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2015-11-18 12:26 PM

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Subject: Syrian refuges
We have managed to turn this into a political football. Ryan and the Republican governors standing up saying 'hell no'. The democrats all keeping silent. Not saying 'hell yes, bring em to us' is the cowards way out, but politically shrewd. And the president has taken this opportunity to NOT unite the country, but to deepen the divide.

So, what is the general consensus with the PCOJ? Ignore the political jockeying I mentioned in the previous paragraph. Please feel free to start another thread if anyone feels the need, but here i just want to hear your opinion.

Would you welcome a refuge family into your neighborhood? What do your friends and co-workers think? Please mention what state you live in.

Ignoring the immediate threat to their lives from ISIS; are we really helping these people by moving them so far from their homeland?


2015-11-18 2:45 PM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges

yes, let them in. i live in maryland.

 

"ignoring the immediate threat to them from isis"  ummm, no, i won't be ignoring that, that is the whole point.  America stands for freedom, unless its inconvenient to us?  We should be accepting refugees, and embracing them as family.  Let them integrate into our society.  France and Belgium are having issues because of the way immigrants/refugees were treated.  All those terrorists are first generation citizens who never felt accepted.

2015-11-18 3:44 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges
No. Do not let them in. I live in rural Louisiana, friends and neighbors mostly feel the same way. That feeling also extends to illegals coming in from the south.

2015-11-18 3:53 PM
in reply to: NXS

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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges

I say let them in.

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.  The most famous quote associated with the Statue of Liberty.

You cannot give up your principles, especially during times like these.  Times like these are why we have them. 

I would welcome a refugee. 

 

XX

2015-11-18 4:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges
Originally posted by mdg2003

We have managed to turn this into a political football. Ryan and the Republican governors standing up saying 'hell no'. The democrats all keeping silent. Not saying 'hell yes, bring em to us' is the cowards way out, but politically shrewd. And the president has taken this opportunity to NOT unite the country, but to deepen the divide.

So, what is the general consensus with the PCOJ? Ignore the political jockeying I mentioned in the previous paragraph. Please feel free to start another thread if anyone feels the need, but here i just want to hear your opinion.

Would you welcome a refuge family into your neighborhood? What do your friends and co-workers think? Please mention what state you live in.

Ignoring the immediate threat to their lives from ISIS; are we really helping these people by moving them so far from their homeland?


Hi I'm JMK. I live in Brooklyn, New York. I would be willing to bet that there are more people of Middle-Eastern descent within a five-mile radius of where I live than there are in some large Middle-Eastern cities. So, a few more would hardly even skew the demographics of the neighborhood.

A couple of things:

They can't stay where they are-- they're fleeing the same terrorists that we're fighting and it would take far, far more resources to create a "safe zone" lin Syria like some people are suggesting. The costs and manpower involved in identifying a location, building it, relocating people, and defending it would be impossible to manage, even with a coalition.

The fact is, there are THOUSANDS of refugees and immigrants in the US already. They arrive every day from all over the world. 10,000 is a drop in the bucket relatively speaking. In addition to refugees, there are foreign tourists, students, and people who come into this country every day on all kinds of short-term and long-term visas. So, if the idea is that keeping out these refugees will insulate us from any terrorist infiltration, that's just an absurd pipe dream. If anything, I'd make the argument that there are many easier ways of getting into the US than by trying to sneak in among hundreds of mostly women and kids.

I recognize the security risks, and it doesn't make sense to ignore them altogether. Having said that, people say all the time that "As soon as we give up our way of life out of fear, the terrorists have won." Make no mistake-- this country has ALWAYS been a place where people freeing opression or poverty or whatever horrible condition could come and find a better life. It is not an exaggeration to say that this is a founding principle of this country. It says it right at the base of the friggin' Statue of Liberty. This isn't PART of our way of life, it IS our way of life.

The few times in our history where we have ignored this principle-- for example, placing Japanese-Americans in internment camps during WWII because we thought there might be spies among them, or turning away boatloads of Jews fleeing Nazi persecution for the same reason, are periods that we, as Americans should look back upon with shame. I don't want to be part of the generation that sent a bunch of helpless people back into the hands of ISIS because I was worried about my own skin. Maybe it's because of where I live, but I've gotten pretty used to the idea that a terrorist attack could happen anywhere, at any time. In my view, a few thousand more immigrants don't change the odds very much.

And honestly, I can't BELIEVE there are people who want to be President who are willing to say out loud that they would be ok with taking some refugees, but only the Christian ones. That is appalling.There's no other word for it.

So, If we decide that the relatively small risk of a terrorist attack is worth our turning our back, as a nation, on thousands of terrified (mostly) women and kids, then we are no longer the country that we have always claimed to be. If that's ok with everyone, then I suppose it is what it is, but if we do that, we ought to change the last line of the National Anthem to something else, because we can no longer claim to be the land of the free and the home of the brave.


Edited by jmk-brooklyn 2015-11-18 4:19 PM
2015-11-18 4:23 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges

I am here because my great-grandparents, Yugoslavian refugees of Croation heritage, were welcome here during the communist revolution in their country.  I cannot say no to Syrian refugees.  I understand that these times are not those times.  I understand that would-be terrorists could come to our country with refugees.  But my heart would never let me say no to refugees trying to escape their war-torn contry, or not welcome them.

Yes, they can be my neighbors.



2015-11-18 6:42 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges
Originally posted by dmiller5

yes, let them in. i live in maryland.

 

"ignoring the immediate threat to them from isis"  ummm, no, i won't be ignoring that, that is the whole point.  America stands for freedom, unless its inconvenient to us?  We should be accepting refugees, and embracing them as family.  Let them integrate into our society.  France and Belgium are having issues because of the way immigrants/refugees were treated.  All those terrorists are first generation citizens who never felt accepted.




You missed my intention because I'm a ***ty writer. What I meant was are we really helping them or are we just jamming more western culture upon them by moving them all the way across the globe. Do they really want to come here or are we just grabbing a bunch of them and assuming they would want to live here. Moving from a Islamic country to a country that is largely Judeo-Christian will be a culture shock. Are they even asking these folks where they want to immigrate to?

As far as my position on the issue... I'm still on the fence. We got more immigrants than we know what to do with around here in San Antonio. Another load wouldn't tip the whole place out of kilter and there are tons of jobs.
2015-11-18 6:47 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by mdg2003





And honestly, I can't BELIEVE there are people who want to be President who are willing to say out loud that they would be ok with taking some refugees, but only the Christian ones. That is appalling.There's no other word for it.


Missed hearing that, but guessed it had to be Cruz. Google confirmed my suspicions!
2015-11-18 6:51 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Syrian refugees
A couple of months ago I heard a Vietnamese Canadian woman on the radio. As a young girl she had come to Canada with her family as a refugee - she was one of the "boat people". She described how much it had meant to her to be able to escape war and start a new life in Canada. Now she is paying it forward by working with other Vietnamese Canadians to sponsor Syrian refugees. I found the interview moving and thought to myself that I'd like to get involved.

Now I'm the chair of a church committee that is working on sponsoring a family of 8 Syrian refugees. I have never been involved in anything like this before. I have less free time and I'm feeling a lot more stressed than I did a few months ago but I haven't been involved in anything that feels this important in a long time.

My friends and family are totally behind this, but I think there are a lot of people in my area that are opposed.
Don
2015-11-18 6:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges

Originally posted by mdg2003
Originally posted by dmiller5

yes, let them in. i live in maryland.

 

"ignoring the immediate threat to them from isis"  ummm, no, i won't be ignoring that, that is the whole point.  America stands for freedom, unless its inconvenient to us?  We should be accepting refugees, and embracing them as family.  Let them integrate into our society.  France and Belgium are having issues because of the way immigrants/refugees were treated.  All those terrorists are first generation citizens who never felt accepted.

You missed my intention because I'm a ***ty writer. What I meant was are we really helping them or are we just jamming more western culture upon them by moving them all the way across the globe. Do they really want to come here or are we just grabbing a bunch of them and assuming they would want to live here. Moving from a Islamic country to a country that is largely Judeo-Christian will be a culture shock. Are they even asking these folks where they want to immigrate to? As far as my position on the issue... I'm still on the fence. We got more immigrants than we know what to do with around here in San Antonio. Another load wouldn't tip the whole place out of kilter and there are tons of jobs.

My son's best friends, twin brothers from Bosnian heritage, one a 4:14 HS miler now running for Washington University, the other a D2 Basketball player, were born here after their parents immigrated when their country was torn apart.  They are Muslim.  I know their father well since our sons ran together.....he works for a municipal street department.  Their mother is an aide at a retirement home.  Without a doubt some of the greatest, most humble people I know.  The father tells me that he misses his country, his home.  But he also says that his sons' home is here, so he loves it for them. He raised outstanding young men here!

We take in refugees and in a few generations, or sometimes in only one generation, we have citizens who are proud of their country and consider it home.......surely, the only home they've ever known.

Without question, it is right to provide a safe haven for any and all who want to escape war.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-11-18 6:59 PM
2015-11-18 7:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges

Originally posted by Justin86

I say let them in.

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.  The most famous quote associated with the Statue of Liberty.

You cannot give up your principles, especially during times like these.  Times like these are why we have them. 

I would welcome a refugee. 

 

XX

Perfect Response. 

If WE ignore these bedrock principles-they win!  And that's NOT acceptable. 

(And, BTW, Ted Cruz just proved how 'small' he really is



Edited by jeffnboise 2015-11-18 7:32 PM


2015-11-18 8:06 PM
in reply to: donw

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Subject: RE: Syrian refugees

Originally posted by donw  Now I'm the chair of a church committee that is working on sponsoring a family of 8 Syrian refugees.

That's fantastic dude. I'd be really interested in hearing a followup on how that goes as it progresses. And yes, let them in. Those people are living in an absolute hell that none of us can imagine. I can barely get through an entire episode of Frontline on PBS because it's so damn horrific, and they're living in it every day. It's shameful to close our doors under these circumstances.

2015-11-18 8:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Syrian refugees

A little bit off the topic.....but as long as we are on the subject of immigration....as far as I'm concerned, where our country COMPLETELY falls off the page is not making it easy to become a U.S. citizen.  Why does it take so long and why are there so many hoops to jump through?  Make it easy for people to join us, become productive, and be proud of belonging to a great nation.  How is this so hard to understand? For crissakes.......it's how we all got here!!



Edited by Left Brain 2015-11-18 8:19 PM
2015-11-18 9:17 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Syrian refugees

Originally posted by Left Brain

A little bit off the topic.....but as long as we are on the subject of immigration....as far as I'm concerned, where our country COMPLETELY falls off the page is not making it easy to become a U.S. citizen.  Why does it take so long and why are there so many hoops to jump through?  Make it easy for people to join us, become productive, and be proud of belonging to a great nation.  How is this so hard to understand? For crissakes.......it's how we all got here!!

 

LB your exactly right.  Working at a University I have worked with a lot of individuals who were foreign and I have seen time and time again what it takes.  It's crazy  These are people who will contribute greatly to our society and even they still have such a hard time. 

2015-11-19 8:23 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Syrian refugees

Originally posted by Left Brain

A little bit off the topic.....but as long as we are on the subject of immigration....as far as I'm concerned, where our country COMPLETELY falls off the page is not making it easy to become a U.S. citizen.  Why does it take so long and why are there so many hoops to jump through?  Make it easy for people to join us, become productive, and be proud of belonging to a great nation.  How is this so hard to understand? For crissakes.......it's how we all got here!!

I agree.  It's NIMBYism on a national scale.  I've got mine, so now screw you.  It's ridiculous.

I have no objections to Syrian refugees coming to my neighborhood with the caveat that today's world necessitates a good screening process to try to weed out terrorists using the process to infiltrate the country.

 

2015-11-19 8:36 AM
in reply to: Justin86

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Subject: RE: Syrian refugees
I would like to see the Muslim Arab states and Iran take in the refugees first.

I saw a comment earlier that Syrian Muslims can integrate with Western Civilization. That comment strikes me as extremely Western-centric. The thought that Western Judeo-Christian values such as democracy, free speech, natural rights is a universal value system that can be integrated within the muslim community is foolishness. My city has an enormous Muslim population that has been here for about 15 years. In my line of work, I interact with Muslim families everyday. I can tell you, they have zero interest in assimilating American values.

It would be like an atheist accepting God as his savior or a Western refugee in Iran accepting Sharia Law. It is just not possible to integrate a belief and value system that you are diametrically opposed to down to your very soul.

The comparison that the Syrians are akin to the Jews is false analogy. First Jews are an ethnicity and Syrians are a nationality. Second, there were no Nazi sympathetic Jewish refugees, there are certainly ISIS sympathetic Syrians. And finally, Jews weren't running around Europe trying to blow up soccer stadiums, shooting up concert halls and restaurants.



2015-11-19 9:38 AM
in reply to: Jackemy1

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Subject: RE: Syrian refugees

Originally posted by Jackemy1 I would like to see the Muslim Arab states and Iran take in the refugees first. I saw a comment earlier that Syrian Muslims can integrate with Western Civilization. That comment strikes me as extremely Western-centric. The thought that Western Judeo-Christian values such as democracy, free speech, natural rights is a universal value system that can be integrated within the muslim community is foolishness. My city has an enormous Muslim population that has been here for about 15 years. In my line of work, I interact with Muslim families everyday. I can tell you, they have zero interest in assimilating American values. It would be like an atheist accepting God as his savior or a Western refugee in Iran accepting Sharia Law. It is just not possible to integrate a belief and value system that you are diametrically opposed to down to your very soul. The comparison that the Syrians are akin to the Jews is false analogy. First Jews are an ethnicity and Syrians are a nationality. Second, there were no Nazi sympathetic Jewish refugees, there are certainly ISIS sympathetic Syrians. And finally, Jews weren't running around Europe trying to blow up soccer stadiums, shooting up concert halls and restaurants.

I find that comment to be utter bullchit.  My city is home to tens of thousands of Bosnians.....most are Muslim.  Now into the second and thrid generation they have moved to the suburbs and middle class neighborhoods......including mine.  They are our friends, our neighbors, our co-workers, and their children and our children have grown up together.  I have seen no issues of assimilation, and although the first generation had the same language and cultural issues that ALL immigrants have, their children, due to the fine upbringing they were provided by those first generation immigrants, are excellent citizens with wholly American values and dreams.

 

2015-11-19 9:43 AM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by mdg2003

We have managed to turn this into a political football. Ryan and the Republican governors standing up saying 'hell no'. The democrats all keeping silent. Not saying 'hell yes, bring em to us' is the cowards way out, but politically shrewd. And the president has taken this opportunity to NOT unite the country, but to deepen the divide.

So, what is the general consensus with the PCOJ? Ignore the political jockeying I mentioned in the previous paragraph. Please feel free to start another thread if anyone feels the need, but here i just want to hear your opinion.

Would you welcome a refuge family into your neighborhood? What do your friends and co-workers think? Please mention what state you live in.

Ignoring the immediate threat to their lives from ISIS; are we really helping these people by moving them so far from their homeland?


Hi I'm JMK. I live in Brooklyn, New York. I would be willing to bet that there are more people of Middle-Eastern descent within a five-mile radius of where I live than there are in some large Middle-Eastern cities. So, a few more would hardly even skew the demographics of the neighborhood.

A couple of things:

They can't stay where they are-- they're fleeing the same terrorists that we're fighting and it would take far, far more resources to create a "safe zone" lin Syria like some people are suggesting. The costs and manpower involved in identifying a location, building it, relocating people, and defending it would be impossible to manage, even with a coalition.

The fact is, there are THOUSANDS of refugees and immigrants in the US already. They arrive every day from all over the world. 10,000 is a drop in the bucket relatively speaking. In addition to refugees, there are foreign tourists, students, and people who come into this country every day on all kinds of short-term and long-term visas. So, if the idea is that keeping out these refugees will insulate us from any terrorist infiltration, that's just an absurd pipe dream. If anything, I'd make the argument that there are many easier ways of getting into the US than by trying to sneak in among hundreds of mostly women and kids.

I recognize the security risks, and it doesn't make sense to ignore them altogether. Having said that, people say all the time that "As soon as we give up our way of life out of fear, the terrorists have won." Make no mistake-- this country has ALWAYS been a place where people freeing opression or poverty or whatever horrible condition could come and find a better life. It is not an exaggeration to say that this is a founding principle of this country. It says it right at the base of the friggin' Statue of Liberty. This isn't PART of our way of life, it IS our way of life.

The few times in our history where we have ignored this principle-- for example, placing Japanese-Americans in internment camps during WWII because we thought there might be spies among them, or turning away boatloads of Jews fleeing Nazi persecution for the same reason, are periods that we, as Americans should look back upon with shame. I don't want to be part of the generation that sent a bunch of helpless people back into the hands of ISIS because I was worried about my own skin. Maybe it's because of where I live, but I've gotten pretty used to the idea that a terrorist attack could happen anywhere, at any time. In my view, a few thousand more immigrants don't change the odds very much.

And honestly, I can't BELIEVE there are people who want to be President who are willing to say out loud that they would be ok with taking some refugees, but only the Christian ones. That is appalling.There's no other word for it.

So, If we decide that the relatively small risk of a terrorist attack is worth our turning our back, as a nation, on thousands of terrified (mostly) women and kids, then we are no longer the country that we have always claimed to be. If that's ok with everyone, then I suppose it is what it is, but if we do that, we ought to change the last line of the National Anthem to something else, because we can no longer claim to be the land of the free and the home of the brave.



My sentiments exactly. Minnesota (and the Lutheran church as a major sponsor force) has a long history of welcoming immigrants and refugees in particular. We have one of the largest populations of Hmong, Somali and Vietnamese immigrants in the US. I'd like to see that continue. I like what our Governor Mark Dayton said on Tuesday:

"I want to protect the people of Minnesota every bit as much as those governors want to protect the people of their states," the governor said Tuesday morning. "But to stand up there with swagger and say, 'I'm going to prevent the wrong people from entering my state' to me is just ludicrous."
.
2015-11-19 10:34 AM
in reply to: ejshowers

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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges
I give him credit for using the word "swagger" as well.
2015-11-19 10:43 AM
in reply to: Jackemy1

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Subject: RE: Syrian refugees
Originally posted by Jackemy1

I would like to see the Muslim Arab states and Iran take in the refugees first.

I saw a comment earlier that Syrian Muslims can integrate with Western Civilization. That comment strikes me as extremely Western-centric. The thought that Western Judeo-Christian values such as democracy, free speech, natural rights is a universal value system that can be integrated within the muslim community is foolishness. My city has an enormous Muslim population that has been here for about 15 years. In my line of work, I interact with Muslim families everyday. I can tell you, they have zero interest in assimilating American values.

It would be like an atheist accepting God as his savior or a Western refugee in Iran accepting Sharia Law. It is just not possible to integrate a belief and value system that you are diametrically opposed to down to your very soul.

The comparison that the Syrians are akin to the Jews is false analogy. First Jews are an ethnicity and Syrians are a nationality. Second, there were no Nazi sympathetic Jewish refugees, there are certainly ISIS sympathetic Syrians. And finally, Jews weren't running around Europe trying to blow up soccer stadiums, shooting up concert halls and restaurants.


What are the American values that you're referring to that they "have zero interest assimilating"? We have thousands of Muslims and Arab immigrants in nyc. We know some who sit on the PTA, coach soccer, take their kids trick or treating, etc. I honestly can't imagine what "values" you could be referring to. Please enlighten me. Do you expect them to convert to Christianity? Vote republican?
2015-11-19 11:46 AM
in reply to: Jackemy1

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Subject: RE: Syrian refugees
Originally posted by Jackemy1
The comparison that the Syrians are akin to the Jews is false analogy. First Jews are an ethnicity and Syrians are a nationality. Second, there were no Nazi sympathetic Jewish refugees, there are certainly ISIS sympathetic Syrians. And finally, Jews weren't running around Europe trying to blow up soccer stadiums, shooting up concert halls and restaurants.


The bolded part doesn't make sense to me. There may very well be ISIS-sympathetic Syrians, but they aren't the ones, presumably, abandoning their homes and worldly posessions and fleeing for their lives from ISIS.

I admit the analogy isn't perfect, but it's not a false one. The resistance to Jewish refugees was based on two factors: one, outright anti-Semitism. There were many people in the US who simply didn't like Jews and didn't like the idea of a bunch of them entering the US. Second was the (not unreasonable) fear that Nazi spies could hide among the mostly German Jewish refugees and enter the country unnoticed.

Both of those factors are at work here. There is a legitmate concern that terrorists or radicals might enter the US among the refugees, and while this is a concern, it's not, in my opinion, a reason to deny refuge to thousands of genuinely needy people.

Second, there is no question whatsoever, that xenophobia plays a HUGE part in the resistance to these refugees. The ignorance in some of the comments that I've seen from people who want to keep the refugees out is staggering.



2015-11-19 2:20 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: Syrian refugees
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by Jackemy1
The comparison that the Syrians are akin to the Jews is false analogy. First Jews are an ethnicity and Syrians are a nationality. Second, there were no Nazi sympathetic Jewish refugees, there are certainly ISIS sympathetic Syrians. And finally, Jews weren't running around Europe trying to blow up soccer stadiums, shooting up concert halls and restaurants.


The bolded part doesn't make sense to me. There may very well be ISIS-sympathetic Syrians, but they aren't the ones, presumably, abandoning their homes and worldly posessions and fleeing for their lives from ISIS.

I admit the analogy isn't perfect, but it's not a false one. The resistance to Jewish refugees was based on two factors: one, outright anti-Semitism. There were many people in the US who simply didn't like Jews and didn't like the idea of a bunch of them entering the US. Second was the (not unreasonable) fear that Nazi spies could hide among the mostly German Jewish refugees and enter the country unnoticed.

Both of those factors are at work here. There is a legitmate concern that terrorists or radicals might enter the US among the refugees, and while this is a concern, it's not, in my opinion, a reason to deny refuge to thousands of genuinely needy people.

Second, there is no question whatsoever, that xenophobia plays a HUGE part in the resistance to these refugees. The ignorance in some of the comments that I've seen from people who want to keep the refugees out is staggering.




JMK, I read what people say on both sides with an open mind. However when you start calling names like xenophobic and then just say we are just ignorant because we may not agree, kills any dialog that could have taken place. What I find truly amazing is that people, in light of 9/11, Boston, etc. find it acceptable to take in "refugees" that according to people in this administration we cannot adequately screen. Do I care about the people in the mid east hell hole? Of course I do, but I also care about US citizens who many from that region what to kill.






2015-11-19 2:24 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by mdg2003

We have managed to turn this into a political football. Ryan and the Republican governors standing up saying 'hell no'. The democrats all keeping silent. Not saying 'hell yes, bring em to us' is the cowards way out, but politically shrewd. And the president has taken this opportunity to NOT unite the country, but to deepen the divide.

So, what is the general consensus with the PCOJ? Ignore the political jockeying I mentioned in the previous paragraph. Please feel free to start another thread if anyone feels the need, but here i just want to hear your opinion.

Would you welcome a refuge family into your neighborhood? What do your friends and co-workers think? Please mention what state you live in.

Ignoring the immediate threat to their lives from ISIS; are we really helping these people by moving them so far from their homeland?


Hi I'm JMK. I live in Brooklyn, New York. I would be willing to bet that there are more people of Middle-Eastern descent within a five-mile radius of where I live than there are in some large Middle-Eastern cities. So, a few more would hardly even skew the demographics of the neighborhood.

A couple of things:

They can't stay where they are-- they're fleeing the same terrorists that we're fighting and it would take far, far more resources to create a "safe zone" lin Syria like some people are suggesting. The costs and manpower involved in identifying a location, building it, relocating people, and defending it would be impossible to manage, even with a coalition.

The fact is, there are THOUSANDS of refugees and immigrants in the US already. They arrive every day from all over the world. 10,000 is a drop in the bucket relatively speaking. In addition to refugees, there are foreign tourists, students, and people who come into this country every day on all kinds of short-term and long-term visas. So, if the idea is that keeping out these refugees will insulate us from any terrorist infiltration, that's just an absurd pipe dream. If anything, I'd make the argument that there are many easier ways of getting into the US than by trying to sneak in among hundreds of mostly women and kids.

I recognize the security risks, and it doesn't make sense to ignore them altogether. Having said that, people say all the time that "As soon as we give up our way of life out of fear, the terrorists have won." Make no mistake-- this country has ALWAYS been a place where people freeing opression or poverty or whatever horrible condition could come and find a better life. It is not an exaggeration to say that this is a founding principle of this country. It says it right at the base of the friggin' Statue of Liberty. This isn't PART of our way of life, it IS our way of life.

The few times in our history where we have ignored this principle-- for example, placing Japanese-Americans in internment camps during WWII because we thought there might be spies among them, or turning away boatloads of Jews fleeing Nazi persecution for the same reason, are periods that we, as Americans should look back upon with shame. I don't want to be part of the generation that sent a bunch of helpless people back into the hands of ISIS because I was worried about my own skin. Maybe it's because of where I live, but I've gotten pretty used to the idea that a terrorist attack could happen anywhere, at any time. In my view, a few thousand more immigrants don't change the odds very much.

And honestly, I can't BELIEVE there are people who want to be President who are willing to say out loud that they would be ok with taking some refugees, but only the Christian ones. That is appalling.There's no other word for it.

So, If we decide that the relatively small risk of a terrorist attack is worth our turning our back, as a nation, on thousands of terrified (mostly) women and kids, then we are no longer the country that we have always claimed to be. If that's ok with everyone, then I suppose it is what it is, but if we do that, we ought to change the last line of the National Anthem to something else, because we can no longer claim to be the land of the free and the home of the brave.



Apparently they are not mostly women and children.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/09/30/europes-asylum-seek...


2015-11-19 2:35 PM
in reply to: NXS

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Subject: RE: Syrian refuges

Originally posted by NXS
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn
Originally posted by mdg2003 We have managed to turn this into a political football. Ryan and the Republican governors standing up saying 'hell no'. The democrats all keeping silent. Not saying 'hell yes, bring em to us' is the cowards way out, but politically shrewd. And the president has taken this opportunity to NOT unite the country, but to deepen the divide. So, what is the general consensus with the PCOJ? Ignore the political jockeying I mentioned in the previous paragraph. Please feel free to start another thread if anyone feels the need, but here i just want to hear your opinion. Would you welcome a refuge family into your neighborhood? What do your friends and co-workers think? Please mention what state you live in. Ignoring the immediate threat to their lives from ISIS; are we really helping these people by moving them so far from their homeland?
Hi I'm JMK. I live in Brooklyn, New York. I would be willing to bet that there are more people of Middle-Eastern descent within a five-mile radius of where I live than there are in some large Middle-Eastern cities. So, a few more would hardly even skew the demographics of the neighborhood. A couple of things: They can't stay where they are-- they're fleeing the same terrorists that we're fighting and it would take far, far more resources to create a "safe zone" lin Syria like some people are suggesting. The costs and manpower involved in identifying a location, building it, relocating people, and defending it would be impossible to manage, even with a coalition. The fact is, there are THOUSANDS of refugees and immigrants in the US already. They arrive every day from all over the world. 10,000 is a drop in the bucket relatively speaking. In addition to refugees, there are foreign tourists, students, and people who come into this country every day on all kinds of short-term and long-term visas. So, if the idea is that keeping out these refugees will insulate us from any terrorist infiltration, that's just an absurd pipe dream. If anything, I'd make the argument that there are many easier ways of getting into the US than by trying to sneak in among hundreds of mostly women and kids. I recognize the security risks, and it doesn't make sense to ignore them altogether. Having said that, people say all the time that "As soon as we give up our way of life out of fear, the terrorists have won." Make no mistake-- this country has ALWAYS been a place where people freeing opression or poverty or whatever horrible condition could come and find a better life. It is not an exaggeration to say that this is a founding principle of this country. It says it right at the base of the friggin' Statue of Liberty. This isn't PART of our way of life, it IS our way of life. The few times in our history where we have ignored this principle-- for example, placing Japanese-Americans in internment camps during WWII because we thought there might be spies among them, or turning away boatloads of Jews fleeing Nazi persecution for the same reason, are periods that we, as Americans should look back upon with shame. I don't want to be part of the generation that sent a bunch of helpless people back into the hands of ISIS because I was worried about my own skin. Maybe it's because of where I live, but I've gotten pretty used to the idea that a terrorist attack could happen anywhere, at any time. In my view, a few thousand more immigrants don't change the odds very much. And honestly, I can't BELIEVE there are people who want to be President who are willing to say out loud that they would be ok with taking some refugees, but only the Christian ones. That is appalling.There's no other word for it. So, If we decide that the relatively small risk of a terrorist attack is worth our turning our back, as a nation, on thousands of terrified (mostly) women and kids, then we are no longer the country that we have always claimed to be. If that's ok with everyone, then I suppose it is what it is, but if we do that, we ought to change the last line of the National Anthem to something else, because we can no longer claim to be the land of the free and the home of the brave.
Apparently they are not mostly women and children. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/09/30/europes-asylum-seek...

Except that they are.   http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php

Only 22% of Syrian refugees are males aged 18-59. 50% are women.

2015-11-19 2:56 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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