General Discussion Triathlon Talk » high cadence Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2016-02-09 10:54 AM


439
10010010010025
nashville, Tennessee
Subject: high cadence
Training with trainerroad they focus alot on trying to increase your cadence. So I know a higher cadence is supposedly more efficient. I do all my training in ERG mode so I don't have to switch gears. But I find when I increase my cadence it seems harder. Is this normal and something that you just have to practice? Have any of you actually noticed a benefit from intentionally working towards a higher cadence. My natural feeling cadence is probably 75-80.


2016-02-09 11:10 AM
in reply to: mchadcota2

User image

Subject: RE: high cadence

Cadence is highly individual.  There is a benefit to "expanding your toolbox" by training at cadences outside your comfort zone, but it is generally wrong to make a blanket statement that X cadence is best or more efficient for everyone.

If you spend enough time training at various cadences, your body is smart enough to know which one is working best for you...and the message to your fingers whether to shift gears or not should happen without you ever knowing what your cadence number actually is.

2016-02-09 11:31 AM
in reply to: mchadcota2

User image

Extreme Veteran
5722
5000500100100
Subject: RE: high cadence
Originally posted by mchadcota2
My natural feeling cadence is probably 75-80.


Even when doing an FTP test ?
2016-02-09 1:29 PM
in reply to: mchadcota2

User image

Expert
2547
200050025
The Woodlands, TX
Subject: RE: high cadence

Originally posted by mchadcota2 Training with trainerroad they focus alot on trying to increase your cadence. So I know a higher cadence is supposedly more efficient. I do all my training in ERG mode so I don't have to switch gears. But I find when I increase my cadence it seems harder. Is this normal and something that you just have to practice? Have any of you actually noticed a benefit from intentionally working towards a higher cadence. My natural feeling cadence is probably 75-80.

 

This is the old 'moving bricks' analogy. 2 people, 2 piles of bricks. Guy 1 moves 10 bricks at a time, which is a big load on his arms and is slower to move, but takes fewer trips. Guy 2 moves 2 bricks at a time, which he moves much faster but takes many more trips. They are both the best technique. Guy 1 relies on more muscle strength and Guy 2 relies on his cardio. Similar to cadence. You have a slower cadence so you are relying more on muscle strength to get the job done. Someone rolling at 95 rpms is taking the load off the legs and relying on their heart to get it done. Both work. The only thing I would add is that at greater fitness and higher speeds (when you are pushing all out to break away or bridge a paceline gap check your cadence) that higher cadence prevails.

2016-02-09 1:43 PM
in reply to: tjfry

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: high cadence

Everything written above is on the money......but there IS value is spending some time each day spinning as fast as you can.  Go to your easiest gear and see how many RPM's you can get to before you start bouncing all over the place.  Work on increasing that number for a few minutes each day.....it will make you a better overall cyclist as it increases.

2016-02-09 1:45 PM
in reply to: mchadcota2

User image


360
1001001002525
Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: high cadence
Trainerroad has drills where you practice different cadences - as mentioned, it's good to have a toolbox and be able to grind away at 65rpm or spin away at 125rpm - it makes you a more versatile rider. Two things about higher cadences though:
1) Pedalling at higher cadences can be helpful to your form, making you more efficient at lower, more natural cadences
2) In triathlon, higher cadences may help you save your leg muscles for the run


2016-02-09 1:52 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Extreme Veteran
1332
100010010010025
Subject: RE: high cadence
Originally posted by Left Brain

Everything written above is on the money......but there IS value is spending some time each day spinning as fast as you can.  Go to your easiest gear and see how many RPM's you can get to before you start bouncing all over the place.  Work on increasing that number for a few minutes each day.....it will make you a better overall cyclist as it increases.




^this

Optimal Cadence is varied, but unless you develop your cadence to have a wider range, how will you know for sure you're hitting an optimal cadence for you?

Also, I've found it changes based on effort level too. On a 10 mile all out time trial, I've sometimes done best at around 100 rpm, whereas a lower effort where I'll be going several hours, I tend to fall closer to 80 for optimal cadence.

Where my power/cadence balance falls changes based on effort level, as at a certain point just applying more force gets a higher diminishing return than increasing cadence will, at least that's the way I see it.
2016-02-09 6:06 PM
in reply to: dfquigley

User image

Expert
2547
200050025
The Woodlands, TX
Subject: RE: high cadence

Originally posted by dfquigley
Originally posted by Left Brain

Everything written above is on the money......but there IS value is spending some time each day spinning as fast as you can.  Go to your easiest gear and see how many RPM's you can get to before you start bouncing all over the place.  Work on increasing that number for a few minutes each day.....it will make you a better overall cyclist as it increases.

^this Optimal Cadence is varied, but unless you develop your cadence to have a wider range, how will you know for sure you're hitting an optimal cadence for you? Also, I've found it changes based on effort level too. On a 10 mile all out time trial, I've sometimes done best at around 100 rpm, whereas a lower effort where I'll be going several hours, I tend to fall closer to 80 for optimal cadence. Where my power/cadence balance falls changes based on effort level, as at a certain point just applying more force gets a higher diminishing return than increasing cadence will, at least that's the way I see it.

 

Agree. Despite what the internet loves to yell, there IS technique in cycling. Just like a hula hoop, coordinating the muscles to fire in a precise progression takes work and time. high cadence riding, one leg drills, rollers, etc all have great value.

2016-02-09 8:34 PM
in reply to: tjfry

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: high cadence

Originally posted by tjfry

Originally posted by dfquigley
Originally posted by Left Brain

Everything written above is on the money......but there IS value is spending some time each day spinning as fast as you can.  Go to your easiest gear and see how many RPM's you can get to before you start bouncing all over the place.  Work on increasing that number for a few minutes each day.....it will make you a better overall cyclist as it increases.

^this Optimal Cadence is varied, but unless you develop your cadence to have a wider range, how will you know for sure you're hitting an optimal cadence for you? Also, I've found it changes based on effort level too. On a 10 mile all out time trial, I've sometimes done best at around 100 rpm, whereas a lower effort where I'll be going several hours, I tend to fall closer to 80 for optimal cadence. Where my power/cadence balance falls changes based on effort level, as at a certain point just applying more force gets a higher diminishing return than increasing cadence will, at least that's the way I see it.

 Agree. Despite what the internet loves to yell, there IS technique in cycling. Just like a hula hoop, coordinating the muscles to fire in a precise progression takes work and time. high cadence riding, one leg drills, rollers, etc all have great value.

Think some of it may get caught up in descriptive semantics and settling down some triathletes who can get a little extremist. I mean the mindset of if something is good, then more of it is better. But then regularly going through entire sessions doing drills of some sort isn't really productive. Get the effort level where it should be for the workout, then if one is so inclined, add in little bits of this other work within that. One of the things with cycling is that the pathway is fixed, so it's really fairly simple and doesn't really need the same attention that the others do. There still are benefits from it, just no need to go crazy with it. Pedaling fast and/or riding rollers can really take care of a lot with this.

And to say it again with the others, none of this says that average cadence really needs to go anywhere. Just smoothing things out for the touch of efficiency and getting the coordination down so that it's not limiting. Think we did have an example of that in another recent thread. Best power came at at a little higher cadence than was truly comfortable maintaining. One that hasn't come up is that I've had better saddle comfort when I do enough to stay smooth at fast cadences. I'll still tend to average in the 80's most of the time, but can stay smooth for some time up past 120. Maybe well past 120 depending how much I work at it.

2016-02-09 10:05 PM
in reply to: mchadcota2

User image

Champion
19812
50005000500020002000500100100100
MA
Subject: RE: high cadence

If you have a power meter and can try riding same power at difference cadence and you can see how it effects your HR. For me riding with higher cadence raises my HR. Over my tri career I have focused on cadence and changed what I did. There was a time that most of my time trials and shorter races my cadence was in the 95-100 range. Later in my career I did more low cadence work which I found easier to do as my HR is lower for same power for IM distance focus.

 

2016-02-09 11:53 PM
in reply to: KathyG

User image

Extreme Veteran
1332
100010010010025
Subject: RE: high cadence
Originally posted by KathyG

If you have a power meter and can try riding same power at difference cadence and you can see how it effects your HR. For me riding with higher cadence raises my HR. Over my tri career I have focused on cadence and changed what I did. There was a time that most of my time trials and shorter races my cadence was in the 95-100 range. Later in my career I did more low cadence work which I found easier to do as my HR is lower for same power for IM distance focus.

 




This is one of the ways I have tried to see what works best for me, sitting on the trainer, holding the same power, changing the cadence as I shift gears and seeing how my perceived effort and heart rate change. It's a more controlled environment than out on the road, but sometimes even mid time-trial, I will be at a pretty maximal effort, and changing gears can get me another 0.2 or 0.3 km/h at the same perceived effort, and the heart rate is staying pretty constant, I'll take it!

I used to do a little more focused cadence work, but now that I've already developed the range, I don't really do that much. After some time off the bike though, right away I will find it a bit harder to hit a 90 cadence at the top of zone 2, but it doesn't take long for it to come back.

One legged drills I don't do much of, but do them once in a while just to make sure my legs are fairly similar in ability, as I have multiple injuries on my non-dominant leg, and do a bit extra strength training to keep them as balanced as I can.


New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » high cadence Rss Feed  
RELATED POSTS

Highest cadence you've seen Pages: 1 2

Started by PirateGirl
Views: 1883 Posts: 30

2008-05-09 3:19 AM ForrestGump

Higher cadence cycling question

Started by danielle860
Views: 1338 Posts: 22

2006-05-22 3:38 AM AdventureBear

high cadence = high heart rate

Started by 3aces
Views: 3566 Posts: 9

2005-11-20 12:54 PM 3aces

running at high cadence and back pain....

Started by Octane
Views: 451 Posts: 1

2005-04-27 9:41 AM Octane

Higher cadence versus higher gear Pages: 1 2

Started by huskyboy
Views: 2688 Posts: 40

2005-03-03 7:53 AM Deb_B
RELATED ARTICLES
date : February 16, 2011
author : FitWerx
comments : 2
Road cyclists tend to have a higher cadence than triathletes. Why is this? Is it bad?
 
date : February 22, 2010
author : Coach AJ
comments : 0
Discussions on using the weekends for a long bike and run, good running cadence, Ironman swimming, importance of kick drills and swim cadence.
date : January 16, 2008
comments : 4
This article outlines ways to increase your running cadence while also getting the benefits of reduced injury.
 
date : October 2, 2006
author : mikericci
comments : 9
Studies have shown a correlation between pedaling at a high cadence and running at a high cadence, which leads to faster running. The shorter your ground contact time , the less chance for injury.
date : November 27, 2005
author : mikericci
comments : 0
Focus on doing the drills and improving each week. Eventually you will go out for a run, look down, and see that your pace has improved, your heart rate is lower, and your cadence is over 90 rpm.
 
date : October 30, 2005
author : KenMierke
comments : 0
Smart athletes are taking a significant break from training to recharge for next year. What else can an athlete do during the next few months to improve next year’s performance?
date : April 10, 2005
author : Rich Strauss
comments : 0
The physics and physiology of high and low cadence cycling. Both low and high cadence work are useful for increasing your “cadence comfort,” or your comfort within a wide range of cadences.
 
date : January 30, 2005
author : Glenn
comments : 0
Many of us do not enjoy the ‘pleasures’ of training on a stationery trainer. “Boring”, ”mind-numbing”, “a drag” are three phrases often associated with indoor trainers.