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2015-10-12 9:11 AM

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Subject: Thinking About an Ultra

I'm thinking about running an ultra, probably a 50 miler.  How crazy is it to try and run around 8:30?  Also, any suggestions for fun races?

 



2015-10-12 9:51 AM
in reply to: dmiller5


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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra
I've done two 50 milers. The JFK 50 in MD, and the Burning River 50. I'd recommend either race. I have RR posted for each. If you are running your first, I wouldn't focus so much on a finish time. I would just focus on finishing, you will run a PR either way!

And as far as ultras go, your time will totally depend on the course. 8:30 is a pretty good time either way, but on some courses, like the Zane Grey 50, it would be an elite and possibly winning time. The Zane Grey 50 would probably be my first choice for a 50, but it is on a lottery now, and a poor choice for a first 50. Also the Superior 50 mile race in Minnesota looks pretty awesome.

For a first race though, I don't think you could go wrong with the JFK 50. It is extremely well run, and an 8:30 is very doable on that course. The toughest sections are done in the first 16 miles. People say the scenery gets dull in the middle along a 26.3 mile stretch of towpath, but I didn't mind it. The race has alot of history and the support is fantastic.

2015-10-12 10:00 AM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra

Originally posted by ImSore I've done two 50 milers. The JFK 50 in MD, and the Burning River 50. I'd recommend either race. I have RR posted for each. If you are running your first, I wouldn't focus so much on a finish time. I would just focus on finishing, you will run a PR either way! And as far as ultras go, your time will totally depend on the course. 8:30 is a pretty good time either way, but on some courses, like the Zane Grey 50, it would be an elite and possibly winning time. The Zane Grey 50 would probably be my first choice for a 50, but it is on a lottery now, and a poor choice for a first 50. Also the Superior 50 mile race in Minnesota looks pretty awesome. For a first race though, I don't think you could go wrong with the JFK 50. It is extremely well run, and an 8:30 is very doable on that course. The toughest sections are done in the first 16 miles. People say the scenery gets dull in the middle along a 26.3 mile stretch of towpath, but I didn't mind it. The race has alot of history and the support is fantastic.

I was considering JFK until I realized its in 1.5 months.  I'm not really concerned thattt much with time, I'm doing it for fun as a break from competing, but it helps I guess to have an idea haha.  What kind of long run stuff do you do.  From research (aka watching my ex train) it seemed like back to back long run days were a good way to simulate running on tired legs.  She used to do a 4 hour day followed by a 2-3 hour day as a big training weekend.

2015-10-12 10:55 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra
There is the HAT run 50K which is in March I believe...

Its up in Harford County so its a local race for you but I believe it is all trails so not sure if that would be what you are looking for or not.
2015-10-12 10:59 AM
in reply to: dmiller5


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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra
I generally don't do back to backs. I think overall training load is probably more important than simulating "running on tired legs." Frankly, I already know what that feels like . In the middle of a heavier training load, I am already running on tired legs daily anyhow. I also think that back to backs stress your body in a way that may make you more prone to injury. Not that it doesn't work for everyone, I just feel that I don't need it. I also don't have a schedule that accommodates back to backs.

During my peak weeks for a 50 miler I was probably around 70mpw. My long runs were in the 20 to 25 mile range. I run 7 days a week, with one day an easy 2 mile recovery. I do try to simulate the race as much as possible with regards to terrain and elevation change during most of my training.

As far as choosing a race now, try this link : http://www.runningintheusa.com/Race/50Mile.aspx

I'd look for something with similar elevation change as to what you are used to, or what you would feel comfortable running a marathon on. If it is on trails, make sure you get out and train on some trails, preferably ones with similar terrain. Usually races with larger numbers of participants and a longer history are good bets (not that there aren't some awesome smaller races). Its just that the larger more popular races have likely proven themselves over the years, and will likely have good support. I would narrow it down based on that, timeframe, and geography. Good luck!
2015-10-12 11:08 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra

Do the Monument Valley 50 miler with me on March 19th. It runs through the desert in between all the rock formations on Navajo land. It's my first ultra too.



2015-10-12 12:10 PM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra

Originally posted by trijamie

Do the Monument Valley 50 miler with me on March 19th. It runs through the desert in between all the rock formations on Navajo land. It's my first ultra too.

Dave, you should take Jamie up on his offer......that way you won't die alone. 

2015-10-12 12:59 PM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra

Originally posted by trijamie

Do the Monument Valley 50 miler with me on March 19th. It runs through the desert in between all the rock formations on Navajo land. It's my first ultra too.

After seeing pictures of your last race I had to go take a peek at Monument Valley.  Wow!!  That looks incredible.  Elevation gain not as bad as I thought it would be nor the temps.  Hmmm.... 

2015-10-12 1:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra

Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by trijamie

Do the Monument Valley 50 miler with me on March 19th. It runs through the desert in between all the rock formations on Navajo land. It's my first ultra too.

After seeing pictures of your last race I had to go take a peek at Monument Valley.  Wow!!  That looks incredible.  Elevation gain not as bad as I thought it would be nor the temps.  Hmmm.... 

 

Yea but take a look at the google earth fly through. Around mile 40ish there's a massive massive climb up to the top of one of the mesas. I can't remember how much vertical climb, but I'm thinkin about breaking out the trekking poles, and yes maybe dmiller can drag my carcass back to the finish line.

You lookin for race too, pops? sign up!



Edited by trijamie 2015-10-12 1:15 PM
2015-10-12 1:14 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra
If you're in good marathon shape, you can typically finish a 50-miler without too much trouble.....as long as you pace appropriately.


8:30 would typically be a top 10% finish on a flat course.
2015-10-12 1:25 PM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra

Originally posted by trijamie

Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by trijamie

Do the Monument Valley 50 miler with me on March 19th. It runs through the desert in between all the rock formations on Navajo land. It's my first ultra too.

After seeing pictures of your last race I had to go take a peek at Monument Valley.  Wow!!  That looks incredible.  Elevation gain not as bad as I thought it would be nor the temps.  Hmmm.... 

 

Yea but take a look at the google earth fly through. Around mile 40ish there's a massive massive climb up to the top of one of the mesas. I can't remember how much vertical climb, but I'm thinkin about breaking out the trekking poles, and yes maybe dmiller can drag my carcass back to the finish line.

You lookin for race too, pops? sign up!

Noticed that about the area. The overall totals can't really get ridiculous because the mesas are too far apart. Many of them might need climbing rope too! Then again, because of what they are, most all the climbing is going to be up one or two hills!

When someone asks why train to go long, this is the type of thing to point to.



2015-10-12 2:09 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by trijamie

Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by trijamie

Do the Monument Valley 50 miler with me on March 19th. It runs through the desert in between all the rock formations on Navajo land. It's my first ultra too.

After seeing pictures of your last race I had to go take a peek at Monument Valley.  Wow!!  That looks incredible.  Elevation gain not as bad as I thought it would be nor the temps.  Hmmm.... 

Yea but take a look at the google earth fly through. Around mile 40ish there's a massive massive climb up to the top of one of the mesas. I can't remember how much vertical climb, but I'm thinkin about breaking out the trekking poles, and yes maybe dmiller can drag my carcass back to the finish line.

You lookin for race too, pops? sign up!

Noticed that about the area. The overall totals can't really get ridiculous because the mesas are too far apart. Many of them might need climbing rope too! Then again, because of what they are, most all the climbing is going to be up one or two hills!

When someone asks why train to go long, this is the type of thing to point to.

 I think I read the climb is about 1000 ft. in a mile.  I've done a few races this year with similar sections.  I think the steep downhill on the other side would be just as painful.  Sorry to hijack a bit.

Ultras are all about pacing.  I've done a few 50+ milers with nothing beyond normal HIM training and learned that so much is mental and proper hydration/nutrition.

2015-10-12 2:24 PM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra

Originally posted by ImSore I run 7 days a week, with one day an easy 2 mile recovery.

I've been meaning to post about this anyway, so maybe this is a close enough thread to ask. A lot of 50 miler training plans that I've seen feature 2 days per week off completely. I guess the idea is that the focus is really on the long run, and the extra day off gives your body more time to recover from such long runs, but is that an old school approach? I've also read other approaches that take the emphasis away from the long run a bit and spread the miles out more evenly throughout the week, with only a single day off. Is it crazy to be taking 2 days per week off?

2015-10-13 9:49 AM
in reply to: trijamie


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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra
I only have one 50mi under my belt, but my 2 cents is that the long run matters more than the shorter stuff during the week, so 2 days off/wk to me is not a big deal. Nail the long runs, with nutrition, and on terrain as close to what your race will be if possible (include hills!). During the weekdays I'd do some shorter speed stuff and a medium distance run.

On the question about an 8:30 pace, I think it depends on the course. If it was a road race and that pace is within your normal pace then I think its do-able. If its trail...different world. I was 2-3min/mi slower on trail race than a road race pace (mostly due to hills and need to stop a couple times for nutrition/bathroom/gear/etc). Totally great experience though, go for it!
2015-10-13 9:03 PM
in reply to: trijamie


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Subject: RE: Thinking About an Ultra
Originally posted by trijamie

Originally posted by ImSore I run 7 days a week, with one day an easy 2 mile recovery.

I've been meaning to post about this anyway, so maybe this is a close enough thread to ask. A lot of 50 miler training plans that I've seen feature 2 days per week off completely. I guess the idea is that the focus is really on the long run, and the extra day off gives your body more time to recover from such long runs, but is that an old school approach? I've also read other approaches that take the emphasis away from the long run a bit and spread the miles out more evenly throughout the week, with only a single day off. Is it crazy to be taking 2 days per week off?




I think the ideal number of days to run per week is totally dependent on the runner. Level of experience, age, and innate injury resistance can play a big part of what works for you. So I don't think taking 2 days off per week is crazy, if you need it. If you can handle more, and you recover well, then go for it. If you can get 6 quality workouts in per week (including easy and hard days), then you will benefit from those workouts. On the other hand, if you are running 6 or 7 days a week, and slogging or limping through half of those days, you probably aren't helping yourself much.
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