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2015-10-16 6:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
Originally posted by zedzded
  • Show me a video of someone caning up and down the pool doing 1.10/100s using TI principles. Or some race footage with a FOP swimmer using TI principles.






  • LOL-- Only a triathlete would think 1:10/100 is fast!


    2015-10-16 7:14 AM
    in reply to: zedzded

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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????

    Originally posted by zedzded I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with some of the TI principles, but from a competitive swimming perspective it's not something a swimmer wanting to improve their performance, should pay much attention to. Just looking at a few videos, one of the fundamental flaws with TI is the glide and low stroke rate. This video below really exemplifies why excessive glide is bad. I say excessive glide, because it's virtually impossible to eliminate any form of glide. Even Sun Yang, who has awesome technique, glides, albeit for about 0.2 of a second. Watch the underwater footage, he extends his lead arm and instead of initiating the catch and pull straight away, he leaves it there for a good second. If you watch as the arm extends and remains there his whole body decelerates, he goes into his catch and pull and accelerates again, then glides and decelerates. I don't see this as an efficient way of swimming at all. The only positive word I can use to describe it, is graceful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJpFVvho0o4This one below is really bad. He decelerates fairly significantly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC8ZZZhabp4Try swimming like that in the open ocean with wind and swell and you'd probably sink.

     

    2015-10-16 8:05 AM
    in reply to: mike761

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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    Originally posted by mike761

    Originally posted by zedzded
  • Show me a video of someone caning up and down the pool doing 1.10/100s using TI principles. Or some race footage with a FOP swimmer using TI principles.


  • LOL-- Only a triathlete would think 1:10/100 is fast!



    I'd take it
    2015-10-16 8:07 AM
    in reply to: TriMyBest


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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    Originally posted by TriMyBest

    Originally posted by zedzded I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with some of the TI principles, but from a competitive swimming perspective it's not something a swimmer wanting to improve their performance, should pay much attention to. Just looking at a few videos, one of the fundamental flaws with TI is the glide and low stroke rate. This video below really exemplifies why excessive glide is bad. I say excessive glide, because it's virtually impossible to eliminate any form of glide. Even Sun Yang, who has awesome technique, glides, albeit for about 0.2 of a second. Watch the underwater footage, he extends his lead arm and instead of initiating the catch and pull straight away, he leaves it there for a good second. If you watch as the arm extends and remains there his whole body decelerates, he goes into his catch and pull and accelerates again, then glides and decelerates. I don't see this as an efficient way of swimming at all. The only positive word I can use to describe it, is graceful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJpFVvho0o4This one below is really bad. He decelerates fairly significantly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC8ZZZhabp4Try swimming like that in the open ocean with wind and swell and you'd probably sink.

     




    So do I!
    2015-10-16 8:31 AM
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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????

    Originally posted by marcag
    Originally posted by mike761
    Originally posted by zedzded . Show me a video of someone caning up and down the pool doing 1.10/100s using TI principles. Or some race footage with a FOP swimmer using TI principles.
    LOL-- Only a triathlete would think 1:10/100 is fast!
    I'd take it

    So would the first guys out of the water at Kona.

    ETA:  Obviously ows and pool are apples and oranges, but my point is that pace numbers are meaningless without context.  1:10 / 100 is very fast in long course ows triathlons, but not so fast for an AGer swimming 1 x 100yds in a pool.

     

     



    Edited by TriMyBest 2015-10-16 8:34 AM
    2015-10-16 8:38 AM
    in reply to: TriMyBest


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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    And I was talking metres not yards.


    2015-10-16 10:45 AM
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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    Originally posted by TriMyBest

    Originally posted by marcag
    Originally posted by mike761
    Originally posted by zedzded . Show me a video of someone caning up and down the pool doing 1.10/100s using TI principles. Or some race footage with a FOP swimmer using TI principles.
    LOL-- Only a triathlete would think 1:10/100 is fast!
    I'd take it

    So would the first guys out of the water at Kona.

    ETA:  Obviously ows and pool are apples and oranges, but my point is that pace numbers are meaningless without context.  1:10 / 100 is very fast in long course ows triathlons, but not so fast for an AGer swimming 1 x 100yds in a pool.

     

     




    Correct without context it means nothing.
    He did say in the pool and 1:10/100s; with the "s" referring to sets of 100's which is easily done by most of the people that will KQ.

    Like I said before people should specify when they talk about their(or a) 100 time; yards, meters, pool, OWS, continuous or long distance swim, sets of 100's, or a single 100 all out.
    2015-10-16 12:27 PM
    in reply to: Left Brain

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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????

    Originally posted by Left Brain

    I don't think I understand why TI is so controversial.  I read one of the books and watched online videos a number of years back and used some of the principles/drills extensively over a winter.  I'm not a good swimmer but it helped me then.  I would imagine a TI coach, in person, could also help my swim.  I know quite a few top level swim coaches who don't use TI, but they are familiar with it and don't bash it.  I think the advice that Suzanne gives is solid, as is her reputation as a coach.  Still, for as long as I can remember, and on every triathlon board I've ever looked at or been a part of, there is a constant argument over TI vs. "conventional" swimming/coaching (whatever that is).  I don't get it.  I watch a lot of swim practice, with top level coaches on deck.  I recognize some of the things they teach from what little I know about TI....so there is definately some crossover (after all, it's swimming, it's been around awhile, there isn't any "new" swimming).  Still......there seems to be non-stop controversy on any thread about TI.

     

    Jumping into this late and didn't read every post, but I'll answer your question. For the record though I think TI is a good thing, you just need to know what TI is and what TI isn't.  The problem I have with it is that it treats the symptoms and doesn't fix the cause. Balance is a big thing in TI. Most of a clinic is (or was) focused on it. By telling you to press your 'T' or your 'buoy', they never address the why. In conventional swimming, much less time is taken up over 'balance' because the problem is addressed. The biggest culprit is swimming is the pull. If you fix the pull and create a more effective pull, then balance issues are largely eliminated. (For beginners it's usually head position, and that is a 10 second fix). So conventional swimming fixes your pull(as an example) and that increased speed lifts your body. In TI you bury your chest and continue to swim with a horrible stroke. This is just one example. low hanging fruit if you will. 

    Now is all that necessarily bad? Nope. If you're a beginner and are out of breath and struggling to get across the pool, TI is a great way to go. The cart is before the horse so to speak, but that swimmer needs to get comfortable in swimming so that they dont freak out or give up. So they press the 'buoy' and now they can swim laps, enter a tri, and feel great improvement about where they are. It's a wonderful thing. 

    Now that swimmer has been doing their thing a while and can't get faster. They can swim all day, but can't seem to get to the FOP. Reason? The same thing that got them where they are. They never fixed the problems in their stroke. So they try and swim harder with poor form and make little progress. 

    So then you get into these 2 camps. The TI people who think it's a cure all say you can go fast. The swim purists who think you should have never done TI in the first place claim it's the devil. Me? I think TI is great, as long as you know what it is and what it is not. Great for getting people relaxed and training, not so great if you want to come out of the water first. 

    2015-10-16 12:54 PM
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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    So, TJ.....it sounds like there's a black hole where beginners who learn to swim (non-TI) by learning a powerful, correct pull......reside until their swim fitness establishes itself?

    My stroke looks like fido's butt when I try TI principles. It just does. I can correct all my body position issues by speeding up (I'm a pure-T beginner and I swim 100scy in 1:33 (when I go all out). My all-out stroke (I've reviewed it on film with my masters coach) looks pretty good. I just can't hold it very long. I get what you're saying above, though. Going faster takes care of a lot of body position issues.

    I swim 100scy in about 2min. going as slow as I can and still maintain enough speed to remove dead spots. It's going to be a while before I can hold that for several hundred yards, though.

    This is in NO WAY casting a bad light on TI. I think TI is wonderful.

    Edited by nc452010 2015-10-16 1:08 PM
    2015-10-16 1:15 PM
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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????

    Originally posted by nc452010 So, TJ.....it sounds like there's a black hole where beginners who learn to swim (non-TI) by learning a powerful, correct pull......reside until their swim fitness establishes itself?

     

    Yes. That black hole is called swim team. Regular swimming of many many yards and constantly being corrected along the way. Good technique takes time and supervision.

    Triathletes don't have time for all that though.......See the rub?

    2015-10-16 1:17 PM
    in reply to: tjfry

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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    I'm swimming 5X/wk (masters) trying to swim out of it (the black hole). What I needed is for someone to tell me exactly what you just did.

    Thanks.


    2015-10-16 1:36 PM
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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????

    Originally posted by tjfry

    Originally posted by Left Brain

    I don't think I understand why TI is so controversial.  I read one of the books and watched online videos a number of years back and used some of the principles/drills extensively over a winter.  I'm not a good swimmer but it helped me then.  I would imagine a TI coach, in person, could also help my swim.  I know quite a few top level swim coaches who don't use TI, but they are familiar with it and don't bash it.  I think the advice that Suzanne gives is solid, as is her reputation as a coach.  Still, for as long as I can remember, and on every triathlon board I've ever looked at or been a part of, there is a constant argument over TI vs. "conventional" swimming/coaching (whatever that is).  I don't get it.  I watch a lot of swim practice, with top level coaches on deck.  I recognize some of the things they teach from what little I know about TI....so there is definately some crossover (after all, it's swimming, it's been around awhile, there isn't any "new" swimming).  Still......there seems to be non-stop controversy on any thread about TI.

     

    Jumping into this late and didn't read every post, but I'll answer your question. For the record though I think TI is a good thing, you just need to know what TI is and what TI isn't.  The problem I have with it is that it treats the symptoms and doesn't fix the cause. Balance is a big thing in TI. Most of a clinic is (or was) focused on it. By telling you to press your 'T' or your 'buoy', they never address the why. In conventional swimming, much less time is taken up over 'balance' because the problem is addressed. The biggest culprit is swimming is the pull. If you fix the pull and create a more effective pull, then balance issues are largely eliminated. (For beginners it's usually head position, and that is a 10 second fix). So conventional swimming fixes your pull(as an example) and that increased speed lifts your body. In TI you bury your chest and continue to swim with a horrible stroke. This is just one example. low hanging fruit if you will. 

    Now is all that necessarily bad? Nope. If you're a beginner and are out of breath and struggling to get across the pool, TI is a great way to go. The cart is before the horse so to speak, but that swimmer needs to get comfortable in swimming so that they dont freak out or give up. So they press the 'buoy' and now they can swim laps, enter a tri, and feel great improvement about where they are. It's a wonderful thing. 

    Now that swimmer has been doing their thing a while and can't get faster. They can swim all day, but can't seem to get to the FOP. Reason? The same thing that got them where they are. They never fixed the problems in their stroke. So they try and swim harder with poor form and make little progress. 

    So then you get into these 2 camps. The TI people who think it's a cure all say you can go fast. The swim purists who think you should have never done TI in the first place claim it's the devil. Me? I think TI is great, as long as you know what it is and what it is not. Great for getting people relaxed and training, not so great if you want to come out of the water first. 

    Yeah, that makes sense and I get it.  Like I have said in the past.....I'm an adult onset "swimmer" who has an actual swimmer in the house, and I get to watch actual swimmers a lot.   I used some of the TI principles from videos and a book a few years before my kid ever got on a swim team....and he got there late....at age 14, and he was already 6'2"....so he's basically adult onset as well.  BUT.......in 3 years he became a swimmer with AAA  and some AAAA times while I was still an adult onset swimmer who was thrilled when I broke 1:30/100.  Of course,  what the coaches did with him looks NOTHING like what I see from TI....but in fairness, he swam a minimum of 7 sessions per week.  Still......he started with kicking and progressed from there, through balance drills, catch and pull drills, etc.....a different method altogther....all made for one thing....swim fast.  I have showed him some TI videos and he's like most kids, he jiust shrugs his shoulderfs and says, "whatever", and doesn't even give it a thought.   Like most kids in his club, he thinks anyone without a sub :50/100 freestlye can't swim....because they already came down through the slower times to get there, and they know how they did it.  It is exactly what you say.......the giant black hole that everyone misses if they want to swim "fast" and never swam for a well coached club.

    It's a giant wake up call for an adult onset swimmer like myself when your son is weighing college opportunities and says, "dad, I can't swim for them.  I swim a 1:46 200....the guys on that team will laugh me out of the pool."   Everybody but tj and a few others, like Mike....... let that sink in for a minute.



    Edited by Left Brain 2015-10-16 1:51 PM
    2015-10-16 1:39 PM
    in reply to: nc452010

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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    Nearly every criticism of TI on this thread comes from a representation of TI that was long gone before I ever had my first exposure. TI does not "teach" low stroke rates and long glides as and end game...i'm not sure how many hundreds of times I've stressed that as have others on this thread with direct exposure to me either in person or in an online learning format (Don/Mark).

    However in any movement oriented sport (what sport isn't?) slowign down the movements to help imprint proprioception and feel for the water is an integral part of many aspects. It's a teaching method. Yes there are downsides to this as well...at slower speeds breathing becomes more challenging, legs tend to splay and it requires a bit if effort to move forward again. But most of the time these are all improvements over where the swimmer arrived with little sense of core control, balance, front and back working together, or any awareness of the water itself.

    TI is also a philosophy. We address energy efficient ways to improve FIRST over energy expensive ways to improve. In TJ's case he described how better pull mechanics can improve balance. That's true and there are many people, more often lean mean, in whom without forward momentum they'll never have good balance. But many people rely on these energy expensive ways to fix balance which creates fatigue and runs into fitness limitations.

    We spend time on balance by using awareness of the core, muscle relaxation, head position. arm extension (rebalancing weight forward of the fulcrum), hand entry (not pushing down), leg streamlining (not deploying the drag parachute) as energy saving ways to improve balance.

    Then it's fair game to meet in the middle, but constantly working on reducing energy expense as well as improving mechanics of pull & kick to get faster.

    We can go round and round and no one will ever be satisfied with what TI is or isn't. I'll just offer...if you are ever in Pittsburgh and would like to observe or just go for a swim together I'm happy to meet you and see where our methods overlap and discuss the areas where they differ.
    2015-10-16 2:21 PM
    in reply to: AdventureBear


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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????

    Curious if anyone has a more recent edition of TI , but in the edition I had, there was a repeated emphasis on "swimming easy" - not once did the book make any mention of harder swimming. And keep in mind that version of TI did not make the case that this swimming easy was mainly for people with no form or major flaw errors - it was pretty much the core concept of all the workouts at all levels - swim 'easy' and maintain form to go fast.

     

    I don't know if that has been changed, but that was definitely one of the biggest issues with the version of TI that I was reading. Has Terry incorporated any sample workouts including harder effort intervals into his book? 

    2015-10-16 2:26 PM
    in reply to: AdventureBear

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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????

    Originally posted by AdventureBear Nearly every criticism of TI on this thread comes from a representation of TI that was long gone before I ever had my first exposure. TI does not "teach" low stroke rates and long glides as and end game...i'm not sure how many hundreds of times I've stressed that as have others on this thread with direct exposure to me either in person or in an online learning format (Don/Mark). However in any movement oriented sport (what sport isn't?) slowign down the movements to help imprint proprioception and feel for the water is an integral part of many aspects. It's a teaching method. Yes there are downsides to this as well...at slower speeds breathing becomes more challenging, legs tend to splay and it requires a bit if effort to move forward again. But most of the time these are all improvements over where the swimmer arrived with little sense of core control, balance, front and back working together, or any awareness of the water itself. TI is also a philosophy. We address energy efficient ways to improve FIRST over energy expensive ways to improve. In TJ's case he described how better pull mechanics can improve balance. That's true and there are many people, more often lean mean, in whom without forward momentum they'll never have good balance. But many people rely on these energy expensive ways to fix balance which creates fatigue and runs into fitness limitations. We spend time on balance by using awareness of the core, muscle relaxation, head position. arm extension (rebalancing weight forward of the fulcrum), hand entry (not pushing down), leg streamlining (not deploying the drag parachute) as energy saving ways to improve balance. Then it's fair game to meet in the middle, but constantly working on reducing energy expense as well as improving mechanics of pull & kick to get faster. We can go round and round and no one will ever be satisfied with what TI is or isn't. I'll just offer...if you are ever in Pittsburgh and would like to observe or just go for a swim together I'm happy to meet you and see where our methods overlap and discuss the areas where they differ.

    I know I said I was done, but I'm going to quote Suzanne here, and bold some things in hopes that some are willing to let at least a little bit sink in, because some will likely skip, or just skim, her post.

    Just read the bold, and understand that this is coming from a TI expert, not the average TI coach.  She is one of the people who shapes TI methodologies.

     

    2015-10-16 2:27 PM
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    Can I get an update on this thread.  I'm kind of confused because skimming over it and not knowing exactly what TI is it would seem it can be a first step in teaching AOS how to swim ?  Not the end all be all style of swimming some people are claiming others are saying that they hear it is.  So TI is ..........

    A) an effective first step in teaching an AOS swimmer technique to be followed by plenty of yards in the pool working on catch, kick and form to get faster.

    B) THE style you swim and it's all you work on.

    C) a complete mistake.



    2015-10-16 3:48 PM
    in reply to: Goggles Pizzano


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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????

    Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano

    Can I get an update on this thread.  I'm kind of confused because skimming over it and not knowing exactly what TI is it would seem it can be a first step in teaching AOS how to swim ?  Not the end all be all style of swimming some people are claiming others are saying that they hear it is.  So TI is ..........

    A) an effective first step in teaching an AOS swimmer technique to be followed by plenty of yards in the pool working on catch, kick and form to get faster.

    B) THE style you swim and it's all you work on.

    C) a complete mistake.

     

    I found TI a good introduction to swimming for all the reasons given by the TI coaches above. I actually used TI as my swim bible for my first 1.5 yrs of swimming.

     

    I asked my question above  because contrary to what the TI coaches said above, in my (admittedly older) TI book, it was NOT sold as a beginner-mainly way to learn to swim. It was definitely pushed something that equated to fast swimming, and specifically, 'swim easy to go fast'. Hard intervals were barely mentioned, and not incorporated whatsoever into the recommended sample workouts.

     

    I have no problems at all with the drills/method of TI, but just as an honest statement, it was the core "swim easy and go fast" philosophy that I got frustrated with . I stuck with TI approaches (of swimming easy, focusing entirely on technique) for a year and a half when I took up adult-onset swimming and ended up hugely frustrated with my lack of progress out of the BBOP of my AG in swimming despite hours and hours of careful drilling and doing exactly what the book recommended.

     

    The speed for me did not happen until I started the hard intervals with increased volume. That made a all the difference - went from BOP to almost FOP in a year, and am faster yet. All the effective youth and masters groups here emphasize hard intervals after a core baseline of decent (not perfect) technique.  None of them do mostly easy swimming as a central approach.

     

    I would have been a lot less frustrated had the book said it was meant for beginning swimmers - but from what I'm reading above, it clearly is NOT meant by the TI coaches to be a beginners-only approach, although to be fair, it sounds like the TI coaches above have no problems encouraging harder swimming, contrary to the TI edition I had.

     

     

    2015-10-16 5:41 PM
    in reply to: yazmaster

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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    Originally posted by yazmaster

    Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano

    Can I get an update on this thread.  I'm kind of confused because skimming over it and not knowing exactly what TI is it would seem it can be a first step in teaching AOS how to swim ?  Not the end all be all style of swimming some people are claiming others are saying that they hear it is.  So TI is ..........

    A) an effective first step in teaching an AOS swimmer technique to be followed by plenty of yards in the pool working on catch, kick and form to get faster.

    B) THE style you swim and it's all you work on.

    C) a complete mistake.

     

    I found TI a good introduction to swimming for all the reasons given by the TI coaches above. I actually used TI as my swim bible for my first 1.5 yrs of swimming.

     

    I asked my question above  because contrary to what the TI coaches said above, in my (admittedly older) TI book, it was NOT sold as a beginner-mainly way to learn to swim. It was definitely pushed something that equated to fast swimming, and specifically, 'swim easy to go fast'. Hard intervals were barely mentioned, and not incorporated whatsoever into the recommended sample workouts.

     

    I have no problems at all with the drills/method of TI, but just as an honest statement, it was the core "swim easy and go fast" philosophy that I got frustrated with . I stuck with TI approaches (of swimming easy, focusing entirely on technique) for a year and a half when I took up adult-onset swimming and ended up hugely frustrated with my lack of progress out of the BBOP of my AG in swimming despite hours and hours of careful drilling and doing exactly what the book recommended.

     

    The speed for me did not happen until I started the hard intervals with increased volume. That made a all the difference - went from BOP to almost FOP in a year, and am faster yet. All the effective youth and masters groups here emphasize hard intervals after a core baseline of decent (not perfect) technique.  None of them do mostly easy swimming as a central approach.

     

    I would have been a lot less frustrated had the book said it was meant for beginning swimmers - but from what I'm reading above, it clearly is NOT meant by the TI coaches to be a beginners-only approach, although to be fair, it sounds like the TI coaches above have no problems encouraging harder swimming, contrary to the TI edition I had.

     

     

    I'll say it again. I'm not a TI certified coach. I don't want to misrepresent myself as something I'm not. My knowledge of the methodologies comes from Suzanne, who is my mentor coach.
    2015-10-17 3:37 AM
    in reply to: Left Brain

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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    Originally posted by Left Brain
  • in 3 years he became a swimmer with AAA  and some AAAA times while I was still an adult onset swimmer who was thrilled when I broke 1:30/100. 


  • I was recently looking at all these standards and they are way faster than when I was a kid.

    What events did het get AAAA in ?
    2015-10-17 8:56 AM
    in reply to: marcag

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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    Eh....he said he has no AAAA times....I thought sectional cuts were right at quad A, but apparently they are triple A or just over. He said the quad A's are usually rght at jr. national cuts.
    2015-10-17 9:23 AM
    in reply to: Left Brain

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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    Originally posted by Left Brain

    Eh....he said he has no AAAA times....I thought sectional cuts were right at quad A, but apparently they are triple A or just over. He said the quad A's are usually rght at jr. national cuts.


    my guess is few triathletese make AAAA. The 1650y AAAA is 16:05. ouch!

    my 15yo niece makes the 50free. I suspect she makes a few others


    2015-10-17 9:45 AM
    in reply to: marcag

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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????

    Originally posted by marcag
    Originally posted by Left Brain Eh....he said he has no AAAA times....I thought sectional cuts were right at quad A, but apparently they are triple A or just over. He said the quad A's are usually rght at jr. national cuts.
    my guess is few triathletese make AAAA. The 1650y AAAA is 16:05. ouch! my 15yo niece makes the 50free. I suspect she makes a few others

    You're probably right.  His swim coach always says that the best swimmers are terrible athletes......he says they are not land creatures.

    2015-10-17 11:24 PM
    in reply to: zedzded

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    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    Originally posted by zedzded


    This one below is really bad. He decelerates fairly significantly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC8ZZZhabp4

    Try swimming like that in the open ocean with wind and swell and you'd probably sink.


    Thankfully, he doesn't swim like that when he's in the open ocean! The video you're sharing is an instructional video.

    You had asked and commented earlier about the TI books...if there was an updated version and how you followed the plan in the book to a T, etc...and were frustrated.

    I agree with you 100%. Terry hasn't been updating or publishing written books for years. The info in the books is dated. I won't even let my own swimmers read the physical books. The result is that myself and other coaches, if they choose to engage, are constantly posting messages like i have all along in this thread trying to painfully update people who want to know what's currently being taught. We teach it at clinics and camps, Terry & other coaches write about it on blogs & forms. There is so much information on terry's personal blog that I get lost trying to choose the best posts to share with swimmers I want to share with. There may never be an updated of the "yellow and blue" book. I think it's a terrible catastrophe, but he's far more interested in blogging, interacting with swimmers on forums and being out and about "swimming the talk". He's doing a channel crossing tomorrow (I can't locate which one at the moment) in fact.

    Some of the coaches, myself included, have created training plans that are available for sale that augment the books or videos. Mark (red corvette) has written about the one I created, that's currently only available in their TI academy. I don't get anything if you join and follow...I received a 1 time payment for the academy course.

    My point is that you're right...the books are dated. But if you look there is plenty of current and engaging material that Terry is still actively writing after 44 years of coaching.

    Here's his most recent post, not posting b/c it's necessarily anything exceptionaly better than his other posts, but simply to demonstarte that if you want to know TI...Terry is very accessible. Just go leave some comments on his blog about whatever posts tweaks your interest.

    http://www.swimwellblog.com/archives/2735/

    And I think I"ll finally leave it at that. thanks for the mature & interesting discussion from everyone!

    2015-10-20 9:16 PM
    in reply to: AdventureBear


    471
    1001001001002525
    Subject: RE: Don't do these in triathlon swimming?????????
    Cool thanks for that Adventurebear. Makes sense
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