login
IOC and transgender athletes (Page 2)
-
No new posts
|
 2016-02-03 3:42 PM in reply to: mike761 |
 1731     Denver, Colorado |  Subject: RE: IOC and transgender athletesOriginally posted by mike761 Originally posted by marysia83 From biological anthropology perspective, men are faster than women because of the skeleton. There is some physics involved, but basically, the whole thing with female hip bones designed to hold pregnancy and give a birth unable us to keep up with a different skeletal structure. I can see how this could be the argument in the male-to-female discussion. I believe men also have larger lung capacity then women, this will not change with hormone therapy. So a male on hormone therapy competing as a women still has an advantage right? I cannot speak about hormonal changes, nor the lungs, I know there is an advantage in skeleton. Generally, you know. All things equal, the best guy will be better than the best woman, because of the skeleton. There are still plenty of women faster than some man, for various reasons. But when you look at any race, you will see first few places being taken by male. There could be more things than just physics and bones, but - as far as I was told from anthropology perspective - skeleton plays the role. |
| 2016-02-04 12:59 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| 96 | Subject: RE: IOC and transgender athletes Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by gotbitten one year of hormones just below the what makes you a man level hardly puts you on a fair level with women. what about all the years of extra muscle and extra size that are a result of being a man - it doesnt disappear and suddenly you have a woman's body. you people are putting PC before brains then call everyone idiots. why not do like the athena's and give them their own class? oh thats right, it wouldnt be PC HAHAHAHA!!! I'm probably the least PC person you know. I have references. Dude, Athena's are big women, not transgender men. It's a hard concept I know, maybe find a 10 year old to explain it to you. your references say that you are indeed PC when it serves you and your beliefs. clearly you reading comprehension is severely lacking NOBODY said big women are transgender men. Maybe you should have a 6 year old explain it to you. Athena's have their own division, Clydesdales have their own division, there is no reason transgender men can also have their own division. Likely a four year old can explain it to you that dropping hormones does not a fair competition make. But go ahead, pretend you can't read when you truly have zero argument without resorting to typical Left Brain behavior. YOU are the biggest reason everyone left BT - Left Brian and his worshipping minions are all that are left. |
| 2016-02-04 1:52 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Seattle | Subject: RE: IOC and transgender athletes Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by marysia83 From biological anthropology perspective, men are faster than women because of the skeleton. There is some physics involved, but basically, the whole thing with female hip bones designed to hold pregnancy and give a birth unable us to keep up with a different skeletal structure. I can see how this could be the argument in the male-to-female discussion. I believe men also have larger lung capacity then women, this will not change with hormone therapy. So a male on hormone therapy competing as a women still has an advantage right? I had read up on this a bit too and it sounds as though lung capacity is negligible in terms of advantage. I suppose a lot of what we are talking about is really going to depend on the sport. As marysia83 said, skeleton does come into play a little more, particularly the hips (again as mentioned) but how much? I'm just not sure. And where would the line be drawn? What if a female just so happens to have a bone structure much more similar to a male? Is everyone going to have to do some bone structure scan and a lung capacity test? I would guess that until transgender athletes start dominating that the IOC ICC and IAAF feel there is enough science backing up a pretty level playing field. Edited by Asalzwed 2016-02-04 1:54 PM |
| 2016-02-04 2:04 PM in reply to: gotbitten |
| Seattle | Subject: RE: IOC and transgender athletes Originally posted by gotbitten Originally posted by Left Brain Athena's have their own division, Clydesdales have their own division, there is no reason transgender men can also have their own division. . Originally posted by gotbitten one year of hormones just below the what makes you a man level hardly puts you on a fair level with women. what about all the years of extra muscle and extra size that are a result of being a man - it doesnt disappear and suddenly you have a woman's body. you people are putting PC before brains then call everyone idiots. why not do like the athena's and give them their own class? oh thats right, it wouldnt be PC HAHAHAHA!!! I'm probably the least PC person you know. I have references. Dude, Athena's are big women, not transgender men. It's a hard concept I know, maybe find a 10 year old to explain it to you. Well, we are talking about the IOC which is the International Olympic Committee. When competing at that level, there are no age groups, clydesdale or athena divisions. You got there because you are the best at your sport, because you achieved the Olympic standard and because your country chose you to represent them. |
| 2016-02-04 3:33 PM in reply to: gotbitten |
| 1300 | Subject: RE: IOC and transgender athletes your references say that you are indeed PC when it serves you and your beliefs. clearly you reading comprehension is severely lacking NOBODY said big women are transgender men. Maybe you should have a 6 year old explain it to you. Athena's have their own division, Clydesdales have their own division, there is no reason transgender men can also have their own division. Likely a four year old can explain it to you that dropping hormones does not a fair competition make. But go ahead, pretend you can't read when you truly have zero argument without resorting to typical Left Brain behavior. YOU are the biggest reason everyone left BT - Left Brian and his worshipping minions are all that are left. We are talking about the Olympics here, not age group triathlon. |
| 2016-02-04 3:42 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: IOC and transgender athletes Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano your references say that you are indeed PC when it serves you and your beliefs. clearly you reading comprehension is severely lacking NOBODY said big women are transgender men. Maybe you should have a 6 year old explain it to you. Athena's have their own division, Clydesdales have their own division, there is no reason transgender men can also have their own division. Likely a four year old can explain it to you that dropping hormones does not a fair competition make. But go ahead, pretend you can't read when you truly have zero argument without resorting to typical Left Brain behavior. YOU are the biggest reason everyone left BT - Left Brian and his worshipping minions are all that are left. We are talking about the Olympics here, not age group triathlon. Yes, and the OLYMPIC rules clearly state.....AND THEY HAVE STATED SINCE 2003, that transgender people can compete against/with people of their own gender. The ONLY difference is that now transgender people don't have to have a surgery if they don't want to. NOTHING has changed as far as hormone levels, etc. For 12 years it's been fine, but now the Olympic committee has decided they can't reasonably require someone to have surgery and it's a big deal. It's not a matter of competition.......it's a matter of bias.....PERIOD....no matter how carefully crafted the argument is. Edited by Left Brain 2016-02-04 3:45 PM |
| 2016-02-04 4:47 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| 1300 | Subject: RE: IOC and transgender athletes Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano your references say that you are indeed PC when it serves you and your beliefs. clearly you reading comprehension is severely lacking NOBODY said big women are transgender men. Maybe you should have a 6 year old explain it to you. Athena's have their own division, Clydesdales have their own division, there is no reason transgender men can also have their own division. Likely a four year old can explain it to you that dropping hormones does not a fair competition make. But go ahead, pretend you can't read when you truly have zero argument without resorting to typical Left Brain behavior. YOU are the biggest reason everyone left BT - Left Brian and his worshipping minions are all that are left. We are talking about the Olympics here, not age group triathlon. Yes, and the OLYMPIC rules clearly state.....AND THEY HAVE STATED SINCE 2003, that transgender people can compete against/with people of their own gender. The ONLY difference is that now transgender people don't have to have a surgery if they don't want to. NOTHING has changed as far as hormone levels, etc. For 12 years it's been fine, but now the Olympic committee has decided they can't reasonably require someone to have surgery and it's a big deal. It's not a matter of competition.......it's a matter of bias.....PERIOD....no matter how carefully crafted the argument is. Right and I'm pointing out that there's only M - F in the olympics. Not categories like AG triathlon as he's suggesting so his point doesn't make sense????. |
| 2016-02-04 6:11 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 928 | Subject: RE: IOC and transgender athletes |
| 2016-02-05 10:03 AM in reply to: jennifer_runs |
Veteran 495 Calgary | Subject: RE: IOC and transgender athletes Considering recent rulings I think the question of the universality of testosterone levels as the determining factor is a much bigger issue than gender reassignment surgery. Is it fair for to other women competing against Dutee Chand that she has much higher levels of testosterone? Is it fair to make Dutee Chand take steps to medically reduce high testosterone levels that are the result of a condition she was born with? It gets messy - apparently gender is not binary and it's difficult to come up with a simple rule. http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/runners-experts-concerned... |
| 2016-02-05 10:35 AM in reply to: Asalzwed |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: IOC and transgender athletes Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by marysia83 From biological anthropology perspective, men are faster than women because of the skeleton. There is some physics involved, but basically, the whole thing with female hip bones designed to hold pregnancy and give a birth unable us to keep up with a different skeletal structure. I can see how this could be the argument in the male-to-female discussion. I believe men also have larger lung capacity then women, this will not change with hormone therapy. So a male on hormone therapy competing as a women still has an advantage right? I had read up on this a bit too and it sounds as though lung capacity is negligible in terms of advantage. I suppose a lot of what we are talking about is really going to depend on the sport. As marysia83 said, skeleton does come into play a little more, particularly the hips (again as mentioned) but how much? I'm just not sure. And where would the line be drawn? What if a female just so happens to have a bone structure much more similar to a male? Is everyone going to have to do some bone structure scan and a lung capacity test? I would guess that until transgender athletes start dominating that the IOC ICC and IAAF feel there is enough science backing up a pretty level playing field. My line of thought was just that there are more advantages than just the hormones. Although they may be small it could be enough at the elite level to make a transgender athlete dominate as a woman. If it's any advantage at all, could it be enough to step over the line a fraction of a second ahead of the competition? Not saying right or wrong, just a thought. |
|
|
|
|
| Transgender Ironman Blog Pages: 1 2 | ||
| Anyone interested in a masters athlete / older athlete forum? Pages: 1 2 | ||
| |||
| |||
|
| ||||
|
| |||
|
| |||
|
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK