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Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? (Page 2)
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 2015-11-25 12:50 PM in reply to: marcag |
 1502   Katy, Texas |  Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not?Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by marcag . for me, 2x very intense bike sessions, 1x easier 1x very hard swim sessions, 2x easier 6-7x easier run sessions. I always do the ST100/100 challenge. usually brings me to March with a reasonable FTP, probably a bit below bike endurance, but a solid run. PB on on marathon ? NO, but I could run a decent half. I then move to more quality on the runs, longer bikes (no more snow). this is more a reality of living in a Nordic country. Always monitor for not overloading yourself. This is a 2x per day regimen which is NOT for everyone. So this got me to thinking about actually laying this out and seeing what it looked like. I'm able to workout mornings and lunches just about every day. Saturday is a workout that my wife and I started doing together last week and she really likes it, so that makes her happy, so I have to keep it (I do the swim on my own and she meets me for the weights and spin class). Here is what I came up with. I think this is very doable and would maintain my bike and swimming while still giving a decent build up to a marathon. Thoughts? Edit: I originally had this as text, but it's easier to see as an attachment with the formatting from Word. the devil is in the details of those workouts. And your priority isn't clear Bike or Marathon. For example, if the spin classes are really hard, then a) too much intensity overall b) long run and spin on same day is tough if the spin classes aren't hard, then there isn't enough bike intensity IF bike improvement is your priority. in what I threw out, all most bikes are really hard, most runs are easy (with exceptions) and the goal is to be ready for the next phase not to PB a marathon. But the result is a decent ftp and a good run base. With a few additional weeks I could probably put out a really good half M It also depends on what your M goal would be. Really well trained you are probably sub 3:10 material. 3:20 is probably much easier for you if you mix your training up and remain multisport I tweaked it a bit based on some of your comments. Regarding focus (and I could be way off on this) my gut feel is that since my bike is still a bit behind the curve, that I can see improvements without a strict bike focus with everything else dropped to a minimum. To date I have not done a bike focus at all and continue to see good gains on the bike. Swimming has been getting better pretty consistantly, although at a relatively slower pace as it would take a lot to see any major improvements at my current level. Also, I'm now swimming with a group that has two ex-division I swimmers, one of which (who is in his late 40's and therefore well off his times at college I'm sure) is just a hair faster than me, just as competative and apparently can't stand a triathlete right next to him during sets. So he does everything he possibly can to drop me, and I do everything I possibility can to swim as fast or faster...so those workouts are off the charts with both of us wheezing, coughing and gaging afterward...which is awesome. Running however has been pretty stagnant since I started triathlon. Since my marathon PR is from so long ago and a 3:50, it is just a duck sitting out there waiting to get knocked off. I'd be happy with 3:20 but of course, much happier with 3:10. (Capture.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Capture.JPG (64KB - 6 downloads) |
| 2015-11-25 1:06 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722  | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by marcag . for me, 2x very intense bike sessions, 1x easier 1x very hard swim sessions, 2x easier 6-7x easier run sessions. I always do the ST100/100 challenge. usually brings me to March with a reasonable FTP, probably a bit below bike endurance, but a solid run. PB on on marathon ? NO, but I could run a decent half. I then move to more quality on the runs, longer bikes (no more snow). this is more a reality of living in a Nordic country. Always monitor for not overloading yourself. This is a 2x per day regimen which is NOT for everyone. So this got me to thinking about actually laying this out and seeing what it looked like. I'm able to workout mornings and lunches just about every day. Saturday is a workout that my wife and I started doing together last week and she really likes it, so that makes her happy, so I have to keep it (I do the swim on my own and she meets me for the weights and spin class). Here is what I came up with. I think this is very doable and would maintain my bike and swimming while still giving a decent build up to a marathon. Thoughts? Edit: I originally had this as text, but it's easier to see as an attachment with the formatting from Word. the devil is in the details of those workouts. And your priority isn't clear Bike or Marathon. For example, if the spin classes are really hard, then a) too much intensity overall b) long run and spin on same day is tough if the spin classes aren't hard, then there isn't enough bike intensity IF bike improvement is your priority. in what I threw out, all most bikes are really hard, most runs are easy (with exceptions) and the goal is to be ready for the next phase not to PB a marathon. But the result is a decent ftp and a good run base. With a few additional weeks I could probably put out a really good half M It also depends on what your M goal would be. Really well trained you are probably sub 3:10 material. 3:20 is probably much easier for you if you mix your training up and remain multisport I tweaked it a bit based on some of your comments. Regarding focus (and I could be way off on this) my gut feel is that since my bike is still a bit behind the curve, that I can see improvements without a strict bike focus with everything else dropped to a minimum. To date I have not done a bike focus at all and continue to see good gains on the bike. Swimming has been getting better pretty consistantly, although at a relatively slower pace as it would take a lot to see any major improvements at my current level. Also, I'm now swimming with a group that has two ex-division I swimmers, one of which (who is in his late 40's and therefore well off his times at college I'm sure) is just a hair faster than me, just as competative and apparently can't stand a triathlete right next to him during sets. So he does everything he possibly can to drop me, and I do everything I possibility can to swim as fast or faster...so those workouts are off the charts with both of us wheezing, coughing and gaging afterward...which is awesome. Running however has been pretty stagnant since I started triathlon. Since my marathon PR is from so long ago and a 3:50, it is just a duck sitting out there waiting to get knocked off. I'd be happy with 3:20 but of course, much happier with 3:10. again, the devil is in the details. We may have different definitions of tempo runs, run intervals and trainer ride intervals but if spin class is hard, you are going hard almost every day except your 3hr ride Sunday. if spin class is not hard, you are not doing enough bike to improve The number of sessions and when they are laid out is not the biggest item. The content of the sessions is Edited by marcag 2015-11-25 1:07 PM |
| 2015-11-25 2:13 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Jason N I've given this more thought and do these really have to be mutually exclusive? In order to meet my goals in triathlon, both my running and bike have to improve. My bike has to improve more, but both need to move up. Originally posted by 3mar The marathon for me is a bit of a chip on my shoulder as I have only done one (outside of the IM) and it was when I was just begining to run. So I don't feel that PR is anywhere near my current level of fitness. How big is that marathon chip on your shoulder as compared to the triathlon one? Well...if that's the case then why not also train for a 10k swim while you're at it? You had an original plan to do an off season bike focus. From what I gather in all your original posts, it was because that is where your lowest hanging fruit is. So to answer your question, yes, they are mutually exclusive. You will not see the maximum bike fitness gains if you choose to also train for a marathon in such a way that you want to nail it. Of course running is still part of triathlon, and improving run fitness will help some in your triathlon goals...but will it help as much as doing a real bike focus? Ask yourself the questions again. Why did you want to do a bike focus to begin with?
ETA: I just looked over your proposed plan. You don't actually plan to run that much, and you plan to put a huge chunk of your mileage into your long run. That's not a great recipe for a good marathon...and it's not a very good way to structure a bike focus either as the recovery costs of the long run will be higher and impact your ability to ride with quality. My guess is you'll end up with the worst of both worlds with that plan. A sub par marathon and sub par bike focus results. Of course, that's just my opinion...worth what you paid for it. Edited by Jason N 2015-11-25 2:18 PM |
| 2015-11-25 2:21 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Expert 2355  Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by 3mar Now that I have moved and am running in weather in the 40's and 50's I have honestly found my love for running again. The past 4 years living in the Keys made running miserable and nothing more than a chore. Especially for longer runs. The past couple of weeks running in cooler weather has been incredibly enjoyable. Rather than dreading long runs, I look forward to them and enjoy every minute of it. In addition to clocking some really fast times at the same HR level. What would have been an 8:15-8:30 pace at ~135-140 BPM is now easily 7:30-7:45 feeling great afterward. So now I have the itch to do a marathon. One of my hold ups is that I really need to work on biking and told myself that is how I would try to devout a lot of my off season. How much training does it take to do a legitamite marathon. I'd like to be in the 3:10-3:20 range. I don't want to sacrifice my biking though. Is it possible to do both? How much do I have to focus on running? Edit: I am thinking of doing the Austin Marathon in February. I'm currently running around 20 miles/week which includes a 10ish mile long run. Hmmm I read the words "Off-season" and "Marathon" in the same sentence, something doesn't add up..... You put out a time that tells me you would probably want a peak performance or close to it....during the off-season. You want to work on your biking and that is your focus too? Pick one, its the off-season. Unless you don't plan on racing much past June then go ahead, but this is a recipe for injury or burnout by June. It's in February? That gives you 2 months of "quality" training before cutting back the load, if the race is later in the month. I would say bag it. Unless you train for this as a lifestyle, then go ahead because the social and enjoyment you get out of training and racing takes precedence over putting forth a peak performance. Of course I say this without really knowing anything about your background, but I am categorizing you right now and basing my comments off that. |
| 2015-11-25 2:34 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Member 326 | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? I say go for it. I did 2 Ironman races in 2014, the last one in early September. I then took all of September and October off from structured training and just did I wanted to do. Playing hockey, running when I wanted, cycling to work, curling. Nothing structured. Then I started a run focused build towards a marathon in the first week of May. I continued to swim 3 days a week (2500-2700m each day) and biked 4 days a week. I only ran 4 days a week. A couple tempo runs, a medium length run and one long run each week. I qualified for Boston (3:10, 46 years old) in May of 2015. That was my first stand alone marathon I had ever ran. I then went on to more triathlon structured training and did 3 Ironman races in 13 weeks. I then took September and October off from structured training again (did run a couple 1/2 marathons in there just for fun (1:35/1:34)). Now I am back to structured training again for Boston in April of 2016. After that I have 2 Ironman races scheduled for 2016. I am not in the Ironman races to win. I am a 12:30 kind of athlete. I just enjoy the races and travelling to the cool race destinations. |
| 2015-11-26 9:32 AM in reply to: 3mar |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? I was also toying with the idea of training for a marathon in the off-season but with the goal of a BQ. I'm turning 45 next year and so if I put in the mileage the MacMillan calculator based on my half marathon time predicts that I'd have a sizeable time cushion to give it a decent shot. After looking into this more, and as many have said above, its hard to train for a marathon and also build or even just maintain swim and bike. I came to the realization that I love triathlon more than just running, and so have put my goal of running Boston on the back burner for now. My target marathon is in May and so that would pretty much write off the first few months of the tri season in Canada. Your February target race may give you enough time to be ready for some races in the summer.
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| 2015-11-26 11:26 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
| 1508 Cypress, Texas | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by BlueBoy26 I have a similar question on doing Marathons in the off season. My concern about Marathons is more the toll on the body. Setting aside the fact that if I am training for a marathon rather then working on my cycling and swimming I won't be as competitive in those two discipline could running a full marathon also hurt my run discipline if I am doing 70.3's as my "A races" and 5K's, 1/2 marathons, and sprint triathlons for intermediate goals? It depends on some things. The marathon training works for some largely because they will consistently put in more running than they have before. So not the marathon itself, but the run volume from it that is helping. Some of the plans can get rather lopsided (or unbalanced) in the mileage distribution though. 3mar is pushing this with his run plan as there are only 4 runs a week and the long run is up around 50% of the weekly volume. Where I've seen the marathon work better for people is when they can run enough that the LR is more like 30-33% of weekly. ~25% would be better still but this volume is huge. Some people still do well with the heavy LR%, but seems to be more scattered. Hence asking what 3mar was looking to get out of doing the marathon. And the possibility of redistributing the miles to push for a fast 10k (or something shorter than a marathon). Some people do get specific injuries. Some just get worn down physically even if nothing really breaks. Others mentally burn out.
Originally posted by jennifer_runs Originally posted by BlueBoy26 The other thing is that for many people, how well they do on the run of a triathlon (especially the longer ones) has more to do with bike fitness and how they do on the bike than their run fitness. If you spend a lot more time on the run at the expense of the bike, you run the risk of burning yourself on the bike leg and then having a really tough run. Many people with good run fitness end up disappointing themselves on the run of a triathlon because of their lack of bike fitness. I have a similar question on doing Marathons in the off season. My concern about Marathons is more the toll on the body. Setting aside the fact that if I am training for a marathon rather then working on my cycling and swimming I won't be as competitive in those two discipline could running a full marathon also hurt my run discipline if I am doing 70.3's as my "A races" and 5K's, 1/2 marathons, and sprint triathlons for intermediate goals?
Well..when I do full Marathons I do between 22-30 miles Monday through Friday and 12-22 miles on Saturday. Some of my running group would do two-a-days would get up to almost 60 miles a week. I would only be over 45 miles one or two of my peak volume weeks though. For triathlon I do 10-16 miles from Monday to Thursday and 10-16 miles on Friday. My total run volume is 25-26 miles a week, but that is only about 1/3 of my total training volume and I get a lot of cross over to my running performance from my swim and bike training. I realize that increasing your bike fitness can get you to the run fresher which translated to faster triathlon run times, but my concern is really not a balance question for training but a recover question. My P.R. in the 5K is a 16:44 (ran this twice on two different courses). When I was training for mile and other mid-distance races I was told to NOT do a marathon because it would kill my speed and could take a year of more to recover. When I got to a point when I didn't have a prayer at ever breaking my 5K PR again I started to do longer races because I wanted a new challenge. My last 5K before my first full marathon was a 17:35. After my full Marathon I spent the following two years focused on marathon training but did lot of 5K races along the way and went into ever race with the goal to break 18 minutes but the closest I got was an 18:01 (most were between 18:05-18:15). So for me the Marathon appeared to be a speed killer. I decided to focus on half marathons and so I haven't done any full marathons in the past 6 years, and my 5K times is now back under 18:00 again. I know some newbies to Marathon. They look up to me as a runner and seeing their success this fall in Marathon has made me consider training for another Marathon myself. If I do another one the goal will be to go under 3 hours. If I am going to do one it is only worth it if I am racing. So while the training volume of a Marathon is something I welcome I am concerned about the physical toll of the race itself.
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| 2015-11-26 1:53 PM in reply to: 3mar |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? I appreciate everyone's input. Reading through all the responses, I find myself going back and forth. Here are a couple of thoughts regarding some of the comments: As far as mental burn out; I'm not concerned there. Quite frankly, the current situation where I have 6 months without an event on the horizon provides much more of an issue. That's really where this all came about; I've never had an off season. The past four years I have been in the Keys and there are events all year round. Even prior to being in triathlon, I never went more than 3 months without an event of some sort. I have had the same pattern; I pick an event, spend 2-3 months ramping up to it, taper, race, rest for 2-3 weeks building back to base level, then start ramping up to the next event for 2-3 months and repeat. Physically and mentally this has worked for me. I'm sitting here looking at no events from November 2015 to May 2016 (oly) and that's just not working for me. There are not triathlons prior to that. So I'm enjoying running, I haven't done a marathon in years, and there is one in February. Would it be so detrimental to switch things around a bit, have a bit of a run focus for 2 months, run the marathon, then have 3 months to build for the oly? Since I will put the miles in running for the marathon, I could make the 3 months leading up to the oly a heavy bike focus. In that thought processes I'd back off on the bike a little leading to the marathon. We always say to listen to your body, this is what my body is telling me, so why not go for it? |
| 2015-11-26 6:25 PM in reply to: 3mar |
| 98 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by 3mar We always say to listen to your body, this is what my body is telling me, so why not go for it? Yes! Unless you're planning on qualifying for the Olympics or going pro, I say do what sounds like the most fun to you! (This is why I suck at cycling, BTW!) |
| 2015-11-27 4:52 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Veteran 2441 Western Australia | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by 3mar I was actually thinking this same thing. I appreciate everyone's input. Reading through all the responses, I find myself going back and forth. Here are a couple of thoughts regarding some of the comments: As far as mental burn out; I'm not concerned there. Quite frankly, the current situation where I have 6 months without an event on the horizon provides much more of an issue. That's really where this all came about; I've never had an off season. The past four years I have been in the Keys and there are events all year round. Even prior to being in triathlon, I never went more than 3 months without an event of some sort. I have had the same pattern; I pick an event, spend 2-3 months ramping up to it, taper, race, rest for 2-3 weeks building back to base level, then start ramping up to the next event for 2-3 months and repeat. Physically and mentally this has worked for me. I'm sitting here looking at no events from November 2015 to May 2016 (oly) and that's just not working for me. There are not triathlons prior to that. So I'm enjoying running, I haven't done a marathon in years, and there is one in February. Would it be so detrimental to switch things around a bit, have a bit of a run focus for 2 months, run the marathon, then have 3 months to build for the oly? Since I will put the miles in running for the marathon, I could make the 3 months leading up to the oly a heavy bike focus. In that thought processes I'd back off on the bike a little leading to the marathon. We always say to listen to your body, this is what my body is telling me, so why not go for it? Why couldn't you do marathon training with mainly swimming cross training until Feb and then drop the running back and lift the bike up for the 3 months prior to the Oly? I don't have the experience to know if this is a good idea or not it just seemed like the practical answer. Sure it isn't a bike focused off season, but sometimes priorities change and you just have to go with it. You might not end up where you hoped to be but you might enjoy the journey more. |
| 2015-11-28 11:19 AM in reply to: BlueBoy26 |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by BlueBoy26 Well..when I do full Marathons I do between 22-30 miles Monday through Friday and 12-22 miles on Saturday. Some of my running group would do two-a-days would get up to almost 60 miles a week. I would only be over 45 miles one or two of my peak volume weeks though. For triathlon I do 10-16 miles from Monday to Thursday and 10-16 miles on Friday. My total run volume is 25-26 miles a week, but that is only about 1/3 of my total training volume and I get a lot of cross over to my running performance from my swim and bike training. I realize that increasing your bike fitness can get you to the run fresher which translated to faster triathlon run times, but my concern is really not a balance question for training but a recover question. My P.R. in the 5K is a 16:44 (ran this twice on two different courses). When I was training for mile and other mid-distance races I was told to NOT do a marathon because it would kill my speed and could take a year of more to recover. When I got to a point when I didn't have a prayer at ever breaking my 5K PR again I started to do longer races because I wanted a new challenge. My last 5K before my first full marathon was a 17:35. After my full Marathon I spent the following two years focused on marathon training but did lot of 5K races along the way and went into ever race with the goal to break 18 minutes but the closest I got was an 18:01 (most were between 18:05-18:15). So for me the Marathon appeared to be a speed killer. I decided to focus on half marathons and so I haven't done any full marathons in the past 6 years, and my 5K times is now back under 18:00 again. I know some newbies to Marathon. They look up to me as a runner and seeing their success this fall in Marathon has made me consider training for another Marathon myself. If I do another one the goal will be to go under 3 hours. If I am going to do one it is only worth it if I am racing. So while the training volume of a Marathon is something I welcome I am concerned about the physical toll of the race itself. For a marathon it sounds like you've done close to what 3mar is planning, and being cautioned about. Not just weekly mileage totals, but how they are put on. |
| 2015-11-29 4:20 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
| 1508 Cypress, Texas | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by BlueBoy26 ... the training volume of a Marathon is something I welcome. I am concerned about the physical toll of the race itself... For a marathon it sounds like you've done close to what 3mar is planning, and being cautioned about. Not just weekly mileage totals, but how they are put on. I knew there were people out there that can do a full marathon in 2:20 minutes one week and run a sub 15:00 5K a few weeks later. I figure that is an unfair comparison to me though since some people can sustain 2 hour 20 minute high intensity work on stored glycogen, but if you are doing a 3-4 hour marathon you are going to exhaust your glycogen storage and those last few miles after you hit that wall are what hurt the most. So I was hoping there would be some experience in the group on how Marathons effect the foot speed of average people in shorter races. these articles were all I found. Article #1 Article #2 Article #3 This first one said that that if you ask a dozen coaches if running a marathon will effect your running at shorter distances that 1/3 will say yes, 1/3 will say no, and 1/3 will decline to answer the question. I think he hit it it about right on the head because I know of specific example where people have lost speed from running marathons and when they run a marathon and then PR as shorter distances a few week later. The second article focuses on the toll of marathons on the body and the 3rd article uses the example of a 2:10 marathoner that PR in the 5k distance after marathon focused training for years (which I feel is not a good indication of how a Marathon may effect my speed).
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| 2015-11-30 8:11 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by 3mar We always say to listen to your body, this is what my body is telling me, so why not go for it? I'm pretty sure it's your head, not your body, telling you to run a marathon. But, regardless, do it if you want to. But don't fool yourself into thinking it is consistent with focusing on your triathlon weakness. It is NOT. You COULD work on your biking and improve your running at the same time. However, this would not involve running a marathon anytime soon. Running a marathon wouldn't be the best way to work on your triathlon running even if you didn't have the goal of lifting your biking substantially. Running a marathon, for the most part, is a goal unto itself. And to do 'well' at that goal, you will have to make some sacrifices in some other areas. Whether those sacrifices are 'acceptable' is up to you. |
| 2015-11-30 9:35 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? 3mar. Improvement comes when you put time in. If you want to improve on the bike, you're going to need to put the time in. Sure, you can do a marathon, and then do an Olympic later, but the Olympic will not be your best possible effort on the bike. think of it like college, sure you can go to that party the night before your exam...but you won't do as well on your exam |
| 2015-11-30 12:19 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by dmiller5 think of it like college, sure you can go to that party the night before your exam...but you won't do as well on your exam But if your body says you should go to the party...then I think you should listen to your body... |
| 2015-11-30 1:59 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by dmiller5 think of it like college, sure you can go to that party the night before your exam...but you won't do as well on your exam But if your body says you should go to the party...then I think you should listen to your body... does this party have cute girls? which part of my body are we asking |
| 2015-11-30 2:46 PM in reply to: 3mar |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Over the weekend I put pen to paper to see exactly what mileage I'd have to do leading up to the marathon, and once I saw it on a calendar I realized that it would be too much and (as noted here) would likely be detrimental to my triathlon training for no real gain. So I've decided to forego the marathon. I am glad I went through the exercise however as it finally got me to sit down and look at my new schedule (working an office job and all) and schedule out how my weeks should look. To this point, I have just been winging it. The modified week below has 4-5 bikes/week totalling 5.5-7.5 hrs and includes a long ride, two spin classes and 1-2 trainer rides which will be various workouts on threshold, intervals, etc. (i.e. they'll hurt). I've got 3-4 runs/week as I wanted to do at least one long run, one interval run and one tempo, then I have an optional easy run if I feel like it and have time. Swimming I have 2-3 times per week. I think this will allow me to focus on the bike and still build run speed. Thoughts? Rather than progressively increasing time, my plan would be to increase effort on the specific workouts (interval and tempos on runs and any of the trainer sessions on the bike). I'm not sure how much the spin classes are helping, but they are convenient in terms of time and they certainly get my HR up...and down, and up and....well you get the picture. (Capture.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Capture.JPG (55KB - 6 downloads) |
| 2015-11-30 3:20 PM in reply to: 0 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Too much intensity planned for your running. One tempo run every other week, at the most, for now. Make the "optional" run planned. Throw in another short, easy run as optional. When you "are not feeling it", first thing to get dropped is the tempo run, then a short run. Probably too much hard biking too. Depends on what you do in those sessions, but I would start with 2 or 3 of those spin/trainer sessions plus your long ride and see how it goes after a few weeks. Easy swim on Sat is mostly a 'waste'. Only do it if you enjoy it. Or make it more of a workout when you do feel good.
Edit: On the whole, it is also a lot of volume (~13+ hrs). If it works for you, great. But the best plans are the ones you can execute consistently while life goes on around you, so make sure it fits that requirement first. Edited by JohnnyKay 2015-11-30 3:24 PM |
| 2015-11-30 3:31 PM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
| Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by JohnnyKay Too much intensity planned for your running. One tempo run every other week, at the most, for now. Make the "optional" run planned. Throw in another short, easy run as optional. When you "are not feeling it", first thing to get dropped is the tempo run, then a short run. Probably too much hard biking too. Depends on what you do in those sessions, but I would start with 2 or 3 of those spin/trainer sessions plus your long ride and see how it goes after a few weeks. Easy swim on Sat is mostly a 'waste'. Only do it if you enjoy it. Or make it more of a workout when you do feel good.
Edit: On the whole, it is also a lot of volume (~13+ hrs). If it works for you, great. But the best plans are the ones you can execute consistently while life goes on around you, so make sure it fits that requirement first. x2 Ride 3-4 days, but make those days count. The hardest days can't be back to back. Run more often, but mostly easy. Run too hard and you compromise your ability to nail the bike workouts. |
| 2015-11-30 4:17 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by JohnnyKay Too much intensity planned for your running. One tempo run every other week, at the most, for now. Make the "optional" run planned. Throw in another short, easy run as optional. When you "are not feeling it", first thing to get dropped is the tempo run, then a short run. Probably too much hard biking too. Depends on what you do in those sessions, but I would start with 2 or 3 of those spin/trainer sessions plus your long ride and see how it goes after a few weeks. Easy swim on Sat is mostly a 'waste'. Only do it if you enjoy it. Or make it more of a workout when you do feel good.
Edit: On the whole, it is also a lot of volume (~13+ hrs). If it works for you, great. But the best plans are the ones you can execute consistently while life goes on around you, so make sure it fits that requirement first. x2 Ride 3-4 days, but make those days count. The hardest days can't be back to back. Run more often, but mostly easy. Run too hard and you compromise your ability to nail the bike workouts. Ugghhh...but running slow is so booooring. That's always been my struggle. I really appreciate your input, so I tweeked it a bit. I knocked off one of the trainer rides (the spin classes and trainer rides are really interchangeable). I also changed the monday run to alternate between a tempo run one week and an easy run the other week. Made the easy run standard. I also made the Monday spin class only for weeks where I do an easy run. On the Saturday swim, by "easy" I just mean a reduced main set, but it is still at high intensity. For example; this past Saturday I did a 500m warm up, 400 kicking, 200 drills then did a 5 x 100 main set with a goal of hitting each 100m under 1:17, then did 2 x 200 pull and 100 cool down. I consider that "easy" because the main set is 500 meters as opposed to 1,500 which I would do on a hard day. But I'm certainly not just splashing around. As far as sustainability, I've been at 9 hrs/week with no issues. I can work out every morning and lunch during the week and much prefer to do so. My gym is near my office so by getting up and driving to the gym to workout I avoid rush hour and the saved time almost makes it a wash. I have trouble sitting for 8 hours straight, so lunch time workouts are a saviour. As for the weekends, the Saturday workout is really a family thing. We take the kids and they go to the daycare at the gym which they enjoy and my wife and I do the workout together, then we get the kids and go back in the pool with them so they can play there. It makes for a fun day. The only selfish time is my long ride on Sunday. (Capture.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Capture.JPG (38KB - 6 downloads) |
| 2015-11-30 4:56 PM in reply to: 3mar |
| Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Is there any way you can move the Monday spin class to Tuesday. It's going to be hard to get in good quality on the bike if you plan to ride hard Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Throw in the running intensity based on how you feel I guess. I'm making these suggestions based on the fact that your bike focus will include some really hard bike intervals. No disrespect to you, but I'm not sure you quite understand how hard "hard" really is on the bike yet. If you did, you wouldn't suggest a plan like you are now. You invested in a power meter recently. Time to put it to use. |
| 2015-12-01 7:23 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? IF, this is a big IF, the goal is to improve your bike I would, -do what Jason says and spread out the bikes -I understand the spin class with the wife is convenient, so that's OK, but lose the other spin class -do at least 2 of the power mentor workouts per week. They should kick your a$$. Use your PM. That with a long bike & 1 spin sounds good -run easy at first. If you survive :-) then consider adding some more work to the run be it tempo, speed, strength.....which could be debated ad-nauseum. - But the reality is if you kick your s$$ on the bike, you probably won't want to do this anyways. Monitor for burn out Edited by marcag 2015-12-01 7:24 AM |
| 2015-12-01 8:07 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by marcag IF, this is a big IF, the goal is to improve your bike I would, -do what Jason says and spread out the bikes -I understand the spin class with the wife is convenient, so that's OK, but lose the other spin class -do at least 2 of the power mentor workouts per week. They should kick your a$$. Use your PM. That with a long bike & 1 spin sounds good -run easy at first. If you survive :-) then consider adding some more work to the run be it tempo, speed, strength.....which could be debated ad-nauseum. - But the reality is if you kick your s$$ on the bike, you probably won't want to do this anyways. Monitor for burn out A six day week would make scheduling workouts a lot easier. I have had the darndest time getting things to space out properly. Taking into account yours and others advice, I put together another itteration. Our kids' swim lessons just got switched to late Saturday mornings (all three moved up a level!) so that nixes the Satruday morning workout with the wife which frees me up to do a long run in the morning then take the kids to their swim lessons while my wife does her long run. It also makes scheduling a bit easier. (Capture.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Capture.JPG (37KB - 5 downloads) |
| 2015-12-01 8:24 AM in reply to: Jason N |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by Jason N Is there any way you can move the Monday spin class to Tuesday. It's going to be hard to get in good quality on the bike if you plan to ride hard Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Throw in the running intensity based on how you feel I guess. I'm making these suggestions based on the fact that your bike focus will include some really hard bike intervals. No disrespect to you, but I'm not sure you quite understand how hard "hard" really is on the bike yet. If you did, you wouldn't suggest a plan like you are now. You invested in a power meter recently. Time to put it to use. I've been wondering that myself lately, and not just on the bike but in the pool too. Now that I'm swimming with some legit guys, I'm amazed at how hard we go the entire practice and also how little time there is on the wall. Our main set this morning was 12 x 200m on 3:15. I always took way more time than that. Every third one was easy and we'd finish between 3:00-3:05 and have essencially no rest. The hard ones were finishing around 2:45, so a bit more rest, but you needed it. I always hung out on the wall a lot more before. I had myself pretty well convinced that as long as I swam hard, I could take as much time as I wanted in between. Running has always been the opposite problem, where I push way harder than I should. |
| 2015-12-01 8:59 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Offseason Marathon a Good Idea or Not? Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by marcag IF, this is a big IF, the goal is to improve your bike I would, -do what Jason says and spread out the bikes -I understand the spin class with the wife is convenient, so that's OK, but lose the other spin class -do at least 2 of the power mentor workouts per week. They should kick your a$$. Use your PM. That with a long bike & 1 spin sounds good -run easy at first. If you survive :-) then consider adding some more work to the run be it tempo, speed, strength.....which could be debated ad-nauseum. - But the reality is if you kick your s$$ on the bike, you probably won't want to do this anyways. Monitor for burn out A six day week would make scheduling workouts a lot easier. I have had the darndest time getting things to space out properly. Taking into account yours and others advice, I put together another itteration. Our kids' swim lessons just got switched to late Saturday mornings (all three moved up a level!) so that nixes the Satruday morning workout with the wife which frees me up to do a long run in the morning then take the kids to their swim lessons while my wife does her long run. It also makes scheduling a bit easier. If you are not doing the marathon and looking at a bike focus, then why are you running nearly 120 mpm? (if you do the optional runs and the long end of your planned runs) If you are going to do a bike focus then do a bike focus. |
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