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off season losses
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 2016-02-19 4:30 PM |
 439   nashville, Tennessee |  Subject: off season lossesJust wondering what type of losses in fitness, if any, you experience during your off season. This off season I cut back more than I ever have previously and of course lost a good amount of fitness. But I also must say in the previous years off seasons I've worked hard and it never really resulted in significant improvements. So to be specific, I have used trainerroad over the last year, and at the end of last season my FTP was 272. I finally decided to get back to trainerroad and so I did an FTP test and it had fallen to 236. That seems like a drastic fall in power. Has anyone ever experienced this and was it hard to get it back, did it come back quicker, etc? When I first started trainerroad in mid March last year, my FTP was 258, then after a couple months I got up to 272. So I'm afraid with a FTP of 236 that I'm way behind where I was last year. |
| 2016-02-19 6:17 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
| Subject: RE: off season losses That sounds like a reasonable drop for someone who has cut back a lot for several months and tries to test again as soon as they get back into it. Back when I used to do a December marathon, I would be at peak cycling fitness in August, then basically ride 2x a week (one 20ish mile ride and one 30-40 mile ride) up till end of October, then in November to mid December I would only ride once a week (about 40 miles). I'd say in that time span, it was normal for my FTP to drop about 10-15%. After about a week of recovery after the marathon, I'd go back to riding 3x a week. Usually took about 3 weeks or so before I'd start to feel back in the grove again and slowly start building back up to previous fitness. I'd say after about 3 months I could get pretty close to where I was during previous year's racing season.
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| 2016-02-19 7:36 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Extreme Veteran 1332 | Subject: RE: off season losses Every time you lose fitness, it seems to come back quicker and quicker. Part of it is actual muscle atrophy, which will have to be rebuilt, and is slow. Part of it is simply the neurological responses which will come back a lot faster. Don't worry too much about what you lost though, just train smart, see how you progress, and have fun. If the time off has cost you too much, then perhaps keep up a little more in the next off season, as maintenance is a lot easier than building, but we all can benefit from a good solid break as well to sort of re-set our systems and perhaps re-build to be even stronger than before. |
| 2016-02-20 4:09 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Extreme Veteran 5722  | Subject: RE: off season losses Originally posted by mchadcota2 Just wondering what type of losses in fitness, if any, you experience during your off season. This off season I cut back more than I ever have previously and of course lost a good amount of fitness. But I also must say in the previous years off seasons I've worked hard and it never really resulted in significant improvements. So to be specific, I have used trainerroad over the last year, and at the end of last season my FTP was 272. I finally decided to get back to trainerroad and so I did an FTP test and it had fallen to 236. That seems like a drastic fall in power. Has anyone ever experienced this and was it hard to get it back, did it come back quicker, etc? When I first started trainerroad in mid March last year, my FTP was 258, then after a couple months I got up to 272. So I'm afraid with a FTP of 236 that I'm way behind where I was last year. In the past you have mentioned you measure your FTP using TR 2x8 protocol. If so, FOR ME, this number would come back relatively quickly I find it to be more of a measure of power at VO2max, which I find comes back quickly, rather than power at threshold. Every year when doing a 5 and 20min test, my 5' test comes back faster. As a matter of fact my Power At vo2max number comes back fast but stalls. There is only so much I can push up my VO2max unfortunately. Power at threshold usually continues to rise and that is the important one. |
| 2016-02-20 6:04 AM in reply to: #5168116 |
| 439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: off season losses Thanks guys. Yeah I do the 8 min test. And I think the biggest part is getting back to that mental toughness of being able to withstand the discomfort. I'm doing a base phase right now and it's so nice since they just push you a little. I DREAD the build phase cuz it's just SO mentally tough! |
| 2016-02-20 6:37 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: off season losses Originally posted by mchadcota2 Thanks guys. Yeah I do the 8 min test. And I think the biggest part is getting back to that mental toughness of being able to withstand the discomfort. I'm doing a base phase right now and it's so nice since they just push you a little. I DREAD the build phase cuz it's just SO mentally tough! just out of curiosity, what were your 2 8min numbers? |
| 2016-02-20 8:41 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 538 Brooklyn, New York | Subject: RE: off season losses Lost my wife this off season, should have a great race season coming up. Oh wait......fitnessss lossesss, ohhhhh |
| 2016-02-20 9:38 PM in reply to: #5168165 |
| 439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: off season losses Numbers were 271 and 255 |
| 2016-02-20 10:27 PM in reply to: #5168252 |
Member 622 Franklin, TN | Subject: RE: off season losses Btw, I was talking with some buddies that had done the 8 minute test. They had only gone through the first 8 minute interval and are now using that number to calculate their ftp. One of them said you only use the second interval if you screw up the first. From what I'm reading here, it looks like you're averaging the 2 efforts before applying the 90%. What do the experts suggest is the right methodology? |
| 2016-02-21 4:19 AM in reply to: JoelO |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: off season losses Originally posted by JoelO Btw, I was talking with some buddies that had done the 8 minute test. They had only gone through the first 8 minute interval and are now using that number to calculate their ftp. One of them said you only use the second interval if you screw up the first. From what I'm reading here, it looks like you're averaging the 2 efforts before applying the 90%. What do the experts suggest is the right methodology? I am not a fan of the 2x8 model. I know one guy that would definitely be overestimated by it and one gal that would be under. But if you're doing only one of the 8' then it's way over. For me it would be about 6% over. This means if I think I'm at threshold, I am well into VO2. |
| 2016-02-21 10:44 AM in reply to: #5168259 |
Member 622 Franklin, TN | Subject: RE: off season losses Thanks. That's what I suspected. I'd be hard-pressed to hold 90% of a single 8 minute effort for 1 hour. I'll try the 20 at 95%...ugh! |
| 2016-02-21 11:08 AM in reply to: JoelO |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: off season losses Originally posted by JoelO Thanks. That's what I suspected. I'd be hard-pressed to hold 90% of a single 8 minute effort for 1 hour. I'll try the 20 at 95%...ugh! If properly executed, a 5min and a 20min test will give you more information about yourself. You can always use 95% of the 20min number but the 5min number may give you insight if you should actually be using 92% or 96%. You'd be surprised how many people are actually 92%. IMO, the 5 and 20 (or even 3 and 20) is better than the 20min test and the 20min is better than the 2x8. A 1min test along with the 5 and 20 is even better. If you test properly, get an accurate number, then you can do some key workouts close to maximum and if you know you improve on them you know your FTP has improved. FTP testing is highly opinionated and people don't like doing it. |
| 2016-02-21 11:55 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 1332 | Subject: RE: off season losses I use the 5 and 20 protocol myself, and find the first few weeks of any season the numbers go up in a real hurry :p It's a great time trial style effort too!  Edited by dfquigley 2016-02-21 11:55 AM |
| 2016-02-21 12:20 PM in reply to: dfquigley |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: off season losses Originally posted by dfquigley I use the 5 and 20 protocol myself, and find the first few weeks of any season the numbers go up in a real hurry :p It's a great time trial style effort too! 5 being done on a separate days, correct ? One protocol is 5' and 20' separate days and use a CP formula The other is 5' all out, bit of rest, 20' all out and use 95%. |
| 2016-02-21 5:28 PM in reply to: marcag |
Extreme Veteran 1332 | Subject: RE: off season losses I've always done the 5, rest, 20 in one workout, I hadn't heard of using the 5 and 20 from separate workouts and then calculating from there, but I see how that could work too. |
| 2016-02-21 7:54 PM in reply to: dfquigley |
| 1055 | Subject: RE: off season losses For me, its those first few weeks that really kinda suck as mu body starts adapting to the load again, so it's important for me to not get discouraged. But yeah, it comes back quick. As far as the 8 minute test, I don't think it matters so long as you are consistent in using it. I let the program do the calculations and spit out my new FTP. Just got done with base I so I'm testing again tomorrow. I both look forward to and dredge those days all at the same time. |
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