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2016-02-04 8:28 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Brooklyn, New York
Subject: RE: Cadence question
Originally posted by gsmacleod

Originally posted by TJHammer

Shane, I get a little bouncy in the saddle over 105ish. Where are you advising to incorporate the 120rpm?


There are a few things you can do that may help:

1) Ride fixed - include some short, gradual downhills and get used to spinning faster and faster
2) Spin ups - 2:00 at 100rpm, 1:00 at 110rpm, :30 max spin (without bouncing, low resistance tends to work best)
3) Drop your saddle slightly - bouncing around 105 is often an indication that while you can ride smoothly at 90ish, your saddle might be slightly too high and lowering it a bit can help

For the most part (assuming correct saddle height) it is a coordination issues and spending time spinning at or near your max comfortable cadence will bump this up and help smooth out your stroke at all cadences (notice this is not trying to round your pedal stroke).

Shane


Thx! I do find I'll be a little less bouncy at higher rpm when out on the road vs trainer


2016-02-05 6:50 AM
in reply to: PRHTri

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Subject: RE: Cadence question

Brett Sutton's thoughts from about a year ago.http://trisutto.com/come-in-spinner-the-bike-cadence-debate/

2016-02-05 7:24 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Cadence question
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Brett Sutton's thoughts from about a year ago.http://trisutto.com/come-in-spinner-the-bike-cadence-debate/




The end tip of this article: "So take my tip: If you want to run to the best of your ability off the bike and get the most out of it while you’re on it, then lower cadences will produce for you."

Yeah, but lower cadences at a higher and harder gear so you're actually moving at a competitive time-based pace or not, that wasn't entirely addressed. I mean, yeah, one can have less O2 saturation and lactate at 60 rpm, but at what speed cost? We're talking about racing here aren't we? Coggan's book on Power Meter training analyzes and discusses quadrant analysis (pedal force vs pedal velocity). It references studies that demonstrate that ftp appears to occur at the power-force level where serious fast twitch muscle fiber recruitment occurs when left to self-selected cadence. Coggan even indirectly referes to Sutton's article in a way, since "Quadrant III" is described as a low force, low velocity(cadence) - by technical standards the LEAST fast in terms of race speed. It's more a casual or recovery pace, not a race or hard training pace.

My evolution thus far in cycling is a perfect example because I come from an extensively strong fast twitch muscular strength background (2 decades worth). And I learned from my personal experience that muscular strength does NOT necessarily play an important role in cycling performance; therefore, the high power/force that the muscular strength can apply to the pedals comes at high power but at a cadence to reach high power that can't last that long at all.
It becomes athlete specific to where the highest possible power output AT THE HIGHEST possible cadence before significant decrease in pedal force and increase in lactate and fatigure occurs, is ideal no?
I think the designs of many workouts in Coggan's book help , especially the fatigue profile charts. I also think that rpe and self-awareness is awfully helpful in finding the ideal wattage/cadence combo. There's a distinct feel to fast twitch recruitment vs. steadier slow twitch, the sensations of excessive lactate, etc. I think there's a factor in this

Many more experienced here, but my thoughts and learned experiences thus far. Love to hear

Edited by TJHammer 2016-02-05 7:28 PM
2016-02-06 8:42 AM
in reply to: TJHammer

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Subject: RE: Cadence question

If you want to keep trying to research by such means, that's fine, but think trying to guess what type twitch fibers one has can be very easily misdiagnosed by many. They'll preemptively place artificial constructs on themselves thinking they are "weak", have played more of one sport type or other,  or other things. It tends to work out better to just go out and train. Figure it out there. Develop a wide cadence range that you can handle easily. Then let performance guide you. I know the science in such detail can be fun (I like seeing it too), but generally it's best to limit that to a fun thought exercise.

For a more real world example, through years of cycling, have found I'm better off in the 80's much of the time and my brother has been liking up in the 90's. We have quite similar builds and athletic backgrounds in other sports. I can actually hold higher cadence better than he can, both holding smooth for some time and peaking, though my best output is still down lower so that's where I ride. Going past 100 is still really easy and can be a nice recovery to loosen things back up after a steep and hard hill climb.

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