, or street corner, or the county line. Do it more often during rides, with less rest/recovery between intervals. Number 2 is that riding in a group has pushed me . I often ride with the stronger group and I may not be able to keep up for the whole ride, but each time out I get dropped later in the ride. I take that as a win. If you have a Local Bike Store that does group rides, or a local bike club, you may be able to hook up with some of their group rides. The challenge looks like your schedule and group riding may not work together. I thought the group ride option was not for you, but I figured I throw it out there anyway. One other aspect of this that has struck me lately is how much easier it is in year 4 than it was in year 1. I attribute that to base building, repitition, and a bit of consistency. It took me a couple years to figure out what my body is telling me. And I am starting to get comfortable with pushing myself more. All that. combined with more knowledge in general and I'm finally beginning to make some headway on a few things. I admit, I have taken a while to figure stuff out, hopefully you are a bit quicker on the uptake. I'll never be fast, as that is not my sole objective, but I will be faster. For me, the fun matters. Enjoy it all as much as you can! I cannot agree more on the first year(s) experience. I made so many mistakes in my first year (it was running only) - from training, through injuries, to eating habits. The more knowledge, experience, and resources we have - the more fun, enjoyment, and safety we have. When it comes to fast and faster - I don't think I would ever be elite-fast, but what I love about performing better is that I am surprising myself with what my body (and mind) can handle and the progress I'm making. Thanks for your support. ANd for the group riding comment too - I may not be able to do it now, but maybe some other year. Mary |
2015-10-07 3:54 PM in reply to: #5144990 |
928 | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Side question here: As a runner I've never actually done the BarryP plan, but have followed essentially that principle all along. Run more, run more often, spreading mileage over more days. It works. What I'm wondering is if triathletes who follow that plan do it in a dedicated running training block or all the time? Personally I find it hard to follow a 6-day/week running plan when I'm also cycling and swimming. |
2015-10-07 4:21 PM in reply to: jennifer_runs |
1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by jennifer_runs Side question here: As a runner I've never actually done the BarryP plan, but have followed essentially that principle all along. Run more, run more often, spreading mileage over more days. It works. What I'm wondering is if triathletes who follow that plan do it in a dedicated running training block or all the time? Personally I find it hard to follow a 6-day/week running plan when I'm also cycling and swimming. I can only speak from my own experience and - since my schedule is so limited - I have no choice. Also, I am training for Sprint and Olympic distance, so it is easier. For me running after any exercise feel so much better. I feel more energy after the swim. I also noticed my run pace is more constant if running after swimming. Mary |
2015-10-07 5:30 PM in reply to: jennifer_runs |
Extreme Veteran 1018 | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by jennifer_runs Side question here: As a runner I've never actually done the BarryP plan, but have followed essentially that principle all along. Run more, run more often, spreading mileage over more days. It works. What I'm wondering is if triathletes who follow that plan do it in a dedicated running training block or all the time? Personally I find it hard to follow a 6-day/week running plan when I'm also cycling and swimming. I do all my weekday rides on a trainer. I will ride an hour on the 3 short rides and do a long ride outdoors (2-3 hours) on the weekend. I swim on the medium run days. Closer to race day, I will start doing tempo and speed work. |
2015-10-07 5:44 PM in reply to: GAUG3 |
928 | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season I guess my question wasn't clear... I was wondering do people run 6 days per week PLUS biking and swimming, or is the 6-day plan for off-season run focus? |
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2015-10-07 5:56 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by jennifer_runs I guess my question wasn't clear... I was wondering do people run 6 days per week PLUS biking and swimming, or is the 6-day plan for off-season run focus? I usually do 6x per week along with S&B. Sometimes 5, rarely less. In a run focus like the ST100/100 I run 7x. With BarryP, at 6x per week, 3 of those runs are short and easy, so I do them on a hard S or B day. It's easy to schedule a 30min run before morning shower. I used to do them with the dog but he made it clear he's too old for this ..... Most of my days are doubles : S&R or B&R Edited by marcag 2015-10-07 6:17 PM |
2015-10-07 6:18 PM in reply to: GAUG3 |
240 | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by GAUG3 Originally posted by jennifer_runs Side question here: As a runner I've never actually done the BarryP plan, but have followed essentially that principle all along. Run more, run more often, spreading mileage over more days. It works. What I'm wondering is if triathletes who follow that plan do it in a dedicated running training block or all the time? Personally I find it hard to follow a 6-day/week running plan when I'm also cycling and swimming. I do all my weekday rides on a trainer. I will ride an hour on the 3 short rides and do a long ride outdoors (2-3 hours) on the weekend. I swim on the medium run days. Closer to race day, I will start doing tempo and speed work. Bike trainer can be your friend, especially if you have family. This past winter I did 2-3 rides per week on my trainer for about an hour. After the kids went to bed with TV on in the background. But definitely try to have a plan for each workout. It keeps you motivated and fights boredom. Tues was shorter interval day, 4x4 min at 105% effort with 1 min easy. And Thurs was a little longer interval 2x15' or 3x10' at 90%. I used a power meter but you can certainly work off perceived effort. Weekends were longer either solo rides or group efforts and lots of hills thrown in for good measure. |
2015-10-07 6:24 PM in reply to: marcag |
928 | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by jennifer_runs I guess my question wasn't clear... I was wondering do people run 6 days per week PLUS biking and swimming, or is the 6-day plan for off-season run focus? I usually do 6x per week along with S&B. Sometimes 5, rarely less. In a run focus like the ST100/100 I run 7x. With BarryP, at 6x per week, 3 of those runs are short and easy, so I do them on a hard S or B day. It's easy to schedule a 30min run before morning shower. I used to do them with the dog but he made it clear he's too old for this ..... I think I am too. |
2015-10-07 6:32 PM in reply to: StevenC |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Getting faster on run/bike - strategy for off season Originally posted by StevenC Bike trainer can be your friend, especially if you have family. This past winter I did 2-3 rides per week on my trainer for about an hour. After the kids went to bed with TV on in the background. But definitely try to have a plan for each workout. It keeps you motivated and fights boredom. Tues was shorter interval day, 4x4 min at 105% effort with 1 min easy. And Thurs was a little longer interval 2x15' or 3x10' at 90%. I used a power meter but you can certainly work off perceived effort. Weekends were longer either solo rides or group efforts and lots of hills thrown in for good measure. 100% agree. Bonus, I have an erg trainer where I can program the power level I want to maintain. I don't even have to look. I can even work on the trainer. If I had a $ for every Webex i did on the trainer, I'd be retired :-) |
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