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2016-02-05 10:08 PM
in reply to: dougie2008

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Subject: RE: Doping
True about pacing and drafting--there are just some people who will do whatever they think they can get away with. That's true in tri as in other areas of life. There are the pace lines of (mostly) guys in most races wherever the officials aren't around. And don't get me started on the number of women I've seen/raced who are being paced/pulled (not sure what the proper word is for someone letting you draft) by husbands or boyfriends on both bike and run. I honestly don't feel like it's ever cost me a podium spot or award, though it's made me work harder (you not only have to pass your rival, but her husband/boyfriend, in some cases multiple times as they pull each other along and yell encouragement to each other) but I've seen it.....up to and including pros.

As for actual doping, no, it doesn't bother me much. If my AG competitors want to risk long-term complications like facial hair, poor bone density, liver malfunction, and cancer, let them. I can't think of anything except maybe saving a loved one's life that I'd be willing to risk my long-term health for. I will be happy with whatever my body will give me with solid training, good nutrition, a daily multivitamin, and coffee.


2016-02-06 1:12 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: Doping
Agreed. I once watched a 68 yr old man blast by me on the bike leg. He just made it look effortless. I don't want to accuse him of anything,I want to track him down and ask him how he's training, and how he's managed to keep his joints in one piece all these years.

After reading this thread, I'm starting to worry that everyone else but me is doing podium finishes or at least getting close : )
2016-02-06 5:33 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner


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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by Hot Runner

True about pacing and drafting--there are just some people who will do whatever they think they can get away with. That's true in tri as in other areas of life. There are the pace lines of (mostly) guys in most races wherever the officials aren't around. And don't get me started on the number of women I've seen/raced who are being paced/pulled (not sure what the proper word is for someone letting you draft) by husbands or boyfriends on both bike and run. I honestly don't feel like it's ever cost me a podium spot or award, though it's made me work harder (you not only have to pass your rival, but her husband/boyfriend, in some cases multiple times as they pull each other along and yell encouragement to each other) but I've seen it.....up to and including pros.

As for actual doping, no, it doesn't bother me much. If my AG competitors want to risk long-term complications like facial hair, poor bone density, liver malfunction, and cancer, let them. I can't think of anything except maybe saving a loved one's life that I'd be willing to risk my long-term health for. I will be happy with whatever my body will give me with solid training, good nutrition, a daily multivitamin, and coffee.


...and coffee. I'm starting to think almost everyone here is hopped up on the C.
2016-02-06 6:15 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by gsmacleod

Originally posted by 3mar

I'm successful now, but it's from hard work and through adversity you will never understand. Don't pretend to know someone.



Intentional irony?

Shane


I don't think you know what irony means. If it's raining outside and someone says, "What a sunny day." that's irony. If there are bunch of people drafting and someone says, "well at least they're playing fair" that'd be irony. So um...yeah....you've got a good grasp on the word irony (see what I did there, I was being ironic AND using the word in its correct definition)


Edited by 3mar 2016-02-06 6:18 PM




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2016-02-06 6:30 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Doping

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by 3mar I'm successful now, but it's from hard work and through adversity you will never understand. Don't pretend to know someone.
Intentional irony? Shane
I don't think you know what irony means. If it's raining outside and someone says, "What a sunny day." that's irony. If there are bunch of people drafting and someone says, "well at least they're playing fair" that'd be irony. So um...yeah....you've got a good grasp on the word irony (see what I did there, I was being ironic AND using the word in its correct definition)

I thought this thread was about low T, not irony deficiency.

2016-02-06 6:42 PM
in reply to: SevenZulu

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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by SevenZulu

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by 3mar I'm successful now, but it's from hard work and through adversity you will never understand. Don't pretend to know someone.
Intentional irony? Shane
I don't think you know what irony means. If it's raining outside and someone says, "What a sunny day." that's irony. If there are bunch of people drafting and someone says, "well at least they're playing fair" that'd be irony. So um...yeah....you've got a good grasp on the word irony (see what I did there, I was being ironic AND using the word in its correct definition)

I thought this thread was about low T, not irony deficiency.




You win the internet. How would you like your name on the trophy?


2016-02-06 6:46 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by 3mar

I don't think you know what irony means. If it's raining outside and someone says, "What a sunny day." that's irony. If there are bunch of people drafting and someone says, "well at least they're playing fair" that'd be irony. So um...yeah....you've got a good grasp on the word irony (see what I did there, I was being ironic AND using the word in its correct definition)



I'll type slowly so you don't miss the point.

You say to someone, "it's from hard work and adversity you will never understand." Now, that can be read two ways; one that the person doesn't understand you and what you've been through or two, that the person you are talking to doesn't understand hard work or had to deal with adversity.

Then you say, "don't pretend to know someone.". Combining the second reading of your first sentence with the second would be ironic.

But thanks for the lesson - delivered sincerely and without malice I'm sure.

Shane

Edited by gsmacleod 2016-02-06 6:50 PM
2016-02-06 6:53 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by gsmacleod

Originally posted by 3mar

I don't think you know what irony means. If it's raining outside and someone says, "What a sunny day." that's irony. If there are bunch of people drafting and someone says, "well at least they're playing fair" that'd be irony. So um...yeah....you've got a good grasp on the word irony (see what I did there, I was being ironic AND using the word in its correct definition)



I'll type slowly so you don't miss the point.

You say to someone, "it's from hard work and adversity you will never understand." Now, that can be read two ways; one that the person doesn't understand you and what you've been through or two, that the person you are talking to doesn't understand hard work or had to deal with adversity.

Then you say, "don't pretend to know someone.". Combining the second reading of your first sentence with the second would be ironic.

But thanks for the lesson - delivered sincerely and without malice I'm sure.

Shane


No…again, "irony" is saying the opposite of what you mean…that's it. There is no other usage of the word. You are looking for the word "coincidental". Or perhaps juxtaposition. But certainly not ironic. For example, in Alanis Morsette's very famous song, where she asks in the verse, "isn't that ironic?" the answer is "no, it's not, that's not what irony means." So the lesson was not received….wait…unless that sentence was meant to be ironic…
2016-02-06 8:15 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Doping

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by SevenZulu

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by 3mar I'm successful now, but it's from hard work and through adversity you will never understand. Don't pretend to know someone.
Intentional irony? Shane
I don't think you know what irony means. If it's raining outside and someone says, "What a sunny day." that's irony. If there are bunch of people drafting and someone says, "well at least they're playing fair" that'd be irony. So um...yeah....you've got a good grasp on the word irony (see what I did there, I was being ironic AND using the word in its correct definition)

I thought this thread was about low T, not irony deficiency.

You win the internet. How would you like your name on the trophy?

I've come close to winning the internet several times before but got beat out each time by people taking designer drugs.  It's gratifying to finally see my persistence pay off.

2016-02-06 10:30 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by 3mar

Originally posted by gsmacleod

Originally posted by 3mar

I don't think you know what irony means. If it's raining outside and someone says, "What a sunny day." that's irony. If there are bunch of people drafting and someone says, "well at least they're playing fair" that'd be irony. So um...yeah....you've got a good grasp on the word irony (see what I did there, I was being ironic AND using the word in its correct definition)



I'll type slowly so you don't miss the point.

You say to someone, "it's from hard work and adversity you will never understand." Now, that can be read two ways; one that the person doesn't understand you and what you've been through or two, that the person you are talking to doesn't understand hard work or had to deal with adversity.

Then you say, "don't pretend to know someone.". Combining the second reading of your first sentence with the second would be ironic.

But thanks for the lesson - delivered sincerely and without malice I'm sure.

Shane


No…again, "irony" is saying the opposite of what you mean…that's it. There is no other usage of the word. You are looking for the word "coincidental". Or perhaps juxtaposition. But certainly not ironic. For example, in Alanis Morsette's very famous song, where she asks in the verse, "isn't that ironic?" the answer is "no, it's not, that's not what irony means." So the lesson was not received….wait…unless that sentence was meant to be ironic…


It'll be .... ironic... when you get it ... from the first post in the thread, to your last post....

Be well, sir. Be well



2016-02-07 6:28 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by 3mar
For example, in Alanis Morsette's very famous song, where she asks in the verse, "isn't that ironic?" the answer is "no, it's not, that's not what irony means."


Irony

from dictinary.com
an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.

I think Alanis nailed it.

An old man turned ninety-eight
He won the lottery and died the next day
It's a black fly in your Chardonnay
It's a death row pardon two minutes too late
And isn't it ironic... don't you think

It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's the good advice that you just didn't take
Who would've thought... it figures

Mr. Play It Safe was afraid to fly
He packed his suitcase and kissed his kids goodbye
He waited his whole damn life to take that flight
And as the plane crashed down he thought
"Well isn't this nice..."
And isn't it ironic... don't you think

It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's the good advice that you just didn't take
Who would've thought... it figures

Well life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
When you think everything's okay and everything's going right
And life has a funny way of helping you out when
You think everything's gone wrong and everything blows up
In your face

A traffic jam when you're already late
A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break
It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife
It's meeting the man of my dreams
And then meeting his beautiful wife
And isn't it ironic...don't you think
A little too ironic...and, yeah, I really do think...

It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's the good advice that you just didn't take
Who would've thought... it figures

Life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
Life has a funny, funny way of helping you out
Helping you out

Edited by marcag 2016-02-07 6:28 AM


2016-02-07 7:12 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by 3mar
For example, in Alanis Morsette's very famous song, where she asks in the verse, "isn't that ironic?" the answer is "no, it's not, that's not what irony means."


Irony

from dictinary.com
an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.

I think Alanis nailed it.

An old man turned ninety-eight
He won the lottery and died the next day
It's a black fly in your Chardonnay
It's a death row pardon two minutes too late
And isn't it ironic... don't you think

It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's the good advice that you just didn't take
Who would've thought... it figures

Mr. Play It Safe was afraid to fly
He packed his suitcase and kissed his kids goodbye
He waited his whole damn life to take that flight
And as the plane crashed down he thought
"Well isn't this nice..."
And isn't it ironic... don't you think

It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's the good advice that you just didn't take
Who would've thought... it figures

Well life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
When you think everything's okay and everything's going right
And life has a funny way of helping you out when
You think everything's gone wrong and everything blows up
In your face

A traffic jam when you're already late
A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break
It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife
It's meeting the man of my dreams
And then meeting his beautiful wife
And isn't it ironic...don't you think
A little too ironic...and, yeah, I really do think...

It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's the good advice that you just didn't take
Who would've thought... it figures

Life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
Life has a funny, funny way of helping you out
Helping you out


From Wikipedia which never has errors.
Henry Watson Fowler, in The King's English, says "any definition of irony—though hundreds might be given, and very few of them would be accepted—must include this, that the surface meaning and the underlying meaning of what is said are not the same." Also, Eric Partridge, in Usage and Abusage, writes that "Irony consists in stating the contrary of what is meant."

Most of the things in this song are just bad luck, not irony.
2016-02-07 7:20 AM
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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by b2run


From Wikipedia which never has errors.
Henry Watson Fowler, in The King's English, says "any definition of irony—though hundreds might be given, and very few of them would be accepted—must include this, that the surface meaning and the underlying meaning of what is said are not the same." Also, Eric Partridge, in Usage and Abusage, writes that "Irony consists in stating the contrary of what is meant."

Most of the things in this song are just bad luck, not irony.


Interesting but Webster trumps Wikipedia
"a situation that is strange or funny because things happen in a way that seems to be the opposite of what you expected"

And everybody knows that French trumps English
Opposition, contraste entre une réalité cruelle, décevante et ce qui pouvait être attendu

so Watson has no say in this :-)


Edited by marcag 2016-02-07 7:22 AM
2016-02-07 8:14 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Doping
Ok, I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong. I screwed up the irony thing. So my apologies. I let myself get pulled into a discussion where it was no longer about the issues but about people, and I should have known better to left that one alone i.e. an insinuation of being "spoiled" and it all sort of went downhill from there.

On this actual issue however, I think one thing that is generally agreed on is that there is a lot of cheating in triathlon from AG up to pros. A LOT. As for the survey, it did distinguish between levels of doping, and therefore the coffee thing was parsed out.

What is troubling to me is this general attitude on here that, if you're an AGer nothing matters. You shouldn't bother yourself with competition because you're just competing against who shows up and therefore your achievements mean nothing, so don't bother yourself with cheaters, nothing you do matters anyway, just look at the elites and pros, so here's a pat on the head. And this sentiment is perpetuated by a few folks on here and everyone else has sort of drank the cool aide.

Here's the thing; in this sport, we're ALL only competing against who shows up, from Crowie and Gomez down to an AGer fighting for 3rd place 50-55. This is a niche sport. It's like downhill skiing. Ok, so you're the best downhill skier in the world, congratulations, you're better than a RANDOM 0.001% of the population to ever put on skis. If, however, skiing was accessible and popular to the other 99.999% of the population, do you think the same people would be winning gold medals? Um…no. Same with triathlon. This isn't football where any kid living in the US or a couple other countries, shows the slightest talent they are able to, and greatly encouraged to grow and explore that gift. Or even more so, soccer where a great majority of the world has access and desire to push any talent to the top. If you're the best soccer player in the world, you can say that likely, yes, you are the best. Not so with sports like curling, skiing, swimming, cycling, triathlon, etc. Everyone here, from pro to AGer is competing against who happens to be there and one accomplishment is not greater than another. And to be upset about cheating in one level does not outweigh another. In sports like this, we're all competing against a RANDOM subset of the population, we're all competing against who happens to show up.

We pay to, and work to, compete against our peers. We should all be REALLY annoyed at those that destroy that competition.
2016-02-07 8:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by 3mar

Ok, I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong. I screwed up the irony thing. So my apologies. I let myself get pulled into a discussion where it was no longer about the issues but about people, and I should have known better to left that one alone i.e. an insinuation of being "spoiled" and it all sort of went downhill from there.

On this actual issue however, I think one thing that is generally agreed on is that there is a lot of cheating in triathlon from AG up to pros. A LOT. As for the survey, it did distinguish between levels of doping, and therefore the coffee thing was parsed out.

What is troubling to me is this general attitude on here that, if you're an AGer nothing matters. You shouldn't bother yourself with competition because you're just competing against who shows up and therefore your achievements mean nothing, so don't bother yourself with cheaters, nothing you do matters anyway, just look at the elites and pros, so here's a pat on the head. And this sentiment is perpetuated by a few folks on here and everyone else has sort of drank the cool aide.

Here's the thing; in this sport, we're ALL only competing against who shows up, from Crowie and Gomez down to an AGer fighting for 3rd place 50-55. This is a niche sport. It's like downhill skiing. Ok, so you're the best downhill skier in the world, congratulations, you're better than a RANDOM 0.001% of the population to ever put on skis. If, however, skiing was accessible and popular to the other 99.999% of the population, do you think the same people would be winning gold medals? Um…no. Same with triathlon. This isn't football where any kid living in the US or a couple other countries, shows the slightest talent they are able to, and greatly encouraged to grow and explore that gift. Or even more so, soccer where a great majority of the world has access and desire to push any talent to the top. If you're the best soccer player in the world, you can say that likely, yes, you are the best. Not so with sports like curling, skiing, swimming, cycling, triathlon, etc. Everyone here, from pro to AGer is competing against who happens to be there and one accomplishment is not greater than another. And to be upset about cheating in one level does not outweigh another. In sports like this, we're all competing against a RANDOM subset of the population, we're all competing against who happens to show up.

We pay to, and work to, compete against our peers. We should all be REALLY annoyed at those that destroy that competition.




I don't know about you, but when I was swimming way back when, yes, coming 2nd was better than 3rd and 1st was the best, but that's not what we looked at. We looked at incremental improvement. A PB...And we measured success and progress that way

In running, you can aspire to a BQ. What the guy next to you does has less meaning

But the nature of courses and weather in triathlon don't allow that. So if you want to measure improvement and getting better you can go by placing in races or by other metrics. For me, "other metrics" are more real. There is a whole possible debate on whether you want to be a big fish in a small pond, or a small fish in a big pond.

As for the people that denigrate AG racing, hey, that is a normal human reaction when you are incapable of doing something yourself. The people that are affected by cheaters care.

I personally think you are using the wrong metric for measuring your progress. Measure yourself against yourself and it is inevitable that those improvements will be reflected in your AG rankings with time. Not 100% of the time, but most of the time.

That 1st place with lesser metrics against 8th place with better metrics example I gave was a real life experience.




Edited by marcag 2016-02-07 8:58 AM
2016-02-07 8:58 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by 3mar

Ok, I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong. I screwed up the irony thing. So my apologies. I let myself get pulled into a discussion where it was no longer about the issues but about people, and I should have known better to left that one alone i.e. an insinuation of being "spoiled" and it all sort of went downhill from there.

On this actual issue however, I think one thing that is generally agreed on is that there is a lot of cheating in triathlon from AG up to pros. A LOT. As for the survey, it did distinguish between levels of doping, and therefore the coffee thing was parsed out.

What is troubling to me is this general attitude on here that, if you're an AGer nothing matters. You shouldn't bother yourself with competition because you're just competing against who shows up and therefore your achievements mean nothing, so don't bother yourself with cheaters, nothing you do matters anyway, just look at the elites and pros, so here's a pat on the head. And this sentiment is perpetuated by a few folks on here and everyone else has sort of drank the cool aide.

Here's the thing; in this sport, we're ALL only competing against who shows up, from Crowie and Gomez down to an AGer fighting for 3rd place 50-55. This is a niche sport. It's like downhill skiing. Ok, so you're the best downhill skier in the world, congratulations, you're better than a RANDOM 0.001% of the population to ever put on skis. If, however, skiing was accessible and popular to the other 99.999% of the population, do you think the same people would be winning gold medals? Um…no. Same with triathlon. This isn't football where any kid living in the US or a couple other countries, shows the slightest talent they are able to, and greatly encouraged to grow and explore that gift. Or even more so, soccer where a great majority of the world has access and desire to push any talent to the top. If you're the best soccer player in the world, you can say that likely, yes, you are the best. Not so with sports like curling, skiing, swimming, cycling, triathlon, etc. Everyone here, from pro to AGer is competing against who happens to be there and one accomplishment is not greater than another. And to be upset about cheating in one level does not outweigh another. In sports like this, we're all competing against a RANDOM subset of the population, we're all competing against who happens to show up.

We pay to, and work to, compete against our peers. We should all be REALLY annoyed at those that destroy that competition.




I don't know about you, but when I was swimming way back when, yes, coming 2nd was better than 3rd and 1st was the best, but that's not what we looked at. We looked at incremental improvement. A PB...And we measured success and progress that way

In running, you can aspire to a BQ. What the guy next to you does has less meaning

But the nature of courses and weather in triathlon don't allow that. So if you want to measure improvement and getting better you can go by placing in races or by other metrics. For me, "other metrics" are more real. There is a whole possible debate on whether you want to be a big fish in a small pond, or a small fish in a big pond.

As for the people that denigrate AG racing, hey, that is a normal human reaction when you are incapable of doing something yourself. The people that are affected by cheaters care.







It is my understanding that due to the popularity of Boston, that it is now turning Kona-like, as in the qualifying times are not enough and you have to be the top X number in your age group to get in because more than the allotted people are hitting the times. That's just an interesting aside though, and I personally prefer the competition amungst peers to a standard qualification time.

For me personally, I enjoy the competition. As I noted, for this and a lot of other sports, we will never know what the actual top level is, so we're all in this together. It doesn't have to top level competition or it means nothing. It's about beating the other people out on the course that day. Of course I want to improve and there are a lot of metrics (VO2 Max, FTP, mile time, 40k time, etc) to judge that, but nothing compares to a race. Going out there and doing all three sports with a bunch of poeple on the same course. All variables are out, we're all out there together. It's the thrill and adreniline rush of competing against another person. Of seeing someone up a head and running them down.


2016-02-07 9:13 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by 3mar

For me personally, I enjoy the competition. As I noted, for this and a lot of other sports, we will never know what the actual top level is, so we're all in this together. It doesn't have to top level competition or it means nothing. It's about beating the other people out on the course that day. Of course I want to improve and there are a lot of metrics (VO2 Max, FTP, mile time, 40k time, etc) to judge that, but nothing compares to a race. Going out there and doing all three sports with a bunch of poeple on the same course. All variables are out, we're all out there together. It's the thrill and adreniline rush of competing against another person. Of seeing someone up a head and running them down.


yes and no

The example I gave previously. I won my AG at IM Muskoka 70.3. I came off the bike thinking I was 2nd, but in fact it was a guy that didn't finish the swim that left his bike on the rack. I chased a ghost for the run. It pushed me beyond my limits and I was very happy. Yes, racing was an adrenalin rush. Had I been only chasing a wattage and run time, I probably would not have pushed as hard.

Next year, I swam 2min faster, bike more watts and ran faster. I ran almost to a state on non consciousness because 2 friends were on the course and I wanted to beat them. Again I was pushed, beat my friends, did much better metrics but placed 8th in my AG. Another IM brand 70.3 event, so ponds of similar size but bigger fish showed up.

I am much prouder of that 2nd performance. Ya I'm proud of that 1st place trophy, but I'd take that 8th place performance any day of the week. Because it was a better performance from a metrics point of view and racing with heart.

I know several of the 7 guys that beat me that day. They are huge volume, Kona Qualifiers, one is a 5x Ultraman world championship podium finisher. While I know he is a clean athlete I would not be the least bit surprised if one of the other 6 had done things. I don't know, I don't care. BUT even if they have, they also train a $hit load and I'm sure would beat me anyways.

2016-02-07 9:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by 3mar

No…again, "irony" is saying the opposite of what you mean…that's it. There is no other usage of the word. You are looking for the word "coincidental". Or perhaps juxtaposition. But certainly not ironic. For example, in Alanis Morsette's very famous song, where she asks in the verse, "isn't that ironic?" the answer is "no, it's not, that's not what irony means." So the lesson was not received….wait…unless that sentence was meant to be ironic…


NM - just read the rest of the thread and saw that you realized you were incorrect.

Shane

Edited by gsmacleod 2016-02-07 9:49 AM
2016-02-07 11:56 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Doping
At the end of the day, the only thing you can control during a race is yourself. Outside race day, if you want to start gathering support / organization / money and make occasional random ag testing a real thing, I'm all for it. But that's a time commitment that will take someone a lot of effort.
2016-02-07 12:08 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Doping
Maybe they should make a separate category for dopers.
2016-02-07 7:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Doping
I don't care what category you race, you don't like to race against cheaters!


2016-02-07 8:53 PM
in reply to: NJBIll

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Master
3888
20001000500100100100252525
Overland Park, KS
Subject: RE: Doping
This guy thinks you're all on dope...



(Mr Hand.jpg)



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2016-02-07 10:47 PM
in reply to: reecealan

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Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Doping

After 3 days of watching swimming in a chlorine gas cloud, you all make even less sense then you did on Thursday.

2016-02-08 7:14 AM
in reply to: 0

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Member
1748
100050010010025
Exton, PA
Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by b2run

Maybe they should make a separate category for dopers.


Like body building; they could natural triathletes, and dopey triathletes!

Edited by mike761 2016-02-08 7:14 AM
2016-02-08 12:15 PM
in reply to: mike761


319
100100100
Sarasota, Florida
Subject: RE: Doping
Originally posted by mike761

Originally posted by b2run

Maybe they should make a separate category for dopers.


Like body building; they could natural triathletes, and dopey triathletes!


Hey, doping is just doing until you give it a p sample. Maybe we should be less judgmental here.
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