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2016-02-06 9:44 PM

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Subject: N.H. GOP Debate
Best performance: A tie between Christie and Kasich.
Christie owned Rubio early on.
The GOP establishment seems to be trying to rally behind Rubio. He had a consistent clapper and whistler set up to amplify Rubio's robotic elevation in voice that he uses to try and show passion, but it comes off as contrived (similar to Hillary ironically enough).

Trump was lacking substance once again, but did make a great point about the stacking of the audience with donors aka special interests.

Cruz, oh Ted, loved him bringing up February 20 (the date of the Carolina primary) when asked about the Super Bowl. He can't help himself. Also, terrible dodge attempt with his stealing of Carson votes in Iowa.


2016-02-07 8:56 AM
in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

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Subject: RE: N.H. GOP Debate
My 16 year old daughter watched the entire debate. Im proud that she's showing interest in politics and I will encourage her to watch the Democrats too. I want her to be an informed voter, no matter which way she ultimately 'leans.'

I tried to watch some of it and was pretty disgusted with what was advertised as being a debate. The moderators seemed to be more interested in letting the candidates get in destructive pizzing matches than in a constructive debate. I saw an event that Stephanopolis carefully orchestrated and controlled to do as much damage as possible to the candidates on his list. My daughter called me in to watch the Rubio/Christe 'neener-neener' portion of the show. I'm surprised Martha didn't ask the boyz to drop trou and see who could pizz the greatest distance. And why were Christie and Bush there, but not Fiorina? All three are polling in the toilet , yet Fiorina was somehow not let in. And yes, Trump did point out that the event was also being stacked by the GOP establishment. The whole party is in shiitstate and the entire debate seemed be shaped to showcase that fact.

Like I mentioned earlier, I didn't watch the entire show, but I was disgusted with what I saw. The GOP needs to pull their heads out of their collective backsides and get behind the candidates that the PEOPLE are behind. More importantly, they need to make an effort to protect the three front runners. From themselves and the media!

The republican party is a breath away from splintering and creating a third party. This happens and they lose everything. They need to listen to polling and what America wants and not what Karl Rove wants for the GOP. They need to drop the idea that there can be a bi-partisan kumbaya effort in American politics and concentrate on driving the Democrat party into the dirt. The Democrats are doing this with great success and their constituents are OK with it. I think the republicans would find that their voters would be in favor of the same as well.

Let's drop the archaic stance on social issues and move forward into the current century before it's too late. I think they gain more voters than they'd lose by doing so. Look at the new Pope. Are Catholics bailing and running for the hills because of his liberal ( by established church standards ) ideology? Nope. I think the religious right would stay with the Repubs if they were to get behind and encourage social reforms such as nationwide gay marriage and dropping the abortion debate once and for all. It's time to put on big boy pants and change before the Democrats, for better or worse, get it all.
2016-02-07 10:40 AM
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Subject: RE: N.H. GOP Debate
The Rs would absolutely lose a percentage of the Evangelical vote if they abandoned the threes Gs: Gays, God and Guns.

What evidence do you have that the Ds are running themselves into the dirt (as in not relevant). Or maybe I don't get what you are meaning with that line?

Edited by ejshowers 2016-02-07 10:40 AM
2016-02-07 11:32 AM
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Subject: RE: N.H. GOP Debate
Originally posted by ejshowers

The Rs would absolutely lose a percentage of the Evangelical vote if they abandoned the threes Gs: Gays, God and Guns.

What evidence do you have that the Ds are running themselves into the dirt (as in not relevant). Or maybe I don't get what you are meaning with that line?

No, he's saying that the GOP needs to abandon all pretense of trying to work with the Democrats and instead take a scorched earth take no prisoners approach, which he believes is what the democrats have been doing.

They would certainly lose some evangelicals if they move forward on social issues, but I think they'd gain more young and moderate voters in the process. I think it would be a net win for them.

Edited by jmk-brooklyn 2016-02-07 11:40 AM
2016-02-07 12:02 PM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: N.H. GOP Debate
Originally posted by mdg2003

My 16 year old daughter watched the entire debate. Im proud that she's showing interest in politics and I will encourage her to watch the Democrats too. I want her to be an informed voter, no matter which way she ultimately 'leans.'

I tried to watch some of it and was pretty disgusted with what was advertised as being a debate. The moderators seemed to be more interested in letting the candidates get in destructive pizzing matches than in a constructive debate. I saw an event that Stephanopolis carefully orchestrated and controlled to do as much damage as possible to the candidates on his list. My daughter called me in to watch the Rubio/Christe 'neener-neener' portion of the show. I'm surprised Martha didn't ask the boyz to drop trou and see who could pizz the greatest distance. And why were Christie and Bush there, but not Fiorina? All three are polling in the toilet , yet Fiorina was somehow not let in. And yes, Trump did point out that the event was also being stacked by the GOP establishment. The whole party is in shiitstate and the entire debate seemed be shaped to showcase that fact.

Like I mentioned earlier, I didn't watch the entire show, but I was disgusted with what I saw. The GOP needs to pull their heads out of their collective backsides and get behind the candidates that the PEOPLE are behind. More importantly, they need to make an effort to protect the three front runners. From themselves and the media!

The republican party is a breath away from splintering and creating a third party. This happens and they lose everything. They need to listen to polling and what America wants and not what Karl Rove wants for the GOP. They need to drop the idea that there can be a bi-partisan kumbaya effort in American politics and concentrate on driving the Democrat party into the dirt. The Democrats are doing this with great success and their constituents are OK with it. I think the republicans would find that their voters would be in favor of the same as well.

Let's drop the archaic stance on social issues and move forward into the current century before it's too late. I think they gain more voters than they'd lose by doing so. Look at the new Pope. Are Catholics bailing and running for the hills because of his liberal ( by established church standards ) ideology? Nope. I think the religious right would stay with the Repubs if they were to get behind and encourage social reforms such as nationwide gay marriage and dropping the abortion debate once and for all. It's time to put on big boy pants and change before the Democrats, for better or worse, get it all.


I watched the entire debate and was actually impressed with Raddatz and Muir. My wife and I are not fans of Muir, but in the end, we thought the moderators did an effective job. The author/columnist Katharine... was visibly nervous to start off, but got a little more comfortable. I take it she's the Republican voice on ABC News? Not sure, but it sounded that way.
The rule that allowed candidates mentioned in the previous candidate's time, 30 seconds to respond, stimulated debate and provided an added bit of strategy. It was fun to actually see candidates allowed to respond to someone calling them out. I've seen debates before where the candidate wants to respond, but is cut off by the moderator, and nobody gets anywhere. The 30-second rule also made a candidate think twice about mentioning a candidate they'd prefer NOT have extra time to speak.

While I don't agree with Republicans on most issues, I say kudos to Chris Christie for actually saying what he means and meaning what he says. Yes, more than 2/3rds of the American public (including me) is in favor of raising taxes on Americans earning over a million dollars per year. But, Christie stated his position clearly and unequivocally. He didn't tap-dance around the question. I respect that. He didn't pull a Cruz who took ZERO ownership of the "stealing Carson votes in Iowa," (blamed it on CNN), and he didn't pull a Rubio who totally didn't answer the Gang of 8 Immigration question and then in as tone-deaf a manner as possible devolved into his anti-Obama rhetoric that had nothing to do with the question asked.

And more kudos to Trump for calling out the GOP on stacking the auditorium with big donors.

Kudos to Carson (I can't believe I just said that) for injecting some truly funny lines into the night's program. Do I agree with him on 99% of issues? No. But, is he genuine? Yes.

Fun night.




2016-02-07 1:34 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: N.H. GOP Debate
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by ejshowers

The Rs would absolutely lose a percentage of the Evangelical vote if they abandoned the threes Gs: Gays, God and Guns.

What evidence do you have that the Ds are running themselves into the dirt (as in not relevant). Or maybe I don't get what you are meaning with that line?

No, he's saying that the GOP needs to abandon all pretense of trying to work with the Democrats and instead take a scorched earth take no prisoners approach, which he believes is what the democrats have been doing.

They would certainly lose some evangelicals if they move forward on social issues, but I think they'd gain more young and moderate voters in the process. I think it would be a net win for them.


Got it now. Thanks for the clarification.


2016-02-07 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: N.H. GOP Debate
Originally posted by ejshowers

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by ejshowers

The Rs would absolutely lose a percentage of the Evangelical vote if they abandoned the threes Gs: Gays, God and Guns.

What evidence do you have that the Ds are running themselves into the dirt (as in not relevant). Or maybe I don't get what you are meaning with that line?

No, he's saying that the GOP needs to abandon all pretense of trying to work with the Democrats and instead take a scorched earth take no prisoners approach, which he believes is what the democrats have been doing.

They would certainly lose some evangelicals if they move forward on social issues, but I think they'd gain more young and moderate voters in the process. I think it would be a net win for them.


Got it now. Thanks for the clarification.


The democrats are driving the republicans into the dirt. The republicans need to return the favor was what I meant.

I don't see the Democrats giving much ground on anything and kudos for them. They're doing pretty much what their constituents voted them into office for, what they campaigned for or against and they've been pretty effective. There's not been an awful lot of bipartisanship on their behalf since Nance took the speaker job. Now that they've lost majority in House and Senate, we see obama putting the veto to everything crossing his desk. I'm not nitpicking obama or the Democrat party when I say this either. They have their shiite together and they have a game plan, which they are executing to the best of their ability. The Gang Of Pu**ies on the other and are going in circles. They have a bunch of wussies in charge and are getting their agenda crammed up their backsides because they are going at it too soft. They need to eject McConnell and Ryan and start over. Put someone in there with enough spine to take the heat and criticism when they do something the MSM and democrats don't like.

Legalize weed and online gaming while they're at it too.

Edited by mdg2003 2016-02-07 2:13 PM
2016-02-08 2:28 PM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: N.H. GOP Debate
Originally posted by mdg2003

Originally posted by ejshowers

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by ejshowers

The Rs would absolutely lose a percentage of the Evangelical vote if they abandoned the threes Gs: Gays, God and Guns.

What evidence do you have that the Ds are running themselves into the dirt (as in not relevant). Or maybe I don't get what you are meaning with that line?

No, he's saying that the GOP needs to abandon all pretense of trying to work with the Democrats and instead take a scorched earth take no prisoners approach, which he believes is what the democrats have been doing.

They would certainly lose some evangelicals if they move forward on social issues, but I think they'd gain more young and moderate voters in the process. I think it would be a net win for them.


Got it now. Thanks for the clarification.


The democrats are driving the republicans into the dirt. The republicans need to return the favor was what I meant.

I don't see the Democrats giving much ground on anything and kudos for them. They're doing pretty much what their constituents voted them into office for, what they campaigned for or against and they've been pretty effective. There's not been an awful lot of bipartisanship on their behalf since Nance took the speaker job. Now that they've lost majority in House and Senate, we see obama putting the veto to everything crossing his desk. I'm not nitpicking obama or the Democrat party when I say this either. They have their shiite together and they have a game plan, which they are executing to the best of their ability. The Gang Of Pu**ies on the other and are going in circles. They have a bunch of wussies in charge and are getting their agenda crammed up their backsides because they are going at it too soft. They need to eject McConnell and Ryan and start over. Put someone in there with enough spine to take the heat and criticism when they do something the MSM and democrats don't like.

Legalize weed and online gaming while they're at it too.


It's interesting-- from where I sit, the GOP has been completely obstinate and totally unwilling to compromise at all from the moment Obama took office. I think going back to the GOP congressman shouting "You lie!" at the POTUS during a session to all of the statistics about this particular house being the least functional and most obstructive in history in terms of actual legislation passed, I have almost the completely opposite view.

I think you're right that the GOP is fractured within itself and there's a huge battle for the soul of the party, and the Democrats, who are generally much more closely aligned in their core beliefs, are taking advantage. There are certainly Trump supporters who could never in a million years vote for Cruz. And while there are certainly Sanders supporters who wouldn't be happy about having to vote for Hillary, almost all of them would agree that she's a MUCH better choice, based on their core ideology, than anyone on the GOP side.
2016-02-08 3:42 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: N.H. GOP Debate
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by mdg2003

Originally posted by ejshowers

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by ejshowers

The Rs would absolutely lose a percentage of the Evangelical vote if they abandoned the threes Gs: Gays, God and Guns.

What evidence do you have that the Ds are running themselves into the dirt (as in not relevant). Or maybe I don't get what you are meaning with that line?

No, he's saying that the GOP needs to abandon all pretense of trying to work with the Democrats and instead take a scorched earth take no prisoners approach, which he believes is what the democrats have been doing.

They would certainly lose some evangelicals if they move forward on social issues, but I think they'd gain more young and moderate voters in the process. I think it would be a net win for them.


Got it now. Thanks for the clarification.


The democrats are driving the republicans into the dirt. The republicans need to return the favor was what I meant.

I don't see the Democrats giving much ground on anything and kudos for them. They're doing pretty much what their constituents voted them into office for, what they campaigned for or against and they've been pretty effective. There's not been an awful lot of bipartisanship on their behalf since Nance took the speaker job. Now that they've lost majority in House and Senate, we see obama putting the veto to everything crossing his desk. I'm not nitpicking obama or the Democrat party when I say this either. They have their shiite together and they have a game plan, which they are executing to the best of their ability. The Gang Of Pu**ies on the other and are going in circles. They have a bunch of wussies in charge and are getting their agenda crammed up their backsides because they are going at it too soft. They need to eject McConnell and Ryan and start over. Put someone in there with enough spine to take the heat and criticism when they do something the MSM and democrats don't like.

Legalize weed and online gaming while they're at it too.


It's interesting-- from where I sit, the GOP has been completely obstinate and totally unwilling to compromise at all from the moment Obama took office. I think going back to the GOP congressman shouting "You lie!" at the POTUS during a session to all of the statistics about this particular house being the least functional and most obstructive in history in terms of actual legislation passed, I have almost the completely opposite view.

I think you're right that the GOP is fractured within itself and there's a huge battle for the soul of the party, and the Democrats, who are generally much more closely aligned in their core beliefs, are taking advantage. There are certainly Trump supporters who could never in a million years vote for Cruz. And while there are certainly Sanders supporters who wouldn't be happy about having to vote for Hillary, almost all of them would agree that she's a MUCH better choice, based on their core ideology, than anyone on the GOP side.



^Exactly.
Rubio claims Obama "knows what he's doing," (and Rubio repeated this 4 times despite the fact it had nothing to do with the question he was supposedly answering) Trump and several others disagreed.

For the past few years, the attacks on Obama haven't been very effective. Why? My theory is that the GOP utilized the "throw everything but the kitchen sink at him and see what sticks!" approach. Everything from questioning his citizenship, his religion, his toughness, etc. They never established a reliable and consistent message. Every even day a Fox News ticker scrolled messages that portrayed Obama as weak and ineffective...every odd day the messages would label him a Chicago-Machine style tough guy ramming his liberal agenda down everyone's throats. Perhaps if the president had a different personality (prone to anger, unpredictable, etc.) the schizoid narrative could have worked...but it hasn't.

Just based on what I've seen in my time here on Earth, mixed messages don't rally a base. Mixed messages don't get out the vote. Mixed messages make you look confused. Which is what the GOP is right now.
mdg2003, I agree with you that social issues are just killing the GOP.
Your analogy using the Pope was spot-on.

Coming out of this debate, while I am still a likely Clinton voter, I would not be worried for my country if Kasich or Christie carried the vote come November. In fact, if Sanders won the Dem. nom., based on the fact I think he's too extreme, I'd go with Kasich or Christie. If it's Sanders vs. Rubio, ugh. just my opinion.



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