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2015-11-23 11:26 AM
in reply to: #5153173


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Subject: RE: Swim frequency question
To answer a couple questions, I'm 5'9", 155, stronger runner than anything, adult onset swimmer. Signed up for 70.3 in Raleigh this June, and shooting for ironman Louisville in 2017 (hometown). I swim in a 20m pool (my only option) and certainly can mix it up from week to week (meaning longer swims less frequency). I'm not a fast swimmer, I'm just trying to finish the swim legs of the longer races and then play to my strengths.

I love all this feedback! Thank you and keep it coming!


2015-11-23 11:33 AM
in reply to: 0


319
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Sarasota, Florida
Subject: RE: Swim frequency question
fwiw, i try at least 3 sessions a week, one with focus on drills and technique, another with focus on speed work, then another focused on distance. I have been moderately happy with the results but spend more like 45 min a session if time permits. Caveat, I'm trying to figure this out with you but have no intentions on going further than Oly.

Edited by runtim23 2015-11-23 11:40 AM
2015-11-23 12:02 PM
in reply to: runtim23

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Subject: RE: Swim frequency question

Originally posted by runtim23
If your consistent 100 all-out is 1:40....then you should hit the wall in 1:55 on intervals. How much rest you need to get more reps in is up to you. BUT......I would increase the rest before I increased my swim time. The more reps the better. What you want to work on is decreasing the rest time, and thus, decreasing your interval time. The interval time is swim +rest. In your case, for now, you need to increase the rest. If your actual swim time is increasing then your stroke is falling apart and you're not gaining anything except ingraining bad form. Find the least amount of rest needed to get you to the wall in ~85% of your best time for the number of reps you are wanting to do.
Ok. I have been starting my stopwatch then leave it so I come back after the first 100, rest for 15 sec then send myself back out on every 2:00 min mark so my rest time is reduced each rep from say 15 sec 10 sec 5 sec till I can't maintain. I CAN swim faster if I use my funky 4 beat kick or a 6 beat kick but I wouldn't race using those so strictly keep everything with a correct 2 beat kick. I was under the impression that's how intervals work. You constrain yourself to intervals on the clock.

You do.  (Constrain your intervals to the clock, that is).  But you also want your actual swim time to remain close each rep.  Some people will set an interval that is 'comfortable' for them, such that they are able to go easy enough on the swim that they only need a modest amount of rest in order to swim that pace again.  But LB's suggestion (a good one) is to set the target pace based on your capacity (on an 'all-out' test) and then tweak the rest in order to allow you to hit that pace repeatedly.  As you get faster (which you should by swimming often at that hard pace), your swim pace will drop.  As you get fitter (which you should by swimming a lot), you will need less rest as well. 

Of course, if you do enough reps, eventually you will not be able to make the interval.  You can decide to keep going until you run out of rest completely (once you don't hit the wall before the next send-off) or just stop once you no longer finish in your 'acceptable' pace range.  There might be good reasons to do either at times.  But for someone in your situation, I would guess that the latter is the better course most of the time.  Take a short break once you know you are not able to maintain your target pace anymore and try to re-start the intervals by swimming the target pace while tacking on a slightly longer rest for your interval.

 

2015-11-23 3:02 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay


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Sarasota, Florida
Subject: RE: Swim frequency question
Thank you.
2015-11-24 6:32 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Swim frequency question
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by Left Brain

I agree with 4X30.......and if that's all you have then I would swim a 100 all-out and see what your time is.  Then pick a rest period that allow you to hit 85-90% of that 100 time every time you swim it.  I don't care if it's a 20 second rest or a  minute rest.  Hit the wall in that time every interval.  When you get to the point where you can hit your interval every time, drop your rest 5 seconds and stay after it.  Drop your rest, not your 100 time.

Example - you can swim a 100  all-out in 1:50, but you need 30 seconds to hit 2 minutes every time you swim it.  Your interval is 2:30.  Every time the clock hits 2:30 your off.  When you get there for a couple workouts, drop 5 seconds OF REST for your next workout.......now your interval is 2:25.  You may find, soon enough, that your rest time is the same as you drop......that's fine.....keep dropping the rest period.

There really is no point in complicating a 30 minute workout.  I would do a 5 minute warmup alternating 50 swim and 50 kick..... then do your intervals, then do a 3-5 minute cooldown of 75% kicking.

Is the 85-90% of your all out 100 time a rule of thumb for completing 100 repeats? I've never heard that. I certainly don't do my repeats that fast.

That's for hitting the wall, not for interval.  I don't know if it's a rule of thumb.....but it's what my kid's coach has me doing.  I know it's what they do consistently, but they are more around 85% because they are swimming for 2.5 hours.  I watched them last week do 50 100's on 1:10 SCY.....they were hitting the wall in :55 - :58....it hurt me just watching.




I want to be on the pool deck just watching this. I'd love it
2015-11-25 6:36 AM
in reply to: zedzded

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Subject: RE: Swim frequency question
Originally posted by zedzded

Originally posted by linkslefty

Would it be better for me to do four 30 minute swims a week or two 1 hour swims each week? I'm currently trying to structure my off season training.

Thanks!


Probably 4 x 30min sessions, but make sure it's mostly hard, short warm up and cool down


Disagree- doing 30 minute swim workouts is much more wasted time than doing the 2 x 1 hr workouts. You gain a lot by going longer distances/ more sets at one time. Not to mention your wasting twice the amount of time driving back and forth and changing.

I personally will not get in a pool unless I'm going to do 2000 yards or more.


2015-11-25 8:28 AM
in reply to: mike761


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Sarasota, Florida
Subject: RE: Swim frequency question
so your thinking is to use the longer workouts to work on endurance? This makes sense to me for triathlon, but considering I'm a self taught monkey trying to copy youtube videos and books I find I need more frequency to get a better feel for the water and optimize technique. I obviously haven't mastered this swimming 2:00/100s but I have noticed much more precision and comfort as well as perceiving a better "grip" on the water. Of course the next argument is all that perfect stroke business goes out the window when you're battling 50 other swimmers in the middle of a choppy OWS.
2015-11-25 8:48 AM
in reply to: #5153173


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Subject: RE: Swim frequency question
I am probably a 2:15/100m swimmer just trying to build a stroke that will go the distance. As long as I can finish the swim with some gas in the tank I'm happy. I'm confident in my running and am using this winter to log quality hours on my trainer. I do question the speed work advocates as opposed to spending that time working on endurance.
2015-11-25 9:34 AM
in reply to: linkslefty

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Subject: RE: Swim frequency question

Originally posted by linkslefty I am probably a 2:15/100m swimmer just trying to build a stroke that will go the distance. As long as I can finish the swim with some gas in the tank I'm happy. I'm confident in my running and am using this winter to log quality hours on my trainer. I do question the speed work advocates as opposed to spending that time working on endurance.

You can build your endurance by doing the short sets if you use the right pace.  Again you should probably be switching it up week to week.  Alternating between 4X30 and 2X60 since those are you're only options.  If you choose to work on just building endurance you're going to have a longer road ahead. 

It would be a good idea to try and get a video of yourself swimming and post it here.  I'm betting there's technique issues that could be worked out. 

2015-11-25 9:52 AM
in reply to: linkslefty

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Subject: RE: Swim frequency question

Originally posted by linkslefty I am probably a 2:15/100m swimmer just trying to build a stroke that will go the distance. As long as I can finish the swim with some gas in the tank I'm happy. I'm confident in my running and am using this winter to log quality hours on my trainer. I do question the speed work advocates as opposed to spending that time working on endurance.

That's because you don't understand swimming.

2015-11-25 9:52 AM
in reply to: runtim23

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Subject: RE: Swim frequency question

Originally posted by runtim23 so your thinking is to use the longer workouts to work on endurance? This makes sense to me for triathlon, but considering I'm a self taught monkey trying to copy youtube videos and books I find I need more frequency to get a better feel for the water and optimize technique. I obviously haven't mastered this swimming 2:00/100s but I have noticed much more precision and comfort as well as perceiving a better "grip" on the water. Of course the next argument is all that perfect stroke business goes out the window when you're battling 50 other swimmers in the middle of a choppy OWS.

All of this works on "endurance". He's looking at best use of time.



2015-11-25 10:00 AM
in reply to: Goggles Pizzano

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Subject: RE: Swim frequency question
Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano

Originally posted by linkslefty I am probably a 2:15/100m swimmer just trying to build a stroke that will go the distance. As long as I can finish the swim with some gas in the tank I'm happy. I'm confident in my running and am using this winter to log quality hours on my trainer. I do question the speed work advocates as opposed to spending that time working on endurance.

You can build your endurance by doing the short sets if you use the right pace.  Again you should probably be switching it up week to week.  Alternating between 4X30 and 2X60 since those are you're only options.  If you choose to work on just building endurance you're going to have a longer road ahead. 

It would be a good idea to try and get a video of yourself swimming and post it here.  I'm betting there's technique issues that could be worked out. 




x2

At 2:15/100m I would bet that your stroke is 80% of the problem over fitness being 20%. It might be a best use of your time spending a good portion of that time with a coach/teacher. That's where you'd likely see the biggest gains.
2015-11-25 12:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim frequency question
nevermind

Edited by marcag 2015-11-25 12:17 PM
2015-11-25 4:49 PM
in reply to: #5153173


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Subject: RE: Swim frequency question
I've had one lesson and plan on spending some time this winter with a tri masters class. I will try and get a hold of a video to try and post. I do my posting from my phone so I'm not sure if I'll be able to.
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